(02-08-2019, 06:51 PM)Pckts Wrote: Elephant seals are far larger than any prey crocodiles can take so the idea that Sharks take smaller prey proportionately isn't correct. 
It's also obvious in their hunting strategy, GWS's hit and run, meaning they attack and sit back and let the prey bleed out while Crocodiles must bite and hold so obviously they cannot do that to animals too large which is why you have never seen a crocodile successfully take an adult Cape Buffalo for instance, it happens I'm sure but those are very rare cases compared to many modern day cases of Sharks attacking Elephant Seals.

(02-08-2019, 08:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: In this video is claimed, that Gustave have killed an adult hippo. Pity that no footage about that if it is true. But he is big and despite what great white or crocodile eat, they look like to be able to hurt each others when about same length.

(02-08-2019, 09:57 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(02-08-2019, 08:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: In this video is claimed, that Gustave have killed an adult hippo. Pity that no footage about that if it is true. But he is big and despite what great white or crocodile eat, they look like to be able to hurt each others when about same length.

I'm not sure he's taking on an Adult Hippo and why would he?
He'd have to be desperate to want to risk a fight with a Hippo to the death but the fact that the females put themselves between him and their calves says a lot, usually they'd just run off the Croc but they knew caution was a better option with Gustave.
Although I don't think a big Bull would have the same patience.

Quote:The estuarine crocodile (Crocodylus porosus) is one of the largest and most widespread crocodilians in the world. Although considered an apex species, the role of the estuarine crocodile in aquatic foodwebs is poorly understood; we know what crocodiles ingest, but not what nourishes them. In this study, we used a combination of stable isotope measurements (δ13C, δ15N, and δ34S) and direct feeding observations to identify the source of nutrition of estuarine crocodiles in Kakadu National Park, Northern Australia. Our results show that most crocodiles sampled (size 850 – 4200mm, with 76% of them being > 2.5 m) consume a large variety of prey, however a large proportion of their nutrition is derived from terrestrial prey. Introduced species such as water buffaloes (Bubalus bubalis) and pigs (Sus scrofa) could contribute between 53 and 84% to the nutrition of the sampled crocodiles. The isotopic composition of large crocodiles (total length > 3 m) suggested possible increase in marine prey consumption with size (R2 = 0.30; p = 0.005). Additionally, we found crocodiles sampled in the dry season had on average higher terrestrial contributions compared to crocodiles sampled during the wet season (84.1 ± 2.4% versus 55.4 ± 7.0%). Overall, we found that terrestrial prey are important source of nutrition for many crocodiles in this region where introduced herbivorous mammals are abundant.
...
Crocodile isotopic composition was closest to that of terrestrial animals in dual isotope space (δ13C vs δ15N, Fig 3A and 3B), especially pigs and buffaloes. When plotting δ15N vs δ34S, crocodiles in both EAR and SAR were closest to pigs and mullet (Fig 3C and 3D). In 3D isotope plots (Fig 4), crocodiles most closely plot around terrestrial and riverine sources. Using the proximity-based method for evaluating diet relationships in 3D isotope space (δ13C, δ15N, and δ34S), terrestrial animals had the highest contribution to the diet of crocodiles in both EAR and SAR with contributions of 58.9 ± 2.0 and 69.0 ± 0.6%, respectively (Fig 4). Contributions for pigs and buffalo were particularly high with 23.0 ± 1.2 and 22.2 ± 1.7% for the EAR, and 27.3 ± 2.9 and 24.0 ± 2.2% for the SAR.

Quote:During movement of "The Shiralee" upstream, we sighted a very large crocodile at km 41, dragging a dead bloated feral water buffalo across the river. The crocodile was midstream when we sighted it, at which time it dived with the buffalo held in its mouth and swam underwater some 20 to 30 m. This awe inspiring feat of strength had to be seen to be believed. The crocodile was the largest ever seen by HM during his 14 years of research on the tidal waterways of northern Australia and was estimated to be in excess of 20 feet in length. We had excellent views of the animal's head and estimated it to be at least one metre in length. A few days later we observed a 14 ft C. porosus with a freshly captured 6 ft struggling eel in its mouth. The eel struggled fiercely and kept wrapping its body around the head of the crocodile -but to no avail. The crocodile kept a posture, similar to that which we described on page 454, Monograph 1, when we witnessed a large crocodile capture a shark

Quote:There was a legend in North Queensland of a huge black crocodile that was thought to be measured over 35 feet long. Fishermen working in the river system would come back  scared from a narrow escape battle with the giant croc known through Queensland as Acco. It was said that Acco had sunk boats, torn nets, and driven lots of fishermen from the river. It was even said that he could attack and kill a scrub bull, then he would drag the carcass hundreds of feet across mudflats and eat it. He was also known to be able to swallow a whole “Barra” boar. Croc hunters would compete and try to shoot Acco for the supreme award. Fishermen started to complain so the government sent in professional croc catchers, but they could not capture the huge croc.

