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+--- Thread: Man-eaters (/topic-man-eaters)
RE: Man-eaters - tigerluver - 05-11-2015
There's no way around it, T24 is a habitual man-eater. Remember that long paper I posted about dealing with tiger-human conflict a while back? By this time, he's probably going to be put down or sent to captivity. Unfortunate for all parties involved.
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 05-11-2015
I heard that he may be captured and after that final decision will come
RE: Man-eaters - Pantherinae - 05-12-2015
It would be a shame to put him down. Human populations are so extream in India, and that destroys plenty of wild land, killing this tiger would most likely mean the death of several Cubs as well, take care of the few tigers left there is enough humans, actually plenty to much of human beings. Don't get me wrong I feel sad for the family and it's never fun when somebody gets killed, especially such a brave man, who dedicates his life to protect wildlife, I think the last thing he would want is the tiger dead...
RE: Man-eaters - Roflcopters - 05-12-2015
While it may seem bad to some, I think putting T24 down would be the right thing to do at this point. He has killed far too many people and two of them were honest and underpaid forest guards. At the end of the day, these people earned their living knowing the risks involved but still. Nobody deserves to die the way they did. I followed most of this story from credible people and it would seem that T24 intently killed Rampal ji by stalking him. A tiger like him is very unpredictable and could bag more innocent lives. Its only fair that he gets transferred to captivity in one of the well managed parks or put down. Similarly, things work the same in real life. You murder someone, be sure that execution or life in jail is your ultimate destiny. As much as i love ustaad and all my tigers. id choose an innocent human life over them. Also T24 was on his last life line after the three previous kills. its time to take him out. This way justice will be done and its only fair to the families that lost their loved ones to T24's brute. His behaviour is definitely not normal after the fourth death and im sure many of you will agree. Sad day but it is what it is. My heart goes out to the families that lost their means of survival and their loved ones. RIP
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 05-12-2015
I don't agree Rofl,
You said he stalk, Off course tiger are natural Stalker doesn't matter if it is human or animal.
He can not be blamed solely. Fault is from Ranthombore tiger official also. They way today tourism work in India is more for human benefit than the animals. The photographer become tour operator and tour operator become resort owner they allow countless NONSENSE going around animals. They conduct non stop tiger safari inside ustaad home, they often disturb the area, So chances are some tiger may attack human.
Ustaad is not normal tiger, He doesn't like human but he is not moving out of his territory to attack human. Its human who are doing bad things inside his home. A tiger can not be declared Man eater unless he is moving towards population/village etc to attack people regularly.
Also why the action is not taken when he attacked and killed earlier ? In fact they should have conduct a scientific research for this behavior of tiger which is not man eater, but annoyed of human.
The official has taken the decision and most probably ih will be shifted to some rehab center or may be transferred to no tourism zone
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-12-2015
Hriday ChawlaSanctuary Asia1 hr · T-24 aka Ustaad Vs Human Conflict
RTR
*This image is copyright of its original author
It deosn't matter how many people he kills IMO, a human life is worth no more or less than any other.
This has nothing to do with him, lets not forget that he is constantly harassed by humans ever where he goes, he was captured and probed and he is the King of his domain, but probably doesn't feel like one when he is forced to submit and tranq'd by a faceless enemy.
RE: Man-eaters - tigerluver - 05-13-2015
With T24 close to tourists, something will have to be done. Like it or not, the loss of ecotourism money and bad rep to the species is more significant than the loss of a single tiger from the population (my heart and mind are conflicted over this approach). Tigers are learning predators and much more social than previously thought. Last thing Ranthambore, the paradigm of tiger tourism refuge, needs is a line of tigers which are learned maneaters. Aggressive genes that T24 likely possesses will also pose as a problem to the current human-tiger situation. More relaxed specimens just work out better. I don't want to him be destroyed, but captivity maybe the least unstable option to both the tiger as a species as humans. We have to consider the folks that are rangers. I wouldn't be as motivated to do my job well of my job has a high chance of killing me.
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 01:20 AM)'tigerluver' Wrote: With T24 close to tourists, something will have to be done. Like it or not, the loss of ecotourism money and bad rep to the species is more significant than the loss of a single tiger from the population (my heart and mind are conflicted over this approach). Tigers are learning predators and much more social than previously thought. Last thing Ranthambore, the paradigm of tiger tourism refuge, needs is a line of tigers which are learned maneaters. Aggressive genes that T24 likely possesses will also pose as a problem to the current human-tiger situation. More relaxed specimens just work out better. I don't want to him be destroyed, but captivity maybe the least unstable option to both the tiger as a species as humans. We have to consider the folks that are rangers. I wouldn't be as motivated to do my job well of my job has a high chance of killing me.
