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+----- Thread: Leopard Predation Thread (/topic-leopard-predation-thread)
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Styx38 - 09-27-2019
Another Leopard with an Onager kill
*This image is copyright of its original author
"In 2002, an adult male leopard was filmed on an onager kill."
http://www.yemenileopard.org/files/cms/reports/No._4_September_and_October_2010.pdf
@Pckts I found this statement on African Leopards in wikipedia:
"Though leopards do not usually feed on equids as in Africa, this may be because Persian leopards are larger and strong enough to prey on Asiatic wild asses."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onager
^ Do you agree or disagree with this statement. If so, do you have any cases of them killing horses in Africa? I know there are some incidents of Leopards killing Zebras, but are there any cases of them killing adult horses on farms?
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Pckts - 09-27-2019
(09-27-2019, 07:18 AM)Styx38 Wrote: Another Leopard with an Onager killIf I remember correctly according to almeida, cougars are responsible for more horse deaths than cattle in comparison to Jaguars.
*This image is copyright of its original author
"In 2002, an adult male leopard was filmed on an onager kill."
http://www.yemenileopard.org/files/cms/reports/No._4_September_and_October_2010.pdf
@Pckts I found this statement on African Leopards in wikipedia:
"Though leopards do not usually feed on equids as in Africa, this may be because Persian leopards are larger and strong enough to prey on Asiatic wild asses."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onager
^ Do you agree or disagree with this statement. If so, do you have any cases of them killing horses in Africa? I know there are some incidents of Leopards killing Zebras, but are there any cases of them killing adult horses on farms?
I'll confirm that tomorrow and post the scan when I can.
If that's correct than I'd say a leopard should have no problem doing the same regardless of the location.
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Pckts - 09-27-2019
(09-27-2019, 08:01 AM)Pckts Wrote:(09-27-2019, 07:18 AM)Styx38 Wrote: Another Leopard with an Onager killIf I remember correctly according to almeida, cougars are responsible for more horse deaths than cattle in comparison to Jaguars.
*This image is copyright of its original author
"In 2002, an adult male leopard was filmed on an onager kill."
http://www.yemenileopard.org/files/cms/reports/No._4_September_and_October_2010.pdf
@Pckts I found this statement on African Leopards in wikipedia:
"Though leopards do not usually feed on equids as in Africa, this may be because Persian leopards are larger and strong enough to prey on Asiatic wild asses."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onager
^ Do you agree or disagree with this statement. If so, do you have any cases of them killing horses in Africa? I know there are some incidents of Leopards killing Zebras, but are there any cases of them killing adult horses on farms?
I'll confirm that tomorrow and post the scan when I can.
If that's correct than I'd say a leopard should have no problem doing the same regardless of the location.
Here you go
*This image is copyright of its original author
and doing a quick search a few more cases below
Amur leopard suspected of attacking rare horses on farm
https://siberiantimes.com/ecology/others/news/n0254-amur-leopard-suspected-of-attacking-rare-horses-on-farm/
Even Snow Leopards kills Horses often
http://www.snowleopardnetwork.org/bibliography/Johansson_et_al_2015.pdf
Endangered snow leopards dine on livestock like goats and horses
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2120823-endangered-snow-leopards-dine-on-livestock-like-goats-and-horses/
Indian Leopards
Horse killed in leopard attack at Ambegaon
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/horse-killed-in-leopard-attack-at-ambegaon/articleshow/71239041.cms
Leopard kills horse in Karad
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolhapur/Leopard-kills-horse-in-Karad/articleshow/53938246.cms
Cougars killing Horses
Cougar Kills Horse at Spanish Creek
https://www.backpacker.com/trips/cougar-kills-horse-spanish
This Northern California mountain lion is a serial killer — of horses
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-modoc-county-lion-20181029-htmlstory.html
Mountain lion kills horse
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_220c4596-088a-11e4-9b71-001a4bcf887a.html
Now in regards to African Leopards, I'm not sure where horses and African Leopards would even cross path's, In the Serengeti and Crater cattle is grazed but I never saw a single horse and the Massai make sure to hunt down any animal that kills their cattle so they don't last long.
Now I ask you @
After seeing how common Leopards and Cougars prey on Horses, do you think that claim of Persians is wrong?
Because I've never said that Persian Leopards couldn't get large, so I'm curious as to your point?
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Styx38 - 09-28-2019
@Pckts
I understand that Leopards have great capabilities within their subspecies. I just wanted to find Leopards preying on horses to prove wikipedia wrong.
Also, I posted the Snow Leopard with the Zaniskari horse kill. Zaniskaris are around the same weight of light riding horses and approx. 10x bigger than the Snow Leopard.
