(12-06-2021, 02:07 AM)Slayerd Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 11:40 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 10:17 PM)Slayerd Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 09:24 PM)Cath2020 Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 08:49 PM)Potato Wrote: The Nkuchuma male has to flee from Sabi Sands or he will be vivtim of the competition bewteen male lion coalition around. As a single male he does not have much of a possiblitys to either avoid or hold on in confrontation with other males. Othawa male could have do it, but his times 2018-2021 were easier than the current ones and I do not see Nkuchuma male repeating that. He is currently pinned in betweed PC males, Tumbelas and N'was and it is only matter of time before Mhangeni pride will bring attention to at least one of those coalitions and that could easly turn into disaster for Nkuchuma male.

As for N'was it seems they are in full control over the lands on which Birminghams used to operate in the past. Avocas also seemd to switch their movement further south avoiding further confrontations with N'was. It will be intresting to see how will look like further development of dynamic in Kambula pride and Birmingham coalition.

I think so.  He should flee while he still can.  I wouldn't be surprised if the lone Othawa Breakaway Male succumbed to injuries in an attack.  He all but disappeared off the radar!  Gone, not one clue as to where he is, if still alive, hiding out somewhere.  Four lions died/disappeared somewhat mysteriously this year recently in SS: Tsalala Lioness, Ximhungwe Sub, Styx Young Male, Othawa Breakaway Young Male.  

The PC Males seem to be biding their time, eliminating lions here and there, settling more permanently in the middle of such tumultuous territories.  I'm worried about the Tumbelas as well.  Those two males need to stick together and patrol regularly.

It is known what happened to the Styx Male and Tsalala lioness. The Styx Male died from a severed artery and the Tsalala lioness was probably killed by the PC males and we don't know what happened to the others in your list to say the PC Males did it. If the Styx Male was alive, the Nwalungu males would rule the west. They were constantly chasing the PC Males around. Unfortunately it was not meant to be and now NK male is alone

Well, this is if, but Plain Camps are younger than Nwalungu and back then that meant more than it would now, as they grow in strenght and confidence. Plain Camps are likely to grow into physically stronger males than Nwalungus would be (my guesstimation ofc) and it is not so clear who would get the uppe hand eventually. Nor whether they would even be rivals, PC might move on further with more competition or anything else we wouldn't predict might happen in that alternative universe (injuries and illness perhaps being a factor causing a butterfly effect).

I just hope Plain Camps are not that ruthless as it seems and won't have negative effect on lion population like Mapogos overall had, just in smaller scale. If they really killed Tsalala in a mating attempt that is not a promising sign. Genetic diversity wise their progeny would be great addition to Sabi Sands, they need to figure out how to succesfully reproduce and defend their cubs though, to replace lions meeting their demise because of them (population count of SS will fluctuate and Idk whether it is rather overpuplated or underpopulated, either way some progeny of theirs as a assummingly new source to the gene pool would be nice).

Off course you're just guessing however based on where they were and how the Nkuhuma and Styx Males were progressing, they would have ousted the 2 Plains Camp males and taken the west for themselves. It's not about alternative universes or guesstimations, it's about how unlucky the Nkuhuma male was and correcting the previous poster that it was not the PC males who killed the Styx Male. It's foolhardy to predict the Plains Camp Males becoming physically stronger males when that is merely as you said a guess. The PC males are younger and the two Nwalungu males would be 5 years old. They would have easily sent the two Plains Camp males off and taken Singita for themselves. The PC males would also have little chance to build their confidence when they've been pushed out unlike in the last few months where they've been left alone.

(12-06-2021, 01:40 PM)lionuk Wrote: Southern Pride lioness and her two cubs. They were all resting in the shade during the heat of the day and eventually moved into the thickets to perhaps find a cooler area. 
They are doing very well, and hopefully the N'was males come back to them and Styx Pride very soon. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

(12-06-2021, 03:39 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: Seems the sisters will keep being easily recognizable or at least the one on the first picture, she did not grew up from that obvious round shape of the head, appreciated marker! Perhaps she has bit of an "Ubuso" nose as well.

*This image is copyright of its original author

(12-06-2021, 04:50 PM)lionuk Wrote: One of the Plains Camp males grooming his brother
Credit: Singita Ebony Lodge

*This image is copyright of its original author

(12-06-2021, 06:26 PM)Mdz123 Wrote:

(12-06-2021, 04:50 PM)lionuk Wrote: One of the Plains Camp males grooming his brother
Credit: Singita Ebony Lodge

*This image is copyright of its original author

The Mantimahle bloodline is one of strongest in Kruger right now, alongside Matimbas and Avoca/Giraffes.