He is being allowed to stay I believe, T42 is equally aggressive and a confirmed man killer as well. Im not sure what to make of the idea of "aggressive genes" since T24 or T42 both have brothers I believe who are not aggressive towards humans. You usually here about siblings who some are more aggressive than others, there are cubs or youngsters that attack jeeps and others who are extremely skiddish. I think T42 and T24 hold grudges towards us and that might be why they are aggressive. If you do yourself a favor and follow Sanctuary Asia, they are posting a ton of images of these tourists who completely disregard the roads, block these tigers from clear paths and aggitate, scream and drive towards them extremely fast. I think we must first get control of these tourists before thinking about ruining a wild animals life that is doing the only thing it knows, being wild.
These forest guards are the true victims in all of this, they love these animals and put their lives at risk to protect them. I wonder what their stance on all of this is??
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 05-13-2015
USTAAD - MAN-KILLER OR MAN-EATER?
MAN-EATING TIGERS
A man-eating tiger is a tiger who deliberately and consistently seeks out humans in order to feed on them. When the number of victims rises, humans adapt their behaviour. Same for the tiger. If he doesn't change its diet, he often has no option but to enlarge its territory.
The larger the territory, the greater the chance to surprise a victim. This is the reason man-eating tigers often had large territories. When a man-eater intrudes the territory of another tiger, chances are the intrusion will not be punished. The reason is the intruder doesn't pose a threat to another tiger.
GENERAL RULES
If there's one certainty in man-eating tigers, it's the lack of rules. Below are a number of reasons why tigers turn to humans for food at times:
- Some tigers hunt humans when they have lost their territory. This type can be found anywhere, but northern India seems to top the table. One reason could be the amount of humans living close to tigers.
- At times, as a result of a sudden change in the conditions (like a severe monsoon or human intrusion), animals disperse. Tigers than either sit it out or change their diet. When things return to normal, they often drop the new habit. This type was often found in elevated regions, again mainly in northern India.
- Pregnant females or females with very young cubs are unable to stay away for days. When they surprise a human, they could decide to turn to them for some time. When the cubs are old enough, the tigress usually drops the habit. Quite many, however, pick it up when they are pregnant again. This type of man-eater was found nearly everywhere half a century ago. K. Anderson described a number of cases.
- Young adults without a place to call home can turn to humans. Doesn't happen often, but I know of different cases. Most drop the habit when they find a place of their own.
- Tigers injured in a fight can turn to humans. Many drop the habit when they recover.
- Tigers who develop into man-eaters often have experience with humans in some way or another. A century ago, many tigers thrived on cattle in many parts of central India. When the supply was cut off (which happened every year), some of them turned to humans. In some parts of central India, man-eaters, for this reason, were as common as those who hunted wild animals. The question, of course, was if man-eaters in central India were educated by their mothers. Many think they were, but opinions differ.
- Some tigers hunt humans simply because they can, meaning the opportunity was to good to ignore. One case was described in an unknown magazin published in Siam (Thailand). Two hunters out for large wild herbivores were called to a camp where a man had been killed by a tiger only hours before. They followed the drag, shot the tiger, constructed the story and sent a letter to the magazin. The victim, a man, had been in a small pool of water in a secluded part of the forest when a tiger saw him. He killed the man when he was bending over and dragged him away. A tiger usually eats what it kills and this one was no exception. It was after his first meal that he was surprised by the two hunters. Although they missed their target, the tiger wasn't deterred and returned. This means he had no experience with humans.
- Only a small percentage of those who hunt humans for food develop into confirmed man-eaters. The statistics of some are impressive. Those who hunted them a century ago thought most confirmed man-eaters died of old age. The ones who were shot often featured in books. As those who killed them often needed many months, and sometimes even years, to connect to them, they knew a bit about the animal they hunted. Some of them wrote about their experiences. Most man-eaters roamed over huge areas. They also mixed animals with humans. In many cases, the hunter was hunted at some stage as well. Although many have the impression that people like Corbett and Anderson, who lived to tell their stories, had something extra, they could have been just lucky.
