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+----- Thread: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars (/topic-modern-weights-and-measurements-of-jaguars)
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - ravager - 10-27-2023
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 10-27-2023
(10-27-2023, 04:43 PM)ravager Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
These data seem to include together weights from the Atlantic Forest and the Upper Paraná wetlands, as well as weights that do not come from recent scientific sources. To get a more detailed and reliable look at weights for jaguars from this region take a look at our online spreadsheet.
The idea that a modern Atlantic Forest jaguar weighs 90 kg on average is comical, with all due respect. No jaguar from the AF proper has surpassed 100 kg under the scientific literature. The Atlantic Forest has been greatly degraded and only a small remnant of it remains. Jaguars and their prey are critically endangered there due to overhunting and habitat loss. Important jaguar prey like white-lipped peccaries has dissapeared from areas close to Iguazú, for example, so jaguars have been going through a process of size-reduction as a result.
Atlantic Forest jaguars, without counting the Upper Paraná Wetlands which is not the same type of eco-region, are not bigger than those from the Chaco or Cerrado.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - ravager - 10-27-2023
(10-27-2023, 05:22 PM)Balam Wrote:(10-27-2023, 04:43 PM)ravager Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
These data seem to include together weights from the Atlantic Forest and the Upper Paraná wetlands, as well as weights that do not come from recent scientific sources. To get a more detailed and reliable look at weights for jaguars from this region take a look at our online spreadsheet.
The idea that a modern Atlantic Forest jaguar weighs 90 kg on average is comical, with all due respect. No jaguar from the AF proper has surpassed 100 kg under the scientific literature. The Atlantic Forest has been greatly degraded and only a small remnant of it remains. Jaguars and their prey are critically endangered there due to overhunting and habitat loss. Important jaguar prey like white-lipped peccaries has dissapeared from areas close to Iguazú, for example, so jaguars have been going through a process of size-reduction as a result.
Atlantic Forest jaguars, without counting the Upper Paraná Wetlands which is not the same type of eco-region, are not bigger than those from the Chaco or Cerrado.
I simply just found it interesting. I'm wondering how and why the individuals of 112kg and such from the 1990s and early 2000s are not used here. Considering that the creator of this table did indeed cite his sources regarding the weights of these individuals.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 10-27-2023
(10-27-2023, 10:12 PM)ravager Wrote:(10-27-2023, 05:22 PM)Balam Wrote:(10-27-2023, 04:43 PM)ravager Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
These data seem to include together weights from the Atlantic Forest and the Upper Paraná wetlands, as well as weights that do not come from recent scientific sources. To get a more detailed and reliable look at weights for jaguars from this region take a look at our online spreadsheet.
The idea that a modern Atlantic Forest jaguar weighs 90 kg on average is comical, with all due respect. No jaguar from the AF proper has surpassed 100 kg under the scientific literature. The Atlantic Forest has been greatly degraded and only a small remnant of it remains. Jaguars and their prey are critically endangered there due to overhunting and habitat loss. Important jaguar prey like white-lipped peccaries has dissapeared from areas close to Iguazú, for example, so jaguars have been going through a process of size-reduction as a result.
Atlantic Forest jaguars, without counting the Upper Paraná Wetlands which is not the same type of eco-region, are not bigger than those from the Chaco or Cerrado.
I simply just found it interesting. I'm wondering how and why the individuals of 112kg and such from the 1990s and early 2000s are not used here. Considering that the creator of this table did indeed cite his sources regarding the weights of these individuals.
They are included, but the difference is that we are treating them as two distinct populations. Check the "Upper Paraná" and "Atlantic Forest" tabs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-K1IffPe7meDPhh2RUWSIzfTucVPjKWv4f63qGzD8SM/edit#gid=906471670. This was done under the advice of the late Dr. Crawshaw who gave us a lot of information about jaguars from the UPW.