(12-06-2021, 06:26 PM)Mdz123 Wrote: The Mantimahle bloodline is one of strongest in Kruger right now, alongside Matimbas and Avoca/Giraffes.

(12-06-2021, 10:13 AM)Tonpa Wrote: Silver eye still holding on 
By Deon Wessels

(12-06-2021, 12:47 PM)Potato Wrote: Saying that Nwalungus would easly oust PC males is as much of a guess as saying that PC males would oust Nwalungus. There is no way to predict how those would match up on the long run. Initiallly Nwalungus has little advantage, but they were older and therefore had age advantage which would be gone on the long run. Later on tables could change easly. I would also put my pet on PC males on the long run to be more dominant duo, but that is just a guess as good as any other.

• It is with great sadness that we write about the news of the beautiful and strong Tsalala female lion’s passing. After many years of solitude and survival she was recently killed by the Plains Camp males along with two Nkuhuma lionesses and was found the next morning. Although there was nobody around to view the occurrence, the tracks and signs lead us to believe this was the case. It has been a wonderful time spent with this female and her now sub-adult daughter who thankfully survived the attack. Many hours were spent with these two lionesses who moved into Singita and spent a lot of their time moving up and down along the Sand River providing many guests with wonderful game viewing. With only her daughter to continue the Tsalala legacy, we can only hope she takes on the skills learnt by her mother and brings the pride back to life once again.
• The Plains Camp males are becoming more prominent in their movements across the property as the weeks go by and their echoing roars can often be heard throughout the night. It is apparent that they are expanding their territory as they move from areas north of the river and down towards central parts of Singita. The two of them have often been viewed with two of the Nkuhuma lionesses (Amber-eyed female & Ridge-nosed female) who also seem to have broken away from their pride and are spending more time on their own, exploring the property alongside the Plains Camp males.
• The Mhangene pride continue to seek refuge in the far reaches of the property, however they remain strong and vigilant of the new males moving around the property and are keeping healthy whilst the younger members of the pride grow.
  

(12-06-2021, 03:24 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:

(12-06-2021, 02:07 AM)Slayerd Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 11:40 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 10:17 PM)Slayerd Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 09:24 PM)Cath2020 Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 08:49 PM)Potato Wrote: The Nkuchuma male has to flee from Sabi Sands or he will be vivtim of the competition bewteen male lion coalition around. As a single male he does not have much of a possiblitys to either avoid or hold on in confrontation with other males. Othawa male could have do it, but his times 2018-2021 were easier than the current ones and I do not see Nkuchuma male repeating that. He is currently pinned in betweed PC males, Tumbelas and N'was and it is only matter of time before Mhangeni pride will bring attention to at least one of those coalitions and that could easly turn into disaster for Nkuchuma male.

As for N'was it seems they are in full control over the lands on which Birminghams used to operate in the past. Avocas also seemd to switch their movement further south avoiding further confrontations with N'was. It will be intresting to see how will look like further development of dynamic in Kambula pride and Birmingham coalition.

I think so.  He should flee while he still can.  I wouldn't be surprised if the lone Othawa Breakaway Male succumbed to injuries in an attack.  He all but disappeared off the radar!  Gone, not one clue as to where he is, if still alive, hiding out somewhere.  Four lions died/disappeared somewhat mysteriously this year recently in SS: Tsalala Lioness, Ximhungwe Sub, Styx Young Male, Othawa Breakaway Young Male.  

The PC Males seem to be biding their time, eliminating lions here and there, settling more permanently in the middle of such tumultuous territories.  I'm worried about the Tumbelas as well.  Those two males need to stick together and patrol regularly.

It is known what happened to the Styx Male and Tsalala lioness. The Styx Male died from a severed artery and the Tsalala lioness was probably killed by the PC males and we don't know what happened to the others in your list to say the PC Males did it. If the Styx Male was alive, the Nwalungu males would rule the west. They were constantly chasing the PC Males around. Unfortunately it was not meant to be and now NK male is alone

Well, this is if, but Plain Camps are younger than Nwalungu and back then that meant more than it would now, as they grow in strenght and confidence. Plain Camps are likely to grow into physically stronger males than Nwalungus would be (my guesstimation ofc) and it is not so clear who would get the uppe hand eventually. Nor whether they would even be rivals, PC might move on further with more competition or anything else we wouldn't predict might happen in that alternative universe (injuries and illness perhaps being a factor causing a butterfly effect).