USTAAD
In spite of the very limited number of tigers today, dozens of humans are still killed in most regions every year. Although the reasons are similar to the ones discussed above, new conditions sometimes produce new reasons. My guess is mismanagement could be one of them. Let's start with the facts.
a - Today's biologists often use collars to learn about tigers. Although they opened new doors, collars also have disadvantages. It starts with sedation. A tiger has to be darted to be collared. We think nothing of it when it's done correctly and the tiger lives to tell the tale, but the experience could be different for a cat.
I saw plenty of captive big cats darted, treated and moved. I was there when they were darted, helped out and talked to vets. Some animals showed little response, whereas others, and males in particular, responded in a violent way. Tigers in particular like privacy. When you sedate, move and touch them, it can have consequences.
Maybe Ustaad took it as a breach of his privacy, maybe he saw it as an attempt to question his status and maybe it resulted in contempt. I wouldn't be surprised to find that he started stalking humans after he was first collared.
b - Ustaad's territory is close to the entrance of the reserve, meaning he is used to vehicles and people. Not good for business, as cars scare the animals he hunts. If he connects vehicles and humans (as least one tiger does in Ranthambore), a dislike or grudge could develop. Big predators often are opportunists. If Ustaad, as a result of the disturbance caused by humans, needs more energy to hunt, he could decide to turn to humans for food.
c - I recently saw a number of photographs of Ustaad near a deserted old building in the reserve. Over the years, I learned a few things about the way big cats communicate. My guess is Ustaad is an inquisitive and bold animal. Bold enough to visit the temple and bold enough to ignore humans in broad daylight. He seems to treat them in the same way as other animals. He hunts most of these, so why not hunt twolegs?
Boldness often is a result of character, but one has to remember humans put him down and touched him. For a male tiger with a territory, it means he was challenged. If he wants to stay in control, he has to show himself. Maybe he acted to show he was still master and maybe it was a result of familiarity and opportunity. Although this seems the most likely option, I don't think it was about the food. If food would be the aim, Ustaad would deliberately seek out, stalk and kill humans at every possible opportunity. This, however, wasn't the case.
d - India, in spite of the large human population, decided to save its wildlife. In order to get there and prevent inbreeding, more reserves and corridors are needed. They also need to consider tourism and the psychology of tigers. Everyone with experience knows tigers dont like to be seen. If you allow for tourism, problems have to be expected. They have to make up their mind.
CONCLUSIONS
- A confirmed man-eating tiger deliberately seeks out humans for food. When it is known there is a man-eater, villagers adapt. A confirmed man-eater usually responds by extending its territory. Ustaad doesn't behave like a typical man-eater and he doesn't hunt humans all the time. He also didn't extend his territory. Ustaad acts like a typical opportunist.
- My guess is Ustaad could have changed his behaviour towards humans when he was darted. Another thing to consider is his territory is close to the entrance of the reserve, meaning he often sees vehicles and humans. The most likely result will be familiarity. Not every tiger familiar with humans will start hunting them, but some could.
- The number of photographs and videos taken by tourists show tourism has become big business. The animals they are after, however, are elusive animals who do not like to be seen. Indian biologists and those involved in decisions know humans and wild tigers don't mix. This means a decision has to be taken.
- As for Ustaad. He could change his behaviour when tourism is abandoned. He could also be told humans are out of the question. One method is to remove him for some time. Another is to train a ranger telling him to behave. They did it with killer elephants in Africa and it could work with tigers. Amur tigers learned to stay away from humans and Indian tigers also are able to learn. When Ustaad ignores all warnings, they could decide to keep tourists and rangers away from his section. If all methods fail, the only option is to take him out.
RE: Man-eaters - sanjay - 05-13-2015
Well said and great conclusion peter.
Some more point to note - It is till not proven which tiger killed , Is it ustaad or T-72, Sultan. But most likely it was Ustaad because the way he behave when Aditya Singh and his friends arrived was like a tiger is searching his kill. But at the same time sulatn is also seen in the place where the forest guard was killed and before ustaad.
So how you can punish him without confirming?
Next, He has cub who is currently his protection, If he will be moved chances are high the new male will kill his cubs .
They are planning to move him a place called sajjangarh which is kind of rehab center but it has bad reputation of so many lost animal during rehab.
so why is T24 so charged? some even think it's aggressive.is it the traumatic experience of being tranquilized and waking up in the middle of an operation around the age of 3 or it is just a big male claiming it's territory/is it the influx of tourists that leave him no privacy ?or is it the shrinking area and growing population of tigers?no simple answers there.but it surely makes one realize it is not his fault ,we failed him.
