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+---- Thread: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts (/topic-felids-interactions-interspecific-conflicts)
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Shadow - 01-24-2019
(01-24-2019, 04:55 PM)Jimmy Wrote: what I always believed is that, the smaller feline although vastly inferior in terms of power to its larger brethren can still have one advantage, it can fight on all fours i.e. use its bottom legs due to it being shorter, But there is big IF, If the larger cat is inexperience and tries to outmuscle solely by pinning smaller cat by using it's brute strength and front limbs, it could lend itself to a fatal positioning by exposing it's belly, I thought this on brown bear/ tiger interaction as well. While bigger animal has more strength and can outmuscle its opponent into choice manuver, less experience cat or bear for that matter might get a little careless, it's little hard to explain so I made a drawing
*This image is copyright of its original author
On no.1 a larger say tigress subdues a male leopard but, leopard can thrust it's hind legs from this position, tigress is fighting with two front limbs plus fangs. While leopard is fighting on all fours or at least trying to.
On no.2 a more experience tiger control it's opppnent, gets the throat and keeps distance nullyfying the leopards trailing legs.
So for me it's like smaller cats uses all fours while bigger cat uses front limbs for control. Of course most of the times the larger animal with itsitmore power always controls his opponent to get the best position but this I think is the reason why smaller cats could be deadly defensively and larger cat seems to know this. Ever seen leopard goes belly up instantly while a larger lioness reluctently goes away!!!
You are good what comes to drawing! And I think, that it is no surprise, that I agree. Same things have crossed in my mind too among some others. What comes to bears and tigers for instance, I have never thought, that it would be mission impossible for a tiger to kill for instance a big male brown bear, there are possible cases even though very rare in last 2 centuries. Point in that is, that even those possible cases are so rare. And while no confirmed ones, it is quite safe to assume, that those encounters are rare and there is some reason why it is so. But that doesn´t make it impossible, so if some day we get one 100% confirmed case, I am not surprised, I would be surprised only, if suddenly all the time news about such cases :)
Same thing what comes to leopards and tigers/lions.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Pckts - 01-24-2019
If you watch the infamous Tiger Canyon fight you'll see both the tigers doing exactly what you speak of @Jimmy
Turn the sound up when viewing and you'll hear it too, its brutal. That being said, even being a Tiger with far more powerful limbs and much larger claws, neither was able to open up any sort of gash on eachothers stomach, it leads one to assume the odds of a leopard being able to accomplish such a feat is highly unlikely.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Shadow - 01-24-2019
(01-24-2019, 05:18 PM)Pckts Wrote: If you watch the infamous Tiger Canyon fight you'll see both the tigers doing exactly what you speak of @Jimmy
Turn the sound up when viewing and you'll hear it too, its brutal. That being said, even being a Tiger with far more powerful limbs and much larger claws, neither was able to open up any sort of gash on eachothers stomach, it leads one to assume the odds of a leopard being able to accomplish such a feat is highly unlikely.
Sometimes animals can fight long times and both seem to walk away unharmed. Sometimes one swipe to right place and fight is over instantly. So unlikely yes, impossible not, imo :) Has it happened in wildlife, I don´t know. This one case is only one, which I have seen as possible one, at least so far, but as mentioned by many, it is unclear. So I am not claiming too much, I just keep all possibilities open because I don´t feel comfortable to call something impossible if not really believing in it :)
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Pckts - 01-24-2019
Anything is possible but it's still extremely unlikely. In fact, I have never seen or heard of a big cat dying from that type of wound inflicted by another. Big cats are built to fight one another, they can generally withstand a lot and if you watch any cat that prefers the grapple technique like Leopards and Tigers and you'll see it quite often. Imo the more dangerous technique is when a cat goes for the throat and the other cat is able to bring its rear legs up and claw the face of the aggressor, I'd bet that and the random paw swipe are the major contributors to lost or damage eyes.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Sanju - 01-24-2019
Any interaction b/w Asian leopard subspecies and Clouded Leopard???