The 112 kg male belongs to the Upper Paraná wetland ecosystem which is distinct from the Atlantic Forest in terms of biome, even if some sources include it inside the broader AF region. The Upper Paraná is more accurately a transitional eco-region between the Cerrado and Atlantic Forest and is more similar to the Pantanal, that's why the jaguars there grow much bigger than those from the forested areas as they have access to greater prey availability.
Other claims I'm seeing from the table from the mid-20th century probably do not come from reputable scientific sources. I'm not saying they are fake but there are no sources to go by in the contents of the table itself.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 10-31-2023
Really exiting new paper First Capture of a Jaguar Using a Minimally Invasive Capture System for GPS Tracking in an Isolated Patch of Atlantic Forest in Southern Brazil, Palomares et al., 2023. We are given the weight and measurements of a geriatric male jaguar from the Atlantic Forest of Brazil, in Espirito Santo:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This was a very robust specimen despite the old age, low to the ground and wide. It does make us wonder how much he could've weighed during his prime. I will include it in the Atlantic Forest tab of our compilation dataset.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 11-11-2023
In the year 2020, alongside Ousado, female Amanaci was also rescued from the Porto Jofre region due to damage on her paws caused by the fires. Unlike Ousado, her injuries were very deep and prevented her from being returned into the wild. Amanaci was then sent to the conservational facility NEX to live the rest of her life.
Amanaci today, she is an absolutely massive female and we will see why that's relevant. It's a shame her genes couldn't remain in the wild:
In that same year, 2020, Amanaci was crossed with a male named Guarani who too inhabits NEX. They had one cub named Apoena who was bred with the purpose of being rewilded into Caiman Ecological Refuge by Onçafari. Unfortunately, the team of vets at NEX began to notice odd behavior by Apoena months prior to his scheduled transfer to Caiman. When they performed analyses, they noticed that his retinas were damaged, rendering him unfit to survive in the wild, so the rewilding project had to be canceled.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
At 1.5 years old, Apoena weighs a whooping 93 kg according to NEX:
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He's fine! He's strong and huge! Weighing 93 kilos at just one and a half years old. The retinal degeneration has stalled and the ophthalmologists are investigating his case. We didn't take any pictures of him, so as not to stress him out. He's very aloof and, as he's been trained to be free, he's very angry. We have to approach him little by little... but he's wonderful!!!!
93 kg for a sub-adult of 1.5 years of age is extremely impressive. We will see how much he weighs once he reaches adulthood. 130+ kg seems reasonable for him. That's why his mother's genes were so crucial, since she's massive herself.
Initially, the veterinarians hypothesized that his blindness might've been caused by a genetic defect, if that's the case, they're looking to do studies to find the gene causing the disability. If it is due to defective genes, then it makes the situation even sadder because he could not be used as a breeder for his cubs to be rewilded instead. If it's not, then he can still be used as a breeder.
In an ideal universe where he doesn't have any genetic issues, I'd like to see him moved to the Jaguar Reintroduction Center in the Iberá wetlands of Argentina so he could be used to breed with the captive females whose cubs would be released for the ongoing reintroduction project. Let's remember that the first adult jaguars ever released to Iberá, sisters Juruna and Mariua, were rescued by NEX and later donated to the project. Let's hope they can continue breeding Amanaci, at least.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 11-13-2023
Coli is the second male jaguar released in Iberá after Jatobazinho. He was rescued from Faro Moro, in the Paraguayan Chaco, as an orphan and at 1.5 years was donated to Rewilding Argentina on April 2022 for the Iberá project.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A year later, at 2.5 years, he was weighed by them at 83 kg. Once again, very good for a sub-adult male jaguar:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Coli was released on early September, almost certainly above 90 kg by that time.
We will see how he continues to grow and develop in the wild in Iberá with all the overabundance of prey.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Mapokser - 11-24-2023
Wasn't there a rule not to post drama from outside the forum here?
Anyway none of this has anything to do with me, but reading through the post above I saw talks about the jaguar named Lopez being weighed on an empty stomach.