Quote:A WILD African Buffalo struggles to take its last breaths before being dragged under the water by a crocodile in Uganda, Africa.

Quote:Six species only have been recorded as being killed by crocodiles but this figure must be affected by the difficulty of locating kills in the rivers and the short time they are available.  Other than lion, crocodile is the only predator recorded as taking buffalo. The sample of kills  is small but puku head the list. It is likely also that lechwe on the Busanga are also taken.
...
Apart from an old bull taken by a crocodile the only recorded predators of buffalo were lion.

Quote:That was a digression. It seems remarkable that a Crocodile would even try to overpower something with the size and weight of a bull Giraffe, an animal which, even when caught off balance, can bring galvanic strength into play. The three observations that follow tell virtually the same story. But the interval of years shows that even this is not an unusual event: Visitors to Uaso Nyiro witnessed a fight between a crocodile and a giraffe." Kenya Parks 1952...During October, a fully grown female giraffe was pulled into the river and drowned...

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:At the no-longer-existent Rippon Falls in Uganda, one adult male hippopotamus was seen to be badly injured in a mating battle with a rival bull hippo, and was then subsequently attacked by several crocodiles, causing it to retreat to a reedbed. When the male hippo returned to the water, it was drowned and killed by the group of crocodiles amid "a truly terrifying commotion".

(02-10-2019, 02:00 AM)Pckts Wrote: This study https://vk.com/doc-100980341_473767469?hash=bde069324b8beab225&dl=d01da5a04a44fcf09c states 
"Direct observations We compiled observations of feeding activities from records held by National Park rangers of Kakadu National Park. Direct feeding of crocodiles is likely to be biased towards crocodiles"

Which means none of these cases are verified, just word of mouth. Water buffalo in Australia are the domesticated breed and they are also smaller, I believe they are with in the same range as Capes but being domesticated would make them far less equip to defend attacks from a predator they know nothing of. Very few Cape Bulls will reach the 900kg mark, that is an outlier so a Crocodile predating on one would be extremely rare regardless. That being said, I've seen many Cape Buffalo and a Giant Saltie from Australia that they have in the Dubai Mall (look him up if you haven't seen him) and I can without a doubt that a Saltie would be able to predate on most Bovine I've seen, I'd pay good money to see them attempt on the Big Bulls I've seen though, it would be a fantastic sight. But the video and picture you showed are both Cows btw and I thought the video that's Titled "1 Ton Buffalo vs Croc" actually showed the Cow escaping, but I could be wrong there?

Now in regards to Giraffe, that is impressive but less so than a Bull Cape IMO, Giraffe are very awkward animals, especially when drinking or when they fall over, it's not easy for them to stand back up and with a croc latched on to it's leg, it's impossible but unless were talking about a young or smaller Black Rhino which is in the water, I have huge doubts that any Croc could ambush a rhino and not be overpowered immediately. 

Even a young Elephant is able to pull a large Croc back while in the water
watch @ 4:00

If the Rhino is in the water and deep enough for the Croc to pull it out, then maybe it could happen. 


In regards to Elephant Seals, sharks do take adults, but it's rare like you stated but Elephant Seal is a main prey item for GWS and you can see it time and again so I have little doubt that large Seal is on the menu from time to time.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Even in shallow water they are still able to maneuver fairly well

So Considering the size advantage for elephant seals over cape and water buffalo, I'd say their predation feats are fairly close.

Quote:The uploader in the comments answering the question wheter the buffaloe died: "Sadly, my phone died... as did the buffallo a while later".

Quote:Crocodile attacks rhino.
Wednesday, November 18, 2009
By Frederick Courtenay Selous 
The White House, Washington,
September 27, 1907.
My dear Mr. Selous —
I don’t know whether the enclosed letter and photographs will be of any value to you in your book or not. Both relate to an occurrence so remarkable that I thought I would send them to you.
Fleischmann is a man of good standing, entirely truthful, and he had no conception of the importance of what he was telling me. I told him that the “authorities in Africa” who informed him that the crocodile might have gotten a purchase by wrapping its tail around something sunken were doubtless in error, and advised him to leave it out of the letter which he wrote me, which I told him I was going to send to you. But he put it in, and I am sending it along. It is the only part of his letter, which is mere hearsay or guesswork. I had no conception that crocodiles would tackle a rhinoceros. But you may remember in Samuel Baker’s Wild Beasts and Their Ways that he speaks of seeing crocodiles in Africa with the girth of a hippopotamus. In any event I send you the letter.
The other day, in reading “Big Game” in the Badminton Library, I noticed that Oswell, the South African hunter, speaks of trying to cut off a cheetah, and that the latter distanced his horse with the utmost ease. This tends to confirm me in the opinion that the cheetah for a half mile or so can readily distance a horse, and that when pursued by you the two animals you overtook at first simply tried to keep ahead of you, not trying to exert themselves, and that after a half mile was passed their wind was gone and then they gave out.
When do you think you will publish your book?
Sincerely yours,
Theodore Roosevelt.