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Shadow - 01-24-2019
(01-24-2019, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: Anything is possible but it's still extremely unlikely. In fact, I have never seen or heard of a big cat dying from that type of wound inflicted by another. Big cats are built to fight one another, they can generally withstand a lot and if you watch any cat that prefers the grapple technique like Leopards and Tigers and you'll see it quite often. Imo the more dangerous technique is when a cat goes for the throat and the other cat is able to bring its rear legs up and claw the face of the aggressor, I'd bet that and the random paw swipe are the major contributors to lost or damage eyes.
Yes it is rare, otherwise we would have information about such cases time to time. But for instance this news:
https://www.bigcatsindia.com/7-tiger-died-nagpur/
There we have 7 dead tigers and explanations about causes of death, some certain, some suspected. But when trying to find some research or documentation telling more than "55 tigers killed to natural causes".... very difficult. Or if there is mentioned "34 tigers killed in fighting" I guess, that it means tiger vs tiger, but it would be interesting to know more. I hope, that someone finds something more some day. Now we have obviously many cases which have been more or less investigated, but how come we have no documentation to look closer, that what kind of cases are confirmed and what are suspected and why? From jungle it is much more difficult to get as much footage than from savannah, it is easy to understand. What is more difficult to understand is that there looks like to be information but so difficult to find it. Some glimpses here and there. Or does someone have a good source maybe, which I have missed? :)
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Pckts - 01-24-2019
Usually in the studies mentioned the "death by natural cause" is explained but not always but to jump to any conclusions based off of not knowing the natural cause is not the way to go imo.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Shadow - 01-24-2019
(01-24-2019, 06:13 PM)Pckts Wrote: Usually in the studies mentioned the "death by natural cause" is explained but not always but to jump to any conclusions based off of not knowing the natural cause is not the way to go imo.
I am not making coclusion based on that :) But I am interested to know more, because it is very well known thing, that tigers are killed also by prey animals time to time. That just can´t be seen on statistics. So only logical conclusion is, that those cases are included to something. Is that natural causes or in fighting is unclear for me. But of course those cases are included under some headline.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Sanju - 01-25-2019
Friendship b/w Lioness and Leopardess
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Shadow - 01-25-2019
(01-25-2019, 04:15 PM)Sanju Wrote: Friendship b/w Lioness and Leopardess
If I don´t remember wrong, these two were orphanages saved and raised together before released to wildlife same time. I am not 100% sure, but I remember reading once about these two.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Sanju - 01-25-2019
(01-25-2019, 04:50 PM)Shadow Wrote:(01-25-2019, 04:15 PM)Sanju Wrote: Friendship b/w Lioness and Leopardess
If I don´t remember wrong, these two were orphanages saved and raised together before released to wildlife same time. I am not 100% sure, but I remember reading once about these two.
Did you watch the full video???
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Shadow - 01-25-2019
(01-25-2019, 04:57 PM)Sanju Wrote:(01-25-2019, 04:50 PM)Shadow Wrote:(01-25-2019, 04:15 PM)Sanju Wrote: Friendship b/w Lioness and Leopardess
If I don´t remember wrong, these two were orphanages saved and raised together before released to wildlife same time. I am not 100% sure, but I remember reading once about these two.
Did you watch the full video???
That is the one, where they play together until lioness steal two kills from that leopard and then they mate with their own species and start to live leopard and lion life as usual?
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Sanju - 01-25-2019
@Shadow yeah! its the same video.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Shadow - 01-25-2019
(01-25-2019, 05:03 PM)Sanju Wrote: @Shadow yeah! its the same video.
Ok, then I think, that those were saved from wildlife as orphanages and raised together and that explains the situation on that video. Still quite interesting to watch and nice to see, that both seemed to be ok and find their places as wild animals.
RE: Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts - Spalea - 01-25-2019
@Sanju :
About #594: I remember this documentary, a very good one ! A young leopard and a young lioness bred and then released together in wild. At first they are friend, the leopard learnt faster the "wild rules" in the savannah, the lioness uses her bigger strength for eating first and so on. And finally they become stranger each other.