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Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Printable Version

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RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Brahim - 09-01-2021

@lionuk Sweni males, and Shishangaan males have territory on S100. N’wanetsi males used to also but they all gone now. Sweni males are in the spot N’wanetsi males used to hold. That pic you posted is the last Sweni male.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - lionuk - 09-01-2021

Kumana male lion crossing the N'wanetsi River 31/08/2021


*This image is copyright of its original author

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Tr1x24 - 09-01-2021

(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: But how do you know HRM is one of the tallest around and 3T is one of the smalles? Variation in size very well can be much bigger than this. HOw do you know there aren't around even significantly bigger males than HRM or significanly smaller than 3T? In case of 3T you could even make it quite easly as one of his brothers Dominant Tsalala male was much smaller than 3T and yet you can not know if there are not even smaller males around than Dominant Tsalala. 

Obiviously I dont know 100%, but from seeing HRM with other unrelated males thru his life (bigger then ShyBoy, Dreadlocks, Talamati and 3T) its fair to say that he is the "gruop" of bigger lions..

Is there more bigger lions then HRM? And smaller lions then 3T? Ofc there is, i didn't said it isnt, but even the size in males have limits, you dont see adult males much smaller then females, or adult males double the height of females etc. , its all under some range of size limit. 

So when we judge the size of what we believe are ones of biggest around (Scar, RRM and DM in this case) , or above average sized males, size difference between them is prob very small or unnoticable unless they stand next to each others, unlike it would be if you compare bigger lion to smaller one. 

(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: Of course most lion will be about avarage and so close in size to each others quite like humans are (https://www.theifod.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/New-height-distribution-with-legend.jpg) but how would you judge from a photo  which lion is avarage, which is under avarage, which is over avarage? You could not (unless they are in same coalition and you can see vidoe of them walking next to each others ofcourse) unlike someone see them on life.  

Seeing them next to other males and females (yea, not all females are the same size, but size difference between adult females is not that big) is only indicator we have..

So if we see a male in company of adult females and he is much bigger then them, its good indicator that this male is above average in size, unlike if different male is the same size of females or slightly bigger/smaller.. 

Best indicator is if 2 unrelated males are seen with the same female, then we can see how they compare in size to that female.

(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: Btw I am not sure S. Shishangeni and Fourways should be on your list.


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: Of course in case of related males which spends their whole life together it makes perfect sense to grow to similar size as they have similar or same genetic factor and same environmental factor. Mapogos tho are bad example there as KT and Rasta (especially Rasta) very clearly smaller than Mr T and PB who also were clearly smaller than Dred and Mak so there were quite a lot variation in size within this coalition.

Dont think size difference in Mapogos where that big as you are speaking, but it doesn't matter on this topic..

(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: What it comes to RRM and DM than the guide probably seen them on life countless of times considering for how long those males are dominant in Manyeleti. He did not see Mbiri male as much as he seen DM and RRM tho he definitelly had great visuals when Mbiri male was in Koppies with 3 Mbiri females. 
(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: I believe if a man would watch those individuals on life for enough time (could be months, years, I have no idea how much exactly would be that "enough") he would start noticing even small differences

For DM and RRM, ok, i can take that, they see them all the time, but that was prob the first time they saw Scar, he might be bigger, but i dont think it would be noticable like that. 

In the end, we need to take ranger words in this situation with grain of salt, all people have different opinions, so if 1 person said 1 thing, it doesnt mean that another will agree..

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Tr1x24 - 09-01-2021

Tshokwane male, Kruger Sightings :


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - BIGCATSXPERT - 09-01-2021

Quote:Some male lions from Kruger 
 
https://m.facebook.com/bigonwild?_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=224102779724388&id=100063740013013&set=a.121951949939472&source=48&refid=17&_ft_=mf_story_key.224102826391050%3Atop_level_post_id.224102826391050%3Atl_objid.224102826391050%3Acontent_owner_id_new.100063740013013%3Athrowback_story_fbid.224102826391050%3Apage_id.100063740013013%3Astory_location.4%3Astory_attachment_style.photo%3Atagged_locations.56769682960%3Aott.AX-xdqQtkqxyqAxH%3Atds_flgs.3%3Athid.100063740013013%3A306061129499414%3A2%3A0%3A1633071599%3A-7817649340297212991%3A%3A&__tn__=EH-R
Pls download the picture and post here if possible  Like

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - T I N O - 09-01-2021

(09-01-2021, 09:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: But how do you know HRM is one of the tallest around and 3T is one of the smalles? Variation in size very well can be much bigger than this. HOw do you know there aren't around even significantly bigger males than HRM or significanly smaller than 3T? In case of 3T you could even make it quite easly as one of his brothers Dominant Tsalala male was much smaller than 3T and yet you can not know if there are not even smaller males around than Dominant Tsalala. 

