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+----- Thread: Bear Strength (/topic-bear-strength)
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-01-2016
(06-01-2016, 03:03 AM)brotherbear Wrote:(06-01-2016, 02:58 AM)Polar Wrote: Brotherbear,
That 20x ratio is for HORIZONTAL pulling strength (which makes more sense), not vertical pulling strength.
OK, and what can a man pull ( according to this test ) HORIZONTAL ?
A man was not tested in this experiment, only bears.
But from my guess (with no slippery surface or wheels), the maximal horizontal pulling strength among several types of athletes would be:
Me at 231 pounds: 894.3 pounds exact (horizontally pulled a moveable backshed that wasn't tied to the ground, and got people to lift and weigh it on a crane scale for one of my clients.)
Professional Strongman of 360 pounds: 1100-1200 pounds?
Lightweight Powerlifter of 130 pounds: 700 pounds?
Average Man of 180 pounds: 250 pounds?
Weakest Man Ever: -1 pounds? (Just kidding on this one.)
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-01-2016
Testing the strength of an animal is certainly not an exact science. For one thing, how do you get an animal to "give it his all" ? I remember watching, as can still likely be found on video, the strength test for a grizzly which easily pushed over a dumpster. This bear was never angry or eager nor showing any emotions which might trigger his full exertions. Such tests tell us very little.
The true test is when a grizzly drags the carcass of a bison some distance or, as I have seen on a documentary, a grizzly pulls the water-logged carcass of a bison out of a riverbank, which had not survived the winter. There was a "drop-off" at the edge meaning that the carcass had to be pulled uphill. Or a grizzly excavating a hole deep enough to bury a carcass or to dig a den. Grizzlies have been observed dragging the carcass of a steer, a horse, or an elk up the steep side of a mountain. Grizzlies have been known to tear into the side of log cabins or through sliding steel garage doors. The push-strength of a grizzly is greater than his pull-strength. There is no denying the strength of a bear.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-01-2016
That is true, brotherbear. People usually assume that an animal's strength hits its max when the animal stops moving the object.
In reality, the animal is just curious or investigating such as cases where bears rattle a 700-pound dumpster to detect certain substances or food types, and people assume the bears can't tilt or lift it. But when the bear is angered...
I think there is a video where a polar bear pulls up a 2.5 ton bull walrus straight out of the Arctic ice/ocean. The bear wasn't really trying to aggressively tug; it was just trying to carefully free the walrus out of the water while trying to maintain its grip.
I have seen big, muscular people turn surprised when an angered kid with mental illness flips over a filing cabinet or pounds a hole on a side of a metal refrigerator (my third male cousin has degenerative autism and myogenesis, a double-muscle condition.)
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-01-2016
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-01-2016
Post #64 is from: http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-01-2016
Quote from post #42: Man Meets Grizzly by Young and Beyers.
Old plainsmen and trappers often debate which was more powerful, the buffalo or the grizzly bear. Both were fearless titans. There are more accounts of grizzlies killing buffalo - perhaps the expected outcome, in view of the weapons and tactics employed by both animals.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-01-2016
http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
Bears typically kill using brute force and do not seem to exhibit any stereotyped killing postures or behaviours as seen in canids and felids (R. Boertje, pers. comm.; J. Hechtel, pers. comm.). Polar bears and brown bears have been observed to attack their prey both with bites and crushing forepaw slaps, apparently to whatever region of the prey’s body is accessible (Murie, 1985; Boertje et al., 1988; Case & Stevenson, 1991; M. Ramsay, pers. comm; J. Hechtel, pers. comm.).
Sacco, T. and Van Valkenburgh, B. (2004), Ecomorphological indicators of feeding behaviour in the bears (Carnivora: Ursidae). Journal of Zoology, 263: 41–54.
RE: Bear Strength - Pckts - 06-01-2016
(06-01-2016, 03:34 AM)Polar Wrote:Depends on what they are pulling...(06-01-2016, 03:03 AM)brotherbear Wrote:(06-01-2016, 02:58 AM)Polar Wrote: Brotherbear,
That 20x ratio is for HORIZONTAL pulling strength (which makes more sense), not vertical pulling strength.
OK, and what can a man pull ( according to this test ) HORIZONTAL ?
A man was not tested in this experiment, only bears.
But from my guess (with no slippery surface or wheels), the maximal horizontal pulling strength among several types of athletes would be:
Me at 231 pounds: 894.3 pounds exact (horizontally pulled a moveable backshed that wasn't tied to the ground, and got people to lift and weigh it on a crane scale for one of my clients.)
Professional Strongman of 360 pounds: 1100-1200 pounds?
Lightweight Powerlifter of 130 pounds: 700 pounds?
Average Man of 180 pounds: 250 pounds?
Weakest Man Ever: -1 pounds? (Just kidding on this one.)
Juli Moody pulled a 25,000lb truck for 75feet in 35 seconds
Kevin Fast (Canada) pulled a CC-177 Globemaster III, weighing 188.83 tonnes (416,299 lb), a distance of 8.8 m (28 ft 10.46 in) at Canadian Forces Base in Trenton, Ontario, Canada, on 17 September 2009.