RE: Man-eaters - tigerluver - 05-13-2015
Another thought occurred to me. T24 is very accustomed to humans. An ecological concept of the learning predator works on this idea. A carnivore must first develop the image for the prey item. Species it rarely encounters won't be on its menu. Nevertheless, being a learning predator, a species in great abundance will likely start off as an experimental target and maybe eventual regular food item. People are nonstop within these tigers' vicinities, and essentially are part of the ecosystem. The prey image may have very well formed due to the intimacy.
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-13-2015
@peter
I follow BlackJaguarWhiteTiger on Fb and Instagram, he is based out of Mexico and since mexico has recently banned big cats in zoos and circuses he has come across 40 plus more big cats.
He had to move them all from their cages to their new holding pens, he specifically mentioned that he doesn't dart the big cats becasue he doesn't like the effect that sedation has on them, especially Tigers. Which he says are extremely sensitive to it..
My question is this:
Did you notice a difference between species when sedated or is it an individual response?
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-13-2015
Here is a great post on what makes Ranth Different than any where elseVirag SharmaShristhi Foundation Follow · July 24, 2014 · Edited ·
#EcoSnap
Human Conflicts
Pic on Global Tiger Day.
When we say Human Conflicts , things come in Mind is villagers. Mostly staying near to National Park. But now days we tourist also equally responsible for same. Following pic will say more , where tiger is surrounded by VIP jeeps @ Ranthambore National Park Jun-14 — with Danish Aalam, Arun Ahuja, Nishith Gupta, Ashish Dwivedi, Raees Bhai and Vipul Gupta at Ranthambhore National Park.
Harsh Kothari This is very common in Ranthambhore, many occasions due to VIP visitors. Ironically VIP gypsies in other parks could be in range of 10% ofl tourists vehicle, whereas in Ranthambhore it is in excess of 100%. It is the modesty and gentlemen behaviour of animals, thought provoking for such people.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Man-eaters - Pckts - 05-14-2015
Prabha Narayan shared Bina Kak-Politician,Actor,Social Activist's post to the group: Sanctuary Asia.1 hr · Sharing a view point #savet24
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
"Is this really the picture of a maneater ??
Disturbed by the news of T24 mauling a guard and the tragic loss of life I pondered over the several years of my close encounters with T24 in Ranthambhor forest,
On several occasions' T24 crossed the patrolling jeep I was traveling in at close quarters. A powerful adult in its prime ,our eyes had locked each time ,for that brief moment as he checked us out and ambled away .I never saw even a hint of aggression in the placid ember pools ,only momentary curiosity as he moved away with hardly a grimace or reaction, this was in sharp contrast to my interaction with others like T 25 and T whose body language and eyes held that slightly hard stroppy look and the "this is my domain stance " the active twitching tail betraying the resentment..
I am posting a sequence of photos of when T24 suddenly emerged from the jungles right in front of our jeep.
We could see 3 women pilgrims on way to the temple walking thru the forest towards us ... When T24 suddenly emerged from the forest on our left on to the road. He spotted the women ,they froze in their tracks . he gave them a look.. we werealready moving back ..my camera was on multiple click mode and I managed to capture a sequence that speaks for its self..
Photo 1. women on road.. tiger T24 emerges suddenly..spots the women ,who were singing, gives them a look…women freeze , song forgotten .. our jeep reverses to give T24 space .
2. T 24 turns away..does not even look at our jeep and crosses the road.
3. Is this the face of a maneater.. belly is shrunk so hadn't eaten.. not even curious but in a hurry to get back to the security of his forest.
Interestingly. According to some reports several guards who were witness to the incident rushed to the spot shouting..and waving sticks..T24 moved away .
The tiger is the most powerful powerful predator on the planet..a deep full blooded growl of a tiger would have sent everyone scampering. But we heard of no growl or charge…he left the spot and did not attempt to drag it or eat it. A predator always defends its kill.
The question you need to ask is why did he move away so easily. 2. Was he defending his territory… What was the provocation if any.? Is moving him away to a zoo the solution ?
It is also reported that T24 killed a sambhar just a little later after the incident…he also returned to the spot and kept sniffing the area..
A viable solution needs to be arrived at…quickfix is not the answer…greater challenges lie ahead as the tiger population expands and habitat keeps
These pictures were taken by me in 2013"
My Thoughts:
Its amazing this doesn't happen more often, look how encrouched these tigers are by us, if we wan't to invade their territory then we must understand the risk and while its unfortunate when incidents happen, they are extremely rare and the tiger shouldn't be punished for being a Tiger.