Obiviously I dont know 100%, but from seeing HRM with other unrelated males thru his life (bigger then ShyBoy, Dreadlocks, Talamati and 3T) its fair to say that he is the "gruop" of bigger lions..

Is there more bigger lions then HRM? And smaller lions then 3T? Ofc there is, i didn't said it isnt, but even the size in males have limits, you dont see adult males much smaller then females, or adult males double the height of females etc. , its all under some range of size limit. 

So when we judge the size of what we believe are ones of biggest around (Scar, RRM and DM in this case) , or above average sized males, size difference between them is prob very small or unnoticable unless they stand next to each others, unlike it would be if you compare bigger lion to smaller one. 

(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: Of course most lion will be about avarage and so close in size to each others quite like humans are (https://www.theifod.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/New-height-distribution-with-legend.jpg) but how would you judge from a photo  which lion is avarage, which is under avarage, which is over avarage? You could not (unless they are in same coalition and you can see vidoe of them walking next to each others ofcourse) unlike someone see them on life.  

Seeing them next to other males and females (yea, not all females are the same size, but size difference between adult females is not that big) is only indicator we have..

So if we see a male in company of adult females and he is much bigger then them, its good indicator that this male is above average in size, unlike if different male is the same size of females or slightly bigger/smaller.. 

Best indicator is if 2 unrelated males are seen with the same female, then we can see how they compare in size to that female.

(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: Btw I am not sure S. Shishangeni and Fourways should be on your list.


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: Of course in case of related males which spends their whole life together it makes perfect sense to grow to similar size as they have similar or same genetic factor and same environmental factor. Mapogos tho are bad example there as KT and Rasta (especially Rasta) very clearly smaller than Mr T and PB who also were clearly smaller than Dred and Mak so there were quite a lot variation in size within this coalition.

Dont think size difference in Mapogos where that big as you are speaking, but it doesn't matter on this topic..

(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: What it comes to RRM and DM than the guide probably seen them on life countless of times considering for how long those males are dominant in Manyeleti. He did not see Mbiri male as much as he seen DM and RRM tho he definitelly had great visuals when Mbiri male was in Koppies with 3 Mbiri females. 
(09-01-2021, 02:31 AM)Potato Wrote: I believe if a man would watch those individuals on life for enough time (could be months, years, I have no idea how much exactly would be that "enough") he would start noticing even small differences

For DM and RRM, ok, i can take that, they see them all the time, but that was prob the first time they saw Scar, he might be bigger, but i dont think it would be noticable like that. 

In the end, we need to take ranger words in this situation with grain of salt, all people have different opinions, so if 1 person said 1 thing, it doesnt mean that another will agree..

Lion sizes depends on many factors, of which in one of the factors is the angle from where you're taking the image and which camera plus lens you're using at that time. Of course, it's really hard to tell who's bigger between some especially lions, without having been previously measured as happened with the Black dam male who remains as the biggest lion that ever walk in Timbavati until they do a lion census again.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - T I N O - 09-01-2021

The Torchwood young male in all his glory
This is the Torchwood male born in 2014 sired by the Matimba coalition. Isn't he stunning?
Photo credits: Hanno Erasmus

*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Potato - 09-02-2021

(09-01-2021, 09:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Obiviously I dont know 100%, but from seeing HRM with other unrelated males thru his life (bigger then ShyBoy, Dreadlocks, Talamati and 3T) its fair to say that he is the "gruop" of bigger lions..
(09-01-2021, 09:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: So when we judge the size of what we believe are ones of biggest around (Scar, RRM and DM in this case) , or above average sized males, size difference between them is prob very small or unnoticable unless they stand next to each others, unlike it would be if you compare bigger lion to smaller one. 