I've recently saw a video of his capture and by the end of the video one of the people involved gives his weight as being 315lb or 142kg.
Also one of the men says: he's flat, but not overly gorged.
And the woman replies: no, he's not.
If he is not "overly gorged", then by definition he must have stomach content, no? Otherwise they'd have just said he'a empty. I can't see how there may be any different interpretation to what has been said ( despite the title of the video claiming he was empty, it also claims in the title he weighed 148kg but the actual video shows 142kg ).
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Mapokser - 11-24-2023
@Balam
Assed how? If even the "he's about 315lb/142kg" is an estimation then how can he be assed as 148kg?
If the scale could only weight up to 300lb all we can say is that he weighed over 300lb with stomach content.
The dialogue is very clear
Man: "he is flat, but not overly gorged."
Woman: "no he is not."
This means the people weighing him are saying he has stomach content, not enough for him to be overly gorged, but still, 100% not empty.
The method of his capture with fish doesn't mean much to claim he was empty or close to it as he could have eaten before, not only the bait.
Unless there's some strong evidence, another instance of him being weighed again, all I can say is that he weighed over 300lb with stomach content since it's what the people weighing him where caught on camera saying.
Or is there someone willing to argue that this sentence: "he's flat, BUT not overly gorged" means empty instead of "has stomach content but not enough to be fully gorged", it's blatant clear what he meant.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 11-24-2023
There is no way to tell if an animal is empty without cutting them open.
Flat generally is a sign they aren’t obviously gorged.
The 148kg # comes from this.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - peter - 11-24-2023
(11-24-2023, 05:46 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Balam
Assed how? If even the "he's about 315lb/142kg" is an estimation then how can he be assed as 148kg?
If the scale could only weight up to 300lb all we can say is that he weighed over 300lb with stomach content.
The dialogue is very clear
Man: "he is flat, but not overly gorged."
Woman: "no he is not."
This means the people weighing him are saying he has stomach content, not enough for him to be overly gorged, but still, 100% not empty.
The method of his capture with fish doesn't mean much to claim he was empty or close to it as he could have eaten before, not only the bait.
Unless there's some strong evidence, another instance of him being weighed again, all I can say is that he weighed over 300lb with stomach content since it's what the people weighing him where caught on camera saying.
Or is there someone willing to argue that this sentence: "he's flat, BUT not overly gorged" means empty instead of "has stomach content but not enough to be fully gorged", it's blatant clear what he meant.
MAPOKSER
Balam has been involved in a few heated debates. She's taking a two week break.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Mapokser - 11-25-2023
Hmm actually now that I watch the video ( of Lopez being weighed ) without paying attention to the subtitles, I'm confident the guy says "he's fat, but not overly gorged".
Instead of what the subtitles claims "he's flat, but not overly gorged", which doesn't make anywhere near as much sense, in fact it seems he even says he is fat because he ate.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 11-25-2023
(11-25-2023, 06:30 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Hmm actually now that I watch the video ( of Lopez being weighed ) without paying attention to the subtitles, I'm confident the guy says "he's fat, but not overly gorged".
Instead of what the subtitles claims "he's flat, but not overly gorged", which doesn't make anywhere near as much sense, in fact it seems he even says he is fat because he ate.
Almeida had Jaguars with empty bellies who had larger stomach girths than chest girths. You’re not going to know for sure unless you cut them open. All we know is this male barely ate any bait and wasn’t overly gorged so obviously he had room for more.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Roflcopters - 11-25-2023
what a massive animal! is this the heaviest Jaguar on record?
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 11-25-2023
(11-25-2023, 09:55 AM)Roflcopters Wrote: what a massive animal! is this the heaviest Jaguar on record?
One of, there’s another 148kg Male from Venezuela
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And Joker
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He was over 140kg but the team couldn’t hold him off the ground long enough for the scale to settle, he was too heavy.