Its a tough predicament to be in, but their rights need to be protected just like ours and they must be allowed to live by the rules of the jungle not the rules that we as people feel we're entitled to.
RE: Man-eaters - Pantherinae - 05-18-2015
I heard that Ustad was taken to Captivity...... so sad!!!!
Suspected of killing guard, T-24 shifted from Ranthambore
The nine-year-long reign of Ranthambore's tiger T-24 came to an abrupt end on Saturday. After blaming the big cat for killing a forest guard on May 8, an allegation which many wildlife activists believed had not been proved, the forest department abruptly shifted the tiger popularly known as Ustad to Udaipur's Sajjangarh Biological Park, some 500 km from its territory in Ranthambore Tiger Reserve.
The tiger was tranquilized at around 10.30 am on Saturday and was then set on a nearly 11-hour-long journey to the biological park in a cage. The day temperature was hovering around 40 degree Celsius but ice was stocked and water was sprinkled in the cage to keep it cool for the big cat.
A team of 12 reserve officials and doctors accompanied the canter carrying the cage. The tiger's territory that was spread over 30-40 square kilometer in Ranthambore will now be confined to an enclosure measuring nearly half-a-hectare in the biological park.
Forest officials moved the tiger claiming that it has killed four people in five years, lost fear of humans and become a man-killer.Wildlife activists and conservationists were shocked as they had been assured by the state government that T-24 wouldn't be shifted without a proper enquiry. They are crying foul because they believe it was not proved if T-24 had killed forest guard Rampal Mali on May 8.
Some believed that it was T-72 who killed the guard but T-24 was blamed for the killing.In fact, a committee's formation was underway to decide on the fate of T-24 but sources said bowing to a small but powerful section of hotel lobby in Ranthambore, a senior forest official abruptly decided to shift the tiger on Friday evening.
Sources even said the minister of state for forest and wildlife Rajkumar Rinwa who had promised to postpone the shifting and initiate an enquiry by forming a committee was kept in the dark as the chief minister's office (CMO) had directly intervened."We had been tracking the tiger since last night. After 9 am, T-24 was spotted in Magrad area in the reserve's zone number 2 with tigress T-39, popularly known as Noor. T-24 has fathered two male cubs with Noor," said a reserve official.
T-24 and T-39 were near a Sambar deer that one of them had killed. "T-24 was trying to scare away T-39. At around 9.15 am, T-39 strode away. Different teams of officials surrounded the tiger. Dr Rajeev Garg, a veterinarian, tranquilized the tiger at around 10.30 am. It drifted into unconsciousness an hour later. It was then put into a cage," said the officer.
The officer added that at around 1 pm, the canter carrying the cage left the reserve for Sajjangarh Biological Park. The shifting of the tiger was kept as a low key affair to the extent that even the Sajjangarh Biological Park officials had not been intimidated about the shift officially till afternoon."T-24 had killed forest guard Rampal Mali on May 8.
The next day we were told to be prepared for the shift of the tiger to Sajjangarh. We were prepared but we didn't receive any order from Jaipur authorities or from Ranthambore National Park on Saturday. If it comes, it would be kept in an enclosure," said T Mohan Raj, deputy conservator of forest.
Sources said reserve officials had not sought any permission from Nation Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA). "We don't require permission. The chief wildlife warden can authorize the relocation," said a forest official.
Nine-year-old T-24, that ruled Ranthambore as the largest tiger here, has attracted tourists from all over the world and never disappointed them. He was often clicked sitting on roads, near hotels and the Ganesh temple.Other than the guard, the tiger was blamed for killing 23-year-old Ghamandi Lal Saini on July 3, 2010, a 19-year-old boy in March 2012 and an assistant forester in October 2012.
Ustad's reign ends
Ranthambore's tiger T-24, popularly knows as Ustad, is has been shifted to Udaipur's Sajjangarh Biological ParkForest officials moved the tiger claiming that it has killed four people in five years, lost fear of humans and become a man-killer
Wildlife activists and conservationists are shocked at the move as they had been assured by the state government that T-24 wouldn't be shifted without a proper enquiryThe tiger was tranquilized at 10.30 am on Saturday and was then set on a nearly 11-hour-long journey to the biological park in a cage
A team of 12 reserve officials and doctors accompanied the canter carrying the cage
The tiger's territory, that was spread over 30-40 square km in Ranthambore, will now be confined to an enclosure measuring nearly half-a-hectare