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+---- Thread: Smilodon populator (/topic-smilodon-populator)
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 09-22-2021
(06-28-2021, 02:20 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Mendez-Alzola reported this table on S. populator skulls:Hi tigerluver, could that 408.4 mm skull have been a 450 kg specimen, and also do you know of any websites where i can find the fossils of the largest specimens ever found of populator
*This image is copyright of its original author
The 10-1 skull is huge, at 408.4 mm. That's larger than the recent 2020 skull. However, I cannot seem to find this larger skull referenced in the 2020 paper or their appendix. Any thoughts?
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 09-22-2021
(09-22-2021, 01:35 AM)jrocks Wrote:(06-28-2021, 02:20 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Mendez-Alzola reported this table on S. populator skulls:Hi tigerluver, could that 408.4 mm skull have been a 450 kg specimen, and also do you know of any websites where i can find the fossils of the largest specimens ever found of populator
*This image is copyright of its original author
The 10-1 skull is huge, at 408.4 mm. That's larger than the recent 2020 skull. However, I cannot seem to find this larger skull referenced in the 2020 paper or their appendix. Any thoughts?
Hi there! Very much possible that specimen achieved that weight in my opinion, yes.
There is unfortunately no single site. That skull is the largest I have read of and the largest humerus I have read of is 405 mm long (Kurten and Werdelin 1990), which likely represents another of the largest S. populator.
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 09-22-2021
(09-22-2021, 07:04 AM)tigerluver Wrote:(09-22-2021, 01:35 AM)jrocks Wrote:(06-28-2021, 02:20 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Mendez-Alzola reported this table on S. populator skulls:Hi tigerluver, could that 408.4 mm skull have been a 450 kg specimen, and also do you know of any websites where i can find the fossils of the largest specimens ever found of populator
*This image is copyright of its original author
The 10-1 skull is huge, at 408.4 mm. That's larger than the recent 2020 skull. However, I cannot seem to find this larger skull referenced in the 2020 paper or their appendix. Any thoughts?
Hi there! Very much possible that specimen achieved that weight in my opinion, yes.
There is unfortunately no single site. That skull is the largest I have read of and the largest humerus I have read of is 405 mm long (Kurten and Werdelin 1990), which likely represents another of the largest S. populator.
oh ok, thanks
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 10-02-2021
also there was some guy who posted on the smilodon carnivora page of a 517 kg populator specimen, he also said that there was a specimen estimated by peter lund to be more than 500 kg that was found in Lagoa Santa, MG, Brazil, but unfortunately the one that was estimated to be 500 kg found by lund was destroyed in a huge fire in the National Museum of Rio Dejanero in 2018. Do you guys think that 517 kg specimen is a bit of an overestimation, I personally kinda think it maybe is because of its humerus being 372 mm in length which is shorter than the longest populator humeri found so far but, im not an expert so i cant really say that, and also does anyone know of any pictures of that 500 kg specimen found by peter lund, if no one can find any pics of it then its fine i was just curious abt it
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 10-25-2021
also @tigerluver ,
what was the least circumference of that 460 mm american lion femur, i wonder how it compared to a populator femur
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 10-25-2021
(10-25-2021, 08:59 AM)jrocks Wrote: also @tigerluver ,
what was the least circumference of that 460 mm american lion femur, i wonder how it compared to a populator femur
Merriam and Stock don't give a circumference but we can calculate it using the midshaft diameters and the equation for the circumference of an ellipse (41 x 37.6) which is 123.52 mm. However, the 455 mm is more robust with a circumference of 137.95 mm using its diameters (45.3 x 42.5).
The circumference to length ratio of S. populator is quite a bit more with Christiansen and Harris (2005) having a femur that is only 390.2 mm long but 134.5 mm in circumference. Do note that the circumference comparison between Smilodon and Panthera is not comparing apples to apples because Smilodon has more weight loaded over the forelegs, resulting in the femurs being thinner for the total body weight. Conversely, their humeri would be thicker than expected for the total body weight for the same reason.
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 10-26-2021
(10-25-2021, 10:18 AM)tigerluver Wrote:(10-25-2021, 08:59 AM)jrocks Wrote: also @tigerluver ,
what was the least circumference of that 460 mm american lion femur, i wonder how it compared to a populator femur
Merriam and Stock don't give a circumference but we can calculate it using the midshaft diameters and the equation for the circumference of an ellipse (41 x 37.6) which is 123.52 mm. However, the 455 mm is more robust with a circumference of 137.95 mm using its diameters (45.3 x 42.5).