I just hope Plain Camps are not that ruthless as it seems and won't have negative effect on lion population like Mapogos overall had, just in smaller scale. If they really killed Tsalala in a mating attempt that is not a promising sign. Genetic diversity wise their progeny would be great addition to Sabi Sands, they need to figure out how to succesfully reproduce and defend their cubs though, to replace lions meeting their demise because of them (population count of SS will fluctuate and Idk whether it is rather overpuplated or underpopulated, either way some progeny of theirs as a assummingly new source to the gene pool would be nice).

Off course you're just guessing however based on where they were and how the Nkuhuma and Styx Males were progressing, they would have ousted the 2 Plains Camp males and taken the west for themselves. It's not about alternative universes or guesstimations, it's about how unlucky the Nkuhuma male was and correcting the previous poster that it was not the PC males who killed the Styx Male. It's foolhardy to predict the Plains Camp Males becoming physically stronger males when that is merely as you said a guess. The PC males are younger and the two Nwalungu males would be 5 years old. They would have easily sent the two Plains Camp males off and taken Singita for themselves. The PC males would also have little chance to build their confidence when they've been pushed out unlike in the last few months where they've been left alone.

I didn't say PC males killed Styx.

LOL, such strong words. Obviously the age cap matters but it is relative to actual age. Once borth duos would be in their prime, if they'd live long enough, which didn't happen, then it is likely Mantimahle's sons would grow up into more impressive specimen (assuming all keeping themselves in good condition, big if) which doesn't necessary relate confidence, fighting ability and experience, but physical strenght and size is certainly good thing to have. Claiming Nwalungus would push out anoher coalition is quite far fetched, they didn't even asser themselves against Mahngeni pride, granted as they would age they would likely do better. But at the time of Styx' death, they were just two nomadic males with bit of a history we were familiar with due to them spending virtually whole their lives in Sabi Sands. If Styx did not die, things would be different but is futile to say how, as it is very likely some unforeseen or unlikely thing would happen and small changes of course of history can lead to significant differences. It is almost certain things would not go the way we see them likely to go, as with lions they somehow rarely do. But that is the only thing we have, trying to guess what the probable future development of lion dynamcis could take place, all things considered, but we can't claim n odefinitive answers as quite often something unexpected happens or other factors we didn't count with might emerge. For all we know, maybe 5th Mantimahle and co. will travel further west into western sector and become a decisive factor there - as well as they can return back to Kruger and we might not see them again - or something else.

Claiming that Styx and Nkuhuma would simply chase off Plain Camps and become dominant in Singita by virtue of being oldest prideless coalition there is quite a stretch. Afaik we don't know about any hostile encounter between the two duos after the initial one when Plain Camps seems receptive to joining up with the older two, while those were having none of it. There is a lto of place in that are for namodic males to exist for some time and as long as males are not dominant over some females (or at least intrrested and contending for them) there is not much of a reason to be overly hostile to other nomads. It is not like Nwalungus were second coming of Majingilanes, opportunisticly doing preemptive strikes to cripple possibly future competition (like wth Selatis).

(12-07-2021, 03:43 AM)Slayerd Wrote:

(12-06-2021, 03:24 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:

(12-06-2021, 02:07 AM)Slayerd Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 11:40 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 10:17 PM)Slayerd Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 09:24 PM)Cath2020 Wrote:

(12-05-2021, 08:49 PM)Potato Wrote: The Nkuchuma male has to flee from Sabi Sands or he will be vivtim of the competition bewteen male lion coalition around. As a single male he does not have much of a possiblitys to either avoid or hold on in confrontation with other males. Othawa male could have do it, but his times 2018-2021 were easier than the current ones and I do not see Nkuchuma male repeating that. He is currently pinned in betweed PC males, Tumbelas and N'was and it is only matter of time before Mhangeni pride will bring attention to at least one of those coalitions and that could easly turn into disaster for Nkuchuma male.

As for N'was it seems they are in full control over the lands on which Birminghams used to operate in the past. Avocas also seemd to switch their movement further south avoiding further confrontations with N'was. It will be intresting to see how will look like further development of dynamic in Kambula pride and Birmingham coalition.

I think so.  He should flee while he still can.  I wouldn't be surprised if the lone Othawa Breakaway Male succumbed to injuries in an attack.  He all but disappeared off the radar!  Gone, not one clue as to where he is, if still alive, hiding out somewhere.  Four lions died/disappeared somewhat mysteriously this year recently in SS: Tsalala Lioness, Ximhungwe Sub, Styx Young Male, Othawa Breakaway Young Male.  

The PC Males seem to be biding their time, eliminating lions here and there, settling more permanently in the middle of such tumultuous territories.  I'm worried about the Tumbelas as well.  Those two males need to stick together and patrol regularly.