I think a group of 5 males is way too small to make it representative group. Now Nhenha is argued by some to be the largest lion in entire Sabi Sands (which is already group much bigger than group of 5 males) and still guides which worked with Southern Matimbas and Charlestons are claiming that those are yet significantly bigger than Nhenha. 

(09-01-2021, 09:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: So if we see a male in company of adult females and he is much bigger then them, its good indicator that this male is above average in size, unlike if different male is the same size of females or slightly bigger/smaller.. 
I wonder why then you belive Mapogos to be avarage size lions even through they were looking like twice the size of lionesses around them :o 
(09-01-2021, 11:48 PM)Timbavati Wrote: measured as happened with the Black dam male who remains as the biggest lion that ever walk in Timbavati

There were no measurements made in Timbavati (beside Ximpoko and Mabande as far as I remember) and there is nothink whatsoever to backup the claim that BD was the largest lion who ever walked through Timbavati.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Tr1x24 - 09-02-2021

(09-02-2021, 02:05 AM)Potato Wrote: I think a group of 5 males is way too small to make it representative group. Now Nhenha is argued by some to be the largest lion in entire Sabi Sands (which is already group much bigger than group of 5 males) and still guides which worked with Southern Matimbas and Charlestons are claiming that those are yet significantly bigger than Nhenha. 

I didn't see anyone saying/claiming that Nhenha is bigger then S. Matimbas or Charlestons, in fact i also think he is not..

(09-02-2021, 02:05 AM)Potato Wrote: I wonder why then you belive Mapogos to be avarage size lions even through they were looking like twice the size of lionesses around them :o 

Didn't get that impression, they where impressive males, some with bulky and muscular bodies and great manes, but in my opinion i dont think any of them was noticeable above average in size.. 

If we call Mapogos above average in size, then majority of other coalitions should be called like that also, like Matimbas, Skybeds, Avoca/Giraffes, Selatis, Mantimahles, Mpondos, Shishangenis, Shishangaans etc etc.. All those guys look very big and impressive compared to females..

In fact we dont know and all is just guessing in the end..

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Potato - 09-02-2021

(09-02-2021, 02:34 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I didn't see anyone saying/claiming that Nhenha is bigger then S. Matimbas or Charlestons, in fact i also think he is not.

I meant that Nhenha is argued by some to be bigger than any other current living in SS male lion, yet still he was sinigicantly smaller than Matimbas and Charlestons.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - sik94 - 09-02-2021

(09-02-2021, 02:43 AM)Potato Wrote:
(09-02-2021, 02:34 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I didn't see anyone saying/claiming that Nhenha is bigger then S. Matimbas or Charlestons, in fact i also think he is not.

I meant that Nhenha is argued by some to be bigger than any other current living in SS male lion, yet still he was sinigicantly smaller than Matimbas and Charlestons.

Guides usually generalize though, even though Nhena was the biggest Bboy, the Bboys coalition as a whole are on the smaller side or atleast that's the reputation I noticed. S. Matimbas or Charleston Big boy were significantly bigger than the likes of Nsuku and Tinyo, Nhena is a big lion too but S. Matimbas or Charleston Big boy were definitely more impressive. Nhena is similar to Mazino probably in size, Big boy was significantly bigger than Mazino imo.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Potato - 09-02-2021

(09-02-2021, 03:15 AM)sik94 Wrote: Nhena is similar to Mazino probably in size
Guide which worked with both of them is of totally different opinion.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - sik94 - 09-02-2021

(09-02-2021, 03:46 AM)Potato Wrote:
(09-02-2021, 03:15 AM)sik94 Wrote: Nhena is similar to Mazino probably in size
Guide which worked with both of them is of totally different opinion.

link? and I did say probably.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - 239Pu - 09-02-2021

(09-02-2021, 03:15 AM)sik94 Wrote: Charleston Big boy was significantly bigger than Mazino imo.

I've read similar posts on this forum many times but they look the same size to me

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - sik94 - 09-02-2021

His belly hangs a bit lower and he definitely had atleast an inch on Mazino in terms of height. Mazino is a little more alert in the first picture too with his head up and everything.


*This image is copyright of its original author