The circumference to length ratio of S. populator is quite a bit more with Christiansen and Harris (2005) having a femur that is only 390.2 mm long but 134.5 mm in circumference. Do note that the circumference comparison between Smilodon and Panthera is not comparing apples to apples because Smilodon has more weight loaded over the forelegs, resulting in the femurs being thinner for the total body weight. Conversely, their humeri would be thicker than expected for the total body weight for the same reason.
oh wow there was a 390 mm populator femur that was 134 mm in least circumference i never knew that, its strange that the 390 mm femur is proportionally a tiny bit more robust than that smilodon bonaerensis 46 femur that is 408 mm long but is 131 mm in circumference, why is it that 390 mm femur is a tiny bit more in least circumference despite being shorter than the bonaerensis 46 femur
RE: Smilodon populator - Sully - 11-01-2021
Smilodon populator and her two cubs sizing up a lone Holmesina (by @DhruvFranklin on twitter)
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Smilodon populator - T-RexWins - 12-31-2021
@tigerluver
Regarding your post #16 on thread 2, why is the S. populator femur that much shorter than the Tiger femur? Is it from a very small S. populator specimen? Or is it because S. populator had shorter hind legs compared to front limbs? Would a very large S. populator specimen's femur be of equal height to the Tiger femur?
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-06-2022
(12-31-2021, 08:49 PM)T-RexWins Wrote: @tigerluver
Regarding your post #16 on thread 2, why is the S. populator femur that much shorter than the Tiger femur? Is it from a very small S. populator specimen? Or is it because S. populator had shorter hind legs compared to front limbs? Would a very large S. populator specimen's femur be of equal height to the Tiger femur?
populator did have proportionally short hind legs compared to its front limbs and i think the 382 mm populator femur is of a below average specimen, because the femur of smilodon bonaerensis 46 which i think is just barely less than an average populator in size has a 408 mm femur, although tigerluver has the best answer
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 01-06-2022
(12-31-2021, 08:49 PM)T-RexWins Wrote: @tigerluver
Regarding your post #16 on thread 2, why is the S. populator femur that much shorter than the Tiger femur? Is it from a very small S. populator specimen? Or is it because S. populator had shorter hind legs compared to front limbs? Would a very large S. populator specimen's femur be of equal height to the Tiger femur?
@jrocks is on point. S. populator has severely reduced hindlimbs. The forelimb/hindlimb ratio is around 1.08 (P. leo/tigris are around 0.90), so the hindlimbs are proportionately 20% shorter than the forelimbs as compared to extant Panthera.
The type specimen of S. populator is odd in that it's skull length is rather small but its postcranial remains are actually toward the upper quartiles of what we have recovered. If we assume the holotype skeleton's ratios can be applied to the largest skulls of the species, then the Uruguay giant of GSL 392 mm has a femur of about ~460 mm. There is an even larger reported skull in Mendez-Alzola of 408.4 mm, which would have that 480 mm femur. There is a hefty degree of uncertainty in these estimation given the first sentence of this paragraph, nonetheless it's the best we have.
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-09-2022
(01-06-2022, 09:26 AM)tigerluver Wrote:Hi @tigerluver(12-31-2021, 08:49 PM)T-RexWins Wrote: @tigerluver
Regarding your post #16 on thread 2, why is the S. populator femur that much shorter than the Tiger femur? Is it from a very small S. populator specimen? Or is it because S. populator had shorter hind legs compared to front limbs? Would a very large S. populator specimen's femur be of equal height to the Tiger femur?
@jrocks is on point. S. populator has severely reduced hindlimbs. The forelimb/hindlimb ratio is around 1.08 (P. leo/tigris are around 0.90), so the hindlimbs are proportionately 20% shorter than the forelimbs as compared to extant Panthera.
The type specimen of S. populator is odd in that it's skull length is rather small but its postcranial remains are actually toward the upper quartiles of what we have recovered. If we assume the holotype skeleton's ratios can be applied to the largest skulls of the species, then the Uruguay giant of GSL 392 mm has a femur of about ~460 mm. There is an even larger reported skull in Mendez-Alzola of 408.4 mm, which would have that 480 mm femur. There is a hefty degree of uncertainty in these estimation given the first sentence of this paragraph, nonetheless it's the best we have.
how much did an average smilodon populator weigh?
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 01-14-2022
Hi @jrocks, sorry for the delay. 250 kg to 300 kg for males, depending on the climate at that point is probably fair.
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-14-2022
(01-14-2022, 06:27 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Hi @jrocks, sorry for the delay. 250 kg to 300 kg for males, depending on the climate at that point is probably fair.
oh thats fine
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 03-06-2022
Smilodon populators fighting in Museo Argentino de Ciencias Naturales “Bernardino Rivadavia” in Buenos Aires, Argentina
Credit to Rafael Urrutia
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author