But these of course are on wheels so once you get the momentum going its easier to pull but they still must move them from a standstill position so they need to be able to pull this weight.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-01-2016
I agree with pckts. What man could drag the dead carcass of, let's say a steer, a moose, or a bison? What man could drag a carcass of an elk or a steer up the side of a mountain?
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-02-2016
(06-01-2016, 11:44 PM)brotherbear Wrote: I agree with pckts. What man could drag the dead carcass of, let's say a steer, a moose, or a bison? What man could drag a carcass of an elk or a steer up the side of a mountain?
A strongman, the strongest of wrestlers, and some few "wildmen" who are inexplicably strong should be able to horizontally drag a 1000-1200 pound steer or moose across a grassfield. An average one-ton bison? No way in hell.
I need further confirmation with the second question. By "up the side," do you mean a vertical drag, a diagonal drag, etc...?
RE: Bear Strength - Pckts - 06-02-2016
Agreed Polar, and if we are talking about a one ton animal being vertically dragged up a mountain side, that isn't going to be some 85kg bear or big cat, that is going to be a large animals, 185kg plus animal, and of course lb for lb a big cat or bear is stronger than a human so to accomplish such a feat you would probably need a man upwards of 600-700lbs and is as strong as an ox.
But if a man can pull 188tons of plane, he can at least budge the carcass, but we are talking about .001% of the entire human population compared to an averaged sized bear.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-02-2016
There is likely a lot of details in those "strongman stunts" we are not aware of. But, I will let that slide... as for the grizzly, I have read about 20 or 30 books within the past several years and have acquired this opinion, and not mine alone... this is not science as the measuring of animal strength is not an exact science... I believe that the bear is the strongest animal of his size and... no bear is pound for pound as strong as a grizzly. I believe that any animal stronger than a grizzly has a substantial size advantage.
grizzly... I am referring of course to a fully-mature male.
animal... I am referring to terrestrial mammals.
*just my personal opinion - where I stand. I'm sure that there are many opposing opinions here and that is alright.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-02-2016
(06-02-2016, 12:54 AM)Pckts Wrote: Agreed Polar, and if we are talking about a one ton animal being vertically dragged up a mountain side, that isn't going to be some 85kg bear or big cat, that is going to be a large animals, 185kg plus animal, and of course lb for lb a big cat or bear is stronger than a human so to accomplish such a feat you would probably need a man upwards of 600-700lbs and is as strong as an ox.
But if a man can pull 188tons of plane, he can at least budge the carcass, but we are talking about .001% of the entire human population compared to an averaged sized bear.
Yeah, budge the carcass half an inch, but not any more.
387-kg times 3 = 1161-kg or 2559 pounds, which is more than a US ton. A bear would still struggle with the carcass upwards, since the carcass is obviously not a barbell where all the weight is symmetrical; the head, neck, and behind portions of the carcass would droop lower than the abdomen (if the bear carried it there). Unequal weights are often harder to pull up.
So yes, an 85-kg brown bear can vertically-drag that carcass on a ledge, but with very extreme struggle.
RE: Bear Strength - Pckts - 06-02-2016
(06-02-2016, 02:42 AM)Polar Wrote:I would seriously doubt an 85kg bear could drag 1161kg up hill, in fact, there is no land mammal in the bears terrain that even weighs that much.(06-02-2016, 12:54 AM)Pckts Wrote: Agreed Polar, and if we are talking about a one ton animal being vertically dragged up a mountain side, that isn't going to be some 85kg bear or big cat, that is going to be a large animals, 185kg plus animal, and of course lb for lb a big cat or bear is stronger than a human so to accomplish such a feat you would probably need a man upwards of 600-700lbs and is as strong as an ox.
But if a man can pull 188tons of plane, he can at least budge the carcass, but we are talking about .001% of the entire human population compared to an averaged sized bear.
Yeah, budge the carcass half an inch, but not any more.
387-kg times 3 = 1161-kg or 2559 pounds, which is more than a US ton. A bear would still struggle with the carcass upwards, since the carcass is obviously not a barbell where all the weight is symmetrical; the head, neck, and behind portions of the carcass would droop lower than the abdomen (if the bear carried it there). Unequal weights are often harder to pull up.
So yes, an 85-kg brown bear can vertically-drag that carcass on a ledge, but with very extreme struggle.
In fact, I would have to see an account of bear dragging a smaller adult bull bison or moose before I would even think of agreeing to that. Not to mention the absolute rarity of predation on the species mentioned as well as the bears needed to accomplish such a feat.
Here is a Large Bear (much larger than 85kg) dragging a moose cow, a young one at that on flat surface with ice and yet it certainly doesn't look to be doing it easy, does it? Not to mention that he only drags it a few feet, could of dragged it further, sure but its no easy task for him.
Certainly not easy enough to drag something triple or quadruple its weight up a vertical hillside, could a larger bear accomplish this task, yes I think so but these animals have limits.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-02-2016
It appears to me that rather than having difficulty in dragging the carcass, he was nervous about the nearby people. He kept stopping to look about nervously. As for an 85 kg ( 187 pound ) grizzly - that is a mere cub.