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+----- Thread: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars (/topic-modern-weights-and-measurements-of-jaguars)
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 01-23-2023
@Balam reached out to me and gave me Jokers full measurements from his first and 2nd captures, 2nd is shown but both are mentioned in the video so full credit to her.
"Oncafari biologist Bruno Sartori Reis gave an answer on IG where he gave the total length for Joker on his second capture as well as his head girth measurement, the video is"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Here is the video of him discussing everything
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jaguarland/comments/x5l65u/on%C3%A7afari_biologist_bruno_sartori_reis_was_asked/
Joker is most likely the largest Jaguar measured and verified Jaguar on record, he is without a doubt a Lioness/Tigress sized Jaguar.
Balam also has an updated list of all verified Jaguars and locations
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-K1IffPe7meDPhh2RUWSIzfTucVPjKWv4f63qGzD8SM/edit#gid=0
and one more Jaguar to add to the list
This is Mango
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - AndresVida - 02-05-2023
(01-23-2023, 11:27 PM)Pckts Wrote: reached out to me and gave me Jokers full measurements from his first and 2nd captures, 2nd is shown but both are mentioned in the video so full credit to her.@Pckts great post, I think it's excellent that we have finally all the body measurements regarding Joker which is without a doubt the largest recorded jaguar in modern times, it's a shame that we don't really know it's true weight apart from the fact it exceeded the 140 kg scale.
"Oncafari biologist Bruno Sartori Reis gave an answer on IG where he gave the total length for Joker on his second capture as well as his head girth measurement, the video is"
Since we have its body measurements, wouldn't it be possible to estimate its full body mass with a chest girth equation like it was done to estimate M105's adjusted weight at 261 kilograms?
Tagging @GuateGojira here
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 02-20-2023
Information provided from Oncafari Chief
*This image is copyright of its original author
His name is kept off per request.
These Jaguars are legitimately Lioness/Tigress sized.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - AndresVida - 02-21-2023
(02-20-2023, 09:45 PM)Pckts Wrote: These Jaguars are legitimately Lioness/Tigress sized.Charger recently made for me a weight estimate based on a chest girth equation and he got a range of 170-180 kgs for Joker, now obviously that's just an estimate but still makes us notice how large that male could have truly been.
Easily the largest specimen ever recorded not only in modern records but also in the whole historical list of Pantanal jaguars
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - LandSeaLion - 02-22-2023
(02-21-2023, 11:56 PM)AndresVida Wrote:(02-20-2023, 09:45 PM)Pckts Wrote: These Jaguars are legitimately Lioness/Tigress sized.Charger recently made for me a weight estimate based on a chest girth equation and he got a range of 170-180 kgs for Joker, now obviously that's just an estimate but still makes us notice how large that male could have truly been.
Easily the largest specimen ever recorded not only in modern records but also in the whole historical list of Pantanal jaguars
Jeez…if that’s an accurate estimate then forget lioness/tigress-sized, that would be more like an average male lion or tiger.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Spalea - 02-22-2023
A little bit more and this jaguar will get a sabertoothcat's stature and size. You are nearly there !
I'm joking...
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - AndresVida - 02-23-2023
Here's it's an appropriate thread
@Pckts doesn't Almeida's 119 kg jaguar have a greater mid section girth than chest girth despite being fully empty bellied? This shows that Shaka could also hold weight on the mid section despite being also empty, and Joker measuring less on that area almost certainly confirms he was pretty empty as well. I recall seeing his picture with him lying on a flank and the flank was shrinking instead of being bloated.
Regarding the "pleistocene Jaguar" discussion also I'm familiar with Balam and I have never seen anywhere that she has claimed Edno to be a 170 kg jaguar tbh.
I think that the whole "pleistocene jaguar" thing was related to the result of the chest-girth equation we got from Charger that shows Joker may have attained a size rivaling or slightly surpass the average size of Mesembrina
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - LandSeaLion - 02-24-2023
(02-22-2023, 01:54 PM)Spalea Wrote: A little bit more and this jaguar will get a sabertoothcat's stature and size. You are nearly there !
I'm joking...
(02-23-2023, 08:06 PM)AndresVida Wrote: Here's it's an appropriate thread
@Pckts doesn't Almeida's 119 kg jaguar have a greater mid section girth than chest girth despite being fully empty bellied? This shows that Shaka could also hold weight on the mid section despite being also empty, and Joker measuring less on that area almost certainly confirms he was pretty empty as well. I recall seeing his picture with him lying on a flank and the flank was shrinking instead of being bloated.
Regarding the "pleistocene Jaguar" discussion also I'm familiar with Balam and I have never seen anywhere that she has claimed Edno to be a 170 kg jaguar tbh.