Letter from Mr. Fleischmann.
Cincinnati, September 23, 1907.
My dear Mr. President —
I take pleasure in sending you under separate cover to-day, as per your request, the enlarged photographs of the encounter between a rhinoceros and crocodiles in the Tana river, British East Africa ; also another photograph showing a large herd of hippopotami in the Tana river, which I believe may prove of interest to you.
I shall also undertake to give you a brief description of the attack of the crocodile upon the rhino, which resulted in the latter’s death. While encamped on the Thika River, about one hundred yards above its junction with the Tana, the attention of the members of our hunting party was called to the loud cries of the porters. A moment later “AH,” the Somali headman, came running to tell us that a mamba (crocodile) had seized a faro (rhinoceros), as the latter stepped into the river to drink.
“Ali” was concealed in the bushes on the side of the river opposite the scene at the time the rhino came down to drink. When our party arrived, about fifty of our porters were on a sandbank leading out into the Tana River. The rhino was held by its left hind-leg, which had been seized by the crocodile just as the big beast was leaving the river after drinking. At least half a dozen of the porters, who had been lying in the bushes near the scene, in reply to my questions, agreed as to the manner the rhino was attacked.
When we neared the point of attack, the rhino appeared panic-stricken, making very little noise — simply straining and heaving in its efforts to release its leg from the jaws of the crocodile. While making but little headway, the rhino did for a time succeed in holding its own, keeping in shallow water, as the photos 1 and 2 show.
A moment or two later, however, blood appeared on the surface of the water, leading us to believe that the crocodile had been reinforced by other mambas (crocodiles) which had been attracted to the scene by the blood and lashing of the water. The struggle continued on down the stream, the combatants having moved quite a distance from the original point of attack. The rhino still managed to keep on its feet, facing either down stream or toward the opposite bank, and for a distance of at least one hundred yards down stream had made no perceptible loss of ground. Shortly afterward, however, apparently maddened by the pain it was undoubtedly suffering (for now much more blood and pieces of flesh appeared on the surface of the water), the rhino evidently lost its head and attempted to cross through the deep water to the opposite shore, as shown in photo 3.
This move was the beginning of the rhino’s end, for as soon as it turned and met with deeper water, it lost the advantage of a firm foothold in the shallow water, and the animal was quickly drawn beneath the surface.
The rhino was a full-grown female with a horn, which we estimated to be about twenty inches in length. It was the opinion of authorities in Africa to whom I told the story of the struggle, that a very large crocodile had taken hold of the rhino’s leg and wrapped its tail around some sunken obstacle, thus giving it a purchase, as it were, which enabled it to successfully hold on until reinforced by other crocodiles.
These enlarged photographs were made from 3 1/4 x 4 1/2negatives, the “snaps” being taken by my valet, who was acting in charge of the commissary department of the caravan.
I trust that these photos will reach you in good condition.
With my sincere regards, I have the honour to be,
Yours respectfully,
Max C. Fleischmann.

Comment from Selous.
Remarkable and unusual as was the occurrence witnessed by Mr. Fleischmann, there can be no doubt as to the truth of his most interesting story. The three photographs — all of which are reproduced in this book — showing the rhinoceros straining against something which was gradually pulling its hind-quarters deeper and deeper into the water, must convince the most skeptical. I fully agree with President Roosevelt that the theory, that the crocodile held the rhinoceros by getting a purchase with its tail round some sunken log,is not tenable, especially as Mr. Fleischmann states that “the struggle continued on down the stream, the combatants having moved quite a distance from the original point of attack.”
Personally, I find no difficulty in believing that if a very large crocodile were to seize a rhinoceros by the one hind-leg, and was sufficiently powerful to hold that limb off the ground, the largest of these animals would become almost helpless ; for if either hind-leg of a rhinoceros be broken by a bullet, the animal is rendered immediately almost incapable of movement, and very soon assumes a sitting position.
I imagine that a rhinoceros would easily be able to pull the largest of crocodiles out of water, if it was harnessed to one of these reptiles, and so could get a fair pull at it from the chest and shoulders; but I think that the paralysing effect of the crocodile’s hold on one of its hind-legs would be sufficient to account for the helplessness of the animal whose struggles and ultimate death Mr. Fleischmann witnessed in the Tana river.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:The majority of injured seals survived and recuperated rapidly. Infected wounds were rarely observed. Only three elephant seals died on the island or on the mainland following shark injury. In September 1976, an 8,5-mo-old female was found dead with numerous deep lacerations and teeth marks covering her body. In December 1977, a 1-wk-old pup washed up with its entire sacral region amputated just below the umbilicus. In February 1978, a large 7-yr-old male died on the island's main breeding beach from massive shark wounds incurred within the previous 24 h. The most serious wounds consisted of two large oval chunks of flesh missing from the left side of the thoracic region (Fig. 2e). The bites measured 61 and 69 em wide, 61 em high, and 30 cm deep. No bite penetrated the body cavity although some muscle was removed and a rib was partly exposed.

