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+--- Thread: Survey - The Future of Big Cats (/topic-survey-the-future-of-big-cats)
RE: The Future of Big Cats - Spalea - 08-18-2016
Your discussion reminds me of a book "the last tigers" from Tony Black edited during the 1990s and in which it was still told that tigers were everywhere... But in fact nowhere ! Of course they spoke about dense jungles and forests in India, Vietnam, Indonesia where the tigers could be... They spoke always of the Sumatra wild forest where 600 to 800 tigers lived. Every country inflates or exaggerates its statistics. But in fact, only the tiger's spirit was present like a lost myth.
Of course, even the big cats, like tigers and lions are very adaptable animals. In Asia and Africa there are perhaps still some millions square kilometer of wild habitat where these big cats are able, potentially, to live. But we don't have to fantasize: if these animals thrived, it would be thank to the human extinction. In the meantime they always represent a drawing power for candid men in mood of strong sensations and easy to delude.
Inside Gabon, lions were completely forgotten. And just one lion has reappeared through a camera lens ! Miracle ! We started to speculate again but wild animals don't never forget, they try to live despite the humans and become very very discreet.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - brotherbear - 08-18-2016
Lions living in the jungle; I don't think so. His tawny coat would stand out vividly in the green jungle. The ancestors of lions were jungle cats; thus spotted cubs. Lions would find it much easier to keep hidden from people in the jungle than on the open savanna. Therefore, if lions were "jungle cats" there should be even more of them in the jungle today than in the grasslands and bush country. Also, it is believed by many authorities that the reason Asian apes are more arborial than African apes relates to the tiger. What would happen if a bull gorilla stood his ground against a lion?
If there had ever been a population of "jungle lions" then they would have adapted differently than those of the open savanna. Different color and likely no mane at all. They would have given up living and hunting in groups. No, "Sorry Charley," I don't buy it. Not for a second.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - brotherbear - 08-18-2016
https://psmag.com/the-forest-lion-of-gabon-a221eb09e6a5#.y99mc67jk
http://www.earthtouchnews.com/conservation/conservation/camera-trap-footage-sparks-hope-for-a-lion-comeback-in-gabon
Quote: The forests and grasslands of the Batéké Plateau National Park in south-eastern Gabon are perfect lion habitat – but Africa's largest cats have not roamed the area in any large numbers for more than half a century.
*Forests and grasslands - not tropical jungles.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - Pckts - 08-18-2016
From the link posted
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]Henschel is now the lion survey project coordinator for [/color]Panthera[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)], a global wildcat conservation organization. Since last month’s discovery, his group, along with the [/color]Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology’s Pan Africa Programme[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)] and the [/color]Aspinall Foundation[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)], "have repeatedly captured clear video footage of a male lion walking down a forest path in Gabon’s Batéké Plateau National Park — an ecological wonder for more reasons than one."[/color]
"[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]Even more confounding is the ecosystem itself. The Batéké Plateau is ecologically isolated, surrounded by the Congo Basin’s extensive tropical rainforest — unlikely habitat for savannah-loving lions."[/color]
That lion is living in the "forest" or "tropical rainforest" not Savannah, it's spotted numerous times and it's one of many lions that once roamed there throughout time.
If you want to say it's not the "jungle" I'm not sure how you'd classify "jungle from rain forest"? But the same habitat that a tiger inhabits can and has been inhabitanted by a lion. W
How you want to classify it is up you, but tall green trees, hills and slopes, dense brush etc are both part of either ecosystem and lions have lived in every Prt of the Congo basin outside of 1/4 of it and many places they once lived absolutely have forest and/or jungle.
In regards to your "camouflage claim" a "jungle cat" "Puma" and "Asian golden cat" all inhabit terrain of rain forest/forest which of course is where a jungle is located.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - brotherbear - 08-18-2016
(08-18-2016, 06:59 PM)brotherbear Wrote: https://psmag.com/the-forest-lion-of-gabon-a221eb09e6a5#.y99mc67jk
http://www.earthtouchnews.com/conservation/conservation/camera-trap-footage-sparks-hope-for-a-lion-comeback-in-gabon
Quote: The forests and grasslands of the Batéké Plateau National Park in south-eastern Gabon are perfect lion habitat – but Africa's largest cats have not roamed the area in any large numbers for more than half a century.
*Forests and grasslands - not tropical jungles.
Even more confounding is the ecosystem itself. The Batéké Plateau is ecologically isolated, surrounded by the Congo Basin’s extensive tropical rainforest - The lions live on the plateau which is surrounded by the tropical rainforest.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - Pckts - 08-18-2016
(08-17-2016, 02:06 PM)brotherbear Wrote:(08-17-2016, 05:38 AM)SVTIGRIS Wrote: @brotherbearthe climates are seperated into different scenarios. What I mean is that there is one climate for all cats in one scenario. Another for another, ect.
Understood. Pleistocene North America proves to us that multiple big cats are capable of living within the same environment. However, as you have mentioned, the lion is fully capable of adapting to a sub-arctic environment if there is a niche open to him. But, I do not believe that lions could successfully invade a location already occupied and dominated by tigers. Likewise, I doubt that tigers could successfully move into a location already occupied by lions. To adapt to a new environment which is totally different from that which a species has dwelled for perhaps a million years takes time; lots of time. I believe that lions will remain creatures of the open savanna and tigers will remain forest creatures. There are no lions living in the Congo.