It is known what happened to the Styx Male and Tsalala lioness. The Styx Male died from a severed artery and the Tsalala lioness was probably killed by the PC males and we don't know what happened to the others in your list to say the PC Males did it. If the Styx Male was alive, the Nwalungu males would rule the west. They were constantly chasing the PC Males around. Unfortunately it was not meant to be and now NK male is alone

Well, this is if, but Plain Camps are younger than Nwalungu and back then that meant more than it would now, as they grow in strenght and confidence. Plain Camps are likely to grow into physically stronger males than Nwalungus would be (my guesstimation ofc) and it is not so clear who would get the uppe hand eventually. Nor whether they would even be rivals, PC might move on further with more competition or anything else we wouldn't predict might happen in that alternative universe (injuries and illness perhaps being a factor causing a butterfly effect).

I just hope Plain Camps are not that ruthless as it seems and won't have negative effect on lion population like Mapogos overall had, just in smaller scale. If they really killed Tsalala in a mating attempt that is not a promising sign. Genetic diversity wise their progeny would be great addition to Sabi Sands, they need to figure out how to succesfully reproduce and defend their cubs though, to replace lions meeting their demise because of them (population count of SS will fluctuate and Idk whether it is rather overpuplated or underpopulated, either way some progeny of theirs as a assummingly new source to the gene pool would be nice).

Off course you're just guessing however based on where they were and how the Nkuhuma and Styx Males were progressing, they would have ousted the 2 Plains Camp males and taken the west for themselves. It's not about alternative universes or guesstimations, it's about how unlucky the Nkuhuma male was and correcting the previous poster that it was not the PC males who killed the Styx Male. It's foolhardy to predict the Plains Camp Males becoming physically stronger males when that is merely as you said a guess. The PC males are younger and the two Nwalungu males would be 5 years old. They would have easily sent the two Plains Camp males off and taken Singita for themselves. The PC males would also have little chance to build their confidence when they've been pushed out unlike in the last few months where they've been left alone.

I didn't say PC males killed Styx.

LOL, such strong words. Obviously the age cap matters but it is relative to actual age. Once borth duos would be in their prime, if they'd live long enough, which didn't happen, then it is likely Mantimahle's sons would grow up into more impressive specimen (assuming all keeping themselves in good condition, big if) which doesn't necessary relate confidence, fighting ability and experience, but physical strenght and size is certainly good thing to have. Claiming Nwalungus would push out anoher coalition is quite far fetched, they didn't even asser themselves against Mahngeni pride, granted as they would age they would likely do better. But at the time of Styx' death, they were just two nomadic males with bit of a history we were familiar with due to them spending virtually whole their lives in Sabi Sands. If Styx did not die, things would be different but is futile to say how, as it is very likely some unforeseen or unlikely thing would happen and small changes of course of history can lead to significant differences. It is almost certain things would not go the way we see them likely to go, as with lions they somehow rarely do. But that is the only thing we have, trying to guess what the probable future development of lion dynamcis could take place, all things considered, but we can't claim n odefinitive answers as quite often something unexpected happens or other factors we didn't count with might emerge. For all we know, maybe 5th Mantimahle and co. will travel further west into western sector and become a decisive factor there - as well as they can return back to Kruger and we might not see them again - or something else.

Claiming that Styx and Nkuhuma would simply chase off Plain Camps and become dominant in Singita by virtue of being oldest prideless coalition there is quite a stretch. Afaik we don't know about any hostile encounter between the two duos after the initial one when Plain Camps seems receptive to joining up with the older two, while those were having none of it. There is a lto of place in that are for namodic males to exist for some time and as long as males are not dominant over some females (or at least intrrested and contending for them) there is not much of a reason to be overly hostile to other nomads. It is not like Nwalungus were second coming of Majingilanes, opportunisticly doing preemptive strikes to cripple possibly future competition (like wth Selatis).

You seem to have your information wrong, might want to read up on the Singita reports. The Styx and Nkuhuma chased the PC males more than once and it seems like all of you are using less logic of lion dynamics and more bias. Their is not a huge difference between the Styx Male and PC males, only half a year and he looked more grown than they do currently. He would have possibly been as developed as the Torchwood Male currently is. There is no reason whatsoever to turn into who would win in primes when once again, all of your points are biased and not about how lion dynamics work. Based on their age and the constant interactions between the Mangheni and Nwalungu males and the age of 5 which is an average of when lions become dominant, it's highly likely the Nwalungu males would have dominated Singita and pushed out the 2 PC Males.