*This image is copyright of its original author

(02-16-2019, 04:30 AM)Pckts Wrote: Here's that full croc attempt on the Buffalo, you can see the Croc Swim off.

Here's a croc having a go at some buffalo very unsuccessful I might add... I think this fella needs to work on his hunting game a little bit hah

Aside from being much larger than a Croc, GWS are much faster in the water and if we are talking about any depth at all the GWS has a huge advantage since they can dive far deeper and explode up and attack whether at the surface or under water.

GWS can be quite territorial and food aggressive, especially to smaller sharks. 
The same is probably true to any Predator similar in size.

Lastly again is the massive size discrepancy between the two

Even Lolong who's the largest Saltie Ever captured would only 1/2 the weight of the largest GWS and that is at similar body lengths,
https://ourplnt.com/largest-great-white-sharks-ever-recorded/

That is just too much mass in an animal far more equipped for the open ocean IMO.

Quote:Aside from being much larger than a Croc, GWS are much faster in the water and if we are talking about any depth at all the GWS has a huge advantage since they can dive far deeper and explode up and attack whether at the surface or under water.

Quote:GWS can be quite territorial and food aggressive, especially to smaller sharks. 

The same is probably true to any Predator similar in size.

Quote:Fights between and man and crocodile is nothing new at the Bhitarkanika wildlife sanctuary in Odisha’s Kendrapara district, famous for the menacing saltwater estuarine crocodiles. But a fierce fight between two crocodiles over territorial and mating rights raised eyebrows on Tuesday.

*This image is copyright of its original author

One of the two crocodiles is believed to have been killed in the fight that lasted about 20 minutes.
A fierce fight erupted between a giant crocodile and a relatively smaller one that had sneaked into the national park a few days ago from Baitarani river, unaware of the fact that the former rules the area. The entire blood-soaked incident was captured on OST camera.
Provoked by this unwanted intrusion into his territory during the ongoing mating season, the giant crocodile pounced on the smaller one near the Khola river bridge. The muddy waters near the bridge turned red within minutes of the onslaught.
After putting up a valiant fight for a few minutes, the reptile of lesser might was seen stuck in the jaws of the monster crocodile. The latter then went down to the river bed and emerged without the prey after a few minutes suggesting that he had killed the intruder and gave it a watery burial.

Quote:The boys were first to spot the buffalo floating down the river and the huge group of crocodiles waiting for their turn to fight for it.

Mr Lehmann said at first there were six crocodiles 'wanting a piece of the action' but it came down to the two huge reptiles in his video in the end.
'The winner then proceeded to push it across the river battling a seven metre outgoing tide to store it for later,' Mr Lehmann said.

More video footage taken after the fight shows the winning crocodile - the large black one -  swimming with the buffalo. 
The fishermen were on the crocodile-infested river catching barramundi when they managed to snap the incredible  footage and photos of the fight.
Mr Lehmann said his son had seen the floating buffalo on the river on Friday - but it hadn't attracted the huge number of hungry crocodiles yet.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:“He’d come to the boat to feed and touch the boat with his tail, think it was another croc, and run for his life,” he said. “He was also terrified of logs that looked too much like crocs.”
However, since winning a few fights, he became a boss croc and got his own section of the river.
Mr Wilson said while Nifty and Agro fought fairly often, Agro was well into his 90s and would soon lose. That would mean 5.5m Nifty would be the most dominant croc in the area.
“They will fight to the death eventually, and then the winner will eat the loser to make sure he’s not coming back for another round,” Mr Wilson said.

Quote:Lastly again is the massive size discrepancy between the two

Quote:Even Lolong who's the largest Saltie Ever captured would only 1/2 the weight of the largest GWS and that is at similar body lengths