Lets just go back to what you said, not what you changed the debate to:
Lions live/have lived in the Forest and in 3/4 of the entire Congo Basin.
If you'd like to switch the debate to "lions don't live in the jungle" that is a different discussion, which of course I stated numerous times that a lion nor a tiger or any cat with that kind of mass can live in a densely packed eco system like a jungle. But that wasn't what we were discussing nor is there a debate there.
@GrizzlyClaws
There is some nice info on the type of lions that may have migrated there....
"No one’s sure how lions got there in the first place, according to Henschel. They probably arrived about 18,000 years ago, when ice sheets covered much of the northern hemisphere and the climate in West Africa was drier, the grasslands more extensive, and the rainforest more contained. Historic and genetic evidence suggests that as the rainforest retreated, lions and a handful of other savannah species moved up from the south.
But many savannah species — zebras, wildebeest, giraffe — either never made the trek or didn’t persist on the plateau. With limited food options, Gabon’s lions fed mostly on forest buffalo. After Gabon’s independence from France in 1960, citizens armed with shotguns did as well. As hunters wiped out buffalo, hungry lions turned to cattle, and angry ranchers poisoned them. Civil war in neighboring Congo at the end of the 20th century sent Congolese hunters streaming across the border into Gabon in search of food, further depleting prey. By the start of the 21st century, the lions of Gabon were locally extinct.
Today, lowland rainforest stretches 1,000 kilometers to the north of the plateau, separating it from small lion populations in Cameroon and the Central African Republic. To the south, the Congo River separates Gabon from the few remaining lions in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Both the dense rainforest and the deep river are formidable obstacles for lions seeking new territory. But that’s exactly what Henschel thinks this lion was doing."
"Young lions often leave their natal home in search of new territory and mates, roaming hundreds of kilometers if necessary. Henschel believes this lion most likely swam across the Congo River from the Malebo region of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, 250 kilometers away; an area where other biologists have spotted lions in recent years.
Its affinity for forest cover might have helped. Two days after Henschel saw the lion images he was at the park setting up more camera traps, placing most of them in typical lion habitat in the savannah. “None of those cameras have filmed that lion,” Henschel says. “Whereas the cameras we set up in forest areas have filmed it repeatedly.” Henschel speculates that the forest might provide refuge from people, which the lion could now fear. “He seems to have adapted to a life in the forest. But how an animal that size hunts in the forest we don’t know yet.”
The solitary lion is just the latest indication of wildlife recovery in Gabon. Thanks in part to Henschel’s previous work in 2001, the government of Gabon established Batéké Plateau National Park in 2002 as part of a network of protected areas designed to replenish its devastated wildlife populations. Park wardens now patrol the area and hunting has declined. “It’s an incredible difference,” Henschel says. “To see this area now and compare it to what it was like in 2001 — today there are animal signs prevalent throughout the park. In places where we used to see poacher camps, we now see elephant signs or groups of buffalo.”
RE: The Future of Big Cats - parvez - 08-19-2016
Vertical cities may be the solution to protect big cats like tigers, lions etc in the wild. I have read newspaper which stated that in Iraq the vertical city is going to be built in future that will have everything including its own ecosystem. There is no need to go out more frequently out. Such type of new ideas can save big cats. Population control still is the biggest challenge the world faces. If a solution is found for this, then we can save big cats without a doubt.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - Pckts - 08-19-2016
What do you mean by "vertical cities"
Cities built on stilts to get them off the ground?
I'd still think they'd produce pollution that would need to be expelled into the outer atmosphere and require massive amounts of natural resources to maintain but the idea is intriguing none the less.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - parvez - 08-21-2016
(08-19-2016, 10:16 PM)Pckts Wrote: What do you mean by "vertical cities"
Cities built on stilts to get them off the ground?
I'd still think they'd produce pollution that would need to be expelled into the outer atmosphere and require massive amounts of natural resources to maintain but the idea is intriguing none the less.
They have the required technology to build the vertical cities without which they would never prepare a plan for that. One was proposed to be built in iraq with full pledge plan in coming years. The foundation should be strong enough and able to withstand natural disasters. But it is a hard task i agree with that. If the technology improves it could become prominent in the coming years. Pollution is the factor but to save big cats saving forests is the primary objective. If forests are saved pollution can be made not to increase at least. That would be enough to save big cats IMO. They are not built on stilts, there will be some 5 to 6 mega towers interconnected with one another which have almost everything required in a city. If the tower is more than one kilometre high then it may stilt. But there would be around atleast 3 towers that are reasonably tall not superlatively tall.
RE: The Future of Big Cats - tigerluver - 08-21-2016
To build off what @parvez has shared, vertical farming already exists and works quite well in minimizing land usage and making a region self sustaining.
A modern example:
*This image is copyright of its original author
A possible future:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is getting a bit off topic. Maybe I can create a new thread discussing methods to cope with our growing population and land impacts?
RE: The Future of Big Cats - parvez - 08-21-2016
@tigerluver Yes, that is a good idea to create a new thread.