I think that the whole "pleistocene jaguar" thing was related to the result of the chest-girth equation we got from Charger that shows Joker may have attained a size rivaling or slightly surpass the average size of Mesembrina
Yeah the chest-weight regression equations are a useful approximation, but not tightly correlated enough to be a be-all-and-end-all, owing to individual variations in body proportions. It is more likely that this jaguar was 150kg or less (still enormous) with a relatively massive chest.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 02-24-2023
(02-23-2023, 08:06 PM)AndresVida Wrote: Here's it's an appropriate thread
@Pckts doesn't Almeida's 119 kg jaguar have a greater mid section girth than chest girth despite being fully empty bellied? This shows that Shaka could also hold weight on the mid section despite being also empty, and Joker measuring less on that area almost certainly confirms he was pretty empty as well. I recall seeing his picture with him lying on a flank and the flank was shrinking instead of being bloated.
Regarding the "pleistocene Jaguar" discussion also I'm familiar with Balam and I have never seen anywhere that she has claimed Edno to be a 170 kg jaguar tbh.
I think that the whole "pleistocene jaguar" thing was related to the result of the chest-girth equation we got from Charger that shows Joker may have attained a size rivaling or slightly surpass the average size of Mesembrina
Generally speaking Almeida states belly girth depends a lot upon how much, if anything the cat had eaten recently.
The largest Belly girth Almeida measured came from completely empty male which measured 47'' (119cm)
This male's chest girth was 43''
This means that generally the belly girth should outsize the chest girth more often than not regardless if the Jaguar is empty or not so using the excuse that the Jaguar should be considered full just because it's belly girth outsizes it's chest isn't correct. Like most state, it's very difficult to determine how much a cat has in it's stomach outsize of the obvious bloating or 1st hand knowledge of carcass consumption.
I assume that the person making the baseless claims about what Balam said is wrong per usual, I'm not surprised by that.
With regards to the Chest/Weight equation-
Unfortunately you need all the measurements to determine a real weight that has the best possibility of being accurate. There's no magic bullet, you can find correlations between them all but none paint a true picture until you have the necessary measurements. (Height, Length, girth and protocols used)
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 05-09-2023
Bringing here from Jaguarland:
The first male jaguar has been captured by Yaguara Panamá in the Darién rainforest of Panama. His name is Imama and weighed a whopping 88 kg which is one of the greatest weights recorded for a jaguar in Central America, where they are usually dwarf.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cr2E2fNOCz0/
Imama is part of a research project that aims to study the movements and habits of jaguars in non-protected areas of Panama around ranches. His healthy weight suggests that there may still be relatively plentiful prey.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Comments from one of the people involved in his capture:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - ravager - 06-02-2023
@Balam what happened to the 142kg jaguar in the table of 74 specimens?
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - ravager - 06-02-2023
One more thing, does anyone know more about the 155kg male?
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-03-2023
@ravager
Thanks for your questions. The 142 kg male was a mistake where Lopez was included twice. This happened during a very early stage of the data collection process when we were starting to gather all the information and sometimes some animals would be mentioned with different names or in different sources which caused some confusion. All this has since been rectified in the official publicized Google docs file, which should be the only link to reference the data compilation at this point since there is where you'll find the most up-to-date information with recent captures and developments.
I don't know which 155 kg jaguar you are referring to as we never included that figure in the data set. Are you referring to the 158 kg specimen quoted by Seymour? That specimen has as original source jaguar hunter Sasha Siemel. That jaguar nicknamed "Assesino" was killed by Siemel in the 20th century and was, according to him, the largest jaguar he had ever seen. This jaguar was never weighed but he estimated him to have been at least 350 lbs. There are no photos of the animal and the skull was sold off by his family years later, so no records were kept either unfortunately.
There is a reliable record of a non-obese 158 kg captive jaguar from Florida that came from someone who had access to the cat and its keepers who stated it was weighed regularly on a scale, but this wasn't a wild specimen so it can't be included in the table. Only 2 specimens have been weighed surpassing 140 kg in weight on modern scientific records so far, those are Lopez and Joker.
We may get more large males of similar size recorded when Onçafari resumes its capture campaigns in the southern Pantanal, it's a matter of patience but also of appreciating all jaguars in all their sizes.
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - ravager - 06-05-2023
@Balam thank you for your answer, this was the 155kg male I was talking about
A message about a jaguar weighing 155kg
Reply
Attached FilesImage(s)
*This image is copyright of its original author
I was wondering if anyone else had more info on this jaguar. I also have another question, do you regularly update these tables?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-K1IffPe7meDPhh2RUWSIzfTucVPjKWv4f63qGzD8SM/edit#gid=26229435
RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 06-06-2023
(06-05-2023, 09:58 PM)ravager Wrote: @Balam thank you for your answer, this was the 155kg male I was talking aboutI’d guess this is an estimation for Joker since he exceeded 140kg
A message about a jaguar weighing 155kg
Reply
Attached FilesImage(s)
*This image is copyright of its original author
I was wondering if anyone else had more info on this jaguar. I also have another question, do you regularly update these tables?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-K1IffPe7meDPhh2RUWSIzfTucVPjKWv4f63qGzD8SM/edit#gid=26229435