Anyway, here is the closest thing I could find of African Leopards killing horses:
Quote:What are the perceived problem predators? Hyenas were thought to prey mostly on cattle (33% of reported kills presumed to be due to hyenas) and donkeys (40%), jackals were implicated most often for goat (69%) and sheep (68%)kills, leopards for horses (50%)
Source: "Cost of carnivore coexistence on communal and resettled land in Namibia" by Niki Rust and Laurie Marker
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247668488_Cost_of_carnivore_coexistence_on_communal_and_resettled_land_in_Namibia
I am only unsure if these were adult horses or foals killed by the Leopard.
RE: Gorilla strength - myths and reality - Roberto - 09-28-2019
(09-27-2019, 10:22 PM)Shadow Wrote:(09-27-2019, 09:00 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: From my observation, gorillas are generally underrated. Despite their relatively thin skin, gorillas are very powerful animals.
In what way underrated? Many people seem to think, that they are as strong as elephants even though they are just 150-200 kg and impossible to find anything to back up claims about "superstrength". Feel free to give some reasoning. I mean something else, that they look like powerful. Gorillas arm can look thick, but put it side by side with some other big animal and it´s not as thick anymore.
(09-28-2019, 12:15 AM)Sully Wrote: I have to agree with shadow. The very fact that gorilla vs brown bear is popular and considered a debateable topic by many shows how overrated they are. Many dont even know they're preyed upon by leopards. In fact I think they might be the most overrated animal, and I'm a fan of the great apes.
(09-28-2019, 01:48 AM)Shadow Wrote:(09-28-2019, 12:15 AM)Sully Wrote: I have to agree with shadow. The very fact that gorilla vs brown bear is popular and considered a debateable topic by many shows how overrated they are. Many dont even know they're preyed upon by leopards. In fact I think they might be the most overrated animal, and I'm a fan of the great apes.
Sully, Leopards are way overrated. And people know leopards hunt gorillas sure, just not the Silverbacks. The subadult and female gorillas they hunt, its done by ambush. From the back. Hardly an accomplishment.
RE: Gorilla strength - myths and reality - Sully - 09-28-2019
@
RE: Gorilla strength - myths and reality - Roberto - 09-28-2019
How many documented cases of leopards attacking silverbacks though? 1, 2, or 3 at most? Those are abnormal events, not the norm. Leopards usually avoid silverbacks and i also posted some accounts of this. You say gorillas are overrated, well i say leopards are way overrated.
RE: Gorilla strength - myths and reality - Roberto - 09-28-2019
If a leopard or other threat comes near, the Silverback swings into action. Usually, the leopard will slink away into the forest.
*This image is copyright of its original author
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_156963257920414&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k12umkk30102ylrr000MA5ageh936&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F209%2Fold-school-gorilla%3Fpage%3D3&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DE_SK4gbJgVcC%26q%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26dq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwiR4azkk6vgAhVLtlkKHU8-Cb04PBDoATAAegQIARAD&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthreads%2Frecent%3Fpage%3D4&title=The%20Old%20School%20Gorilla%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=books.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DE_SK4gbJgVcC%26amp%3Bq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26amp%3Bdq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills...
RE: Gorilla strength - myths and reality - Shadow - 09-28-2019
(09-28-2019, 06:07 AM)Roberto Wrote: If a leopard or other threat comes near, the Silverback swings into action. Usually, the leopard will slink away into the forest.
*This image is copyright of its original author
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_156963257920414&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k12umkk30102ylrr000MA5ageh936&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F209%2Fold-school-gorilla%3Fpage%3D3&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DE_SK4gbJgVcC%26q%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26dq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwiR4azkk6vgAhVLtlkKHU8-Cb04PBDoATAAegQIARAD&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthreads%2Frecent%3Fpage%3D4&title=The%20Old%20School%20Gorilla%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=books.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DE_SK4gbJgVcC%26amp%3Bq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26amp%3Bdq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills...
This thread is about gorilla strength, not about leopard predation concerning gorillas etc. Leopards have killed a lot of gorillas, including silverbacks. But if more about it in this thread, I move postings to some more suitable thread. I think, that in leopard predation thread there are several cases, where silverbacks have been killed by leopards and so on. But in this thread that is meaningless, this thread is for pure physical strength.
RE: Gorilla strength - myths and reality - Roberto - 09-28-2019
(09-28-2019, 09:52 AM)Shadow Wrote:(09-28-2019, 06:07 AM)Roberto Wrote: If a leopard or other threat comes near, the Silverback swings into action. Usually, the leopard will slink away into the forest.
*This image is copyright of its original author
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_156963257920414&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k12umkk30102ylrr000MA5ageh936&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F209%2Fold-school-gorilla%3Fpage%3D3&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DE_SK4gbJgVcC%26q%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26dq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwiR4azkk6vgAhVLtlkKHU8-Cb04PBDoATAAegQIARAD&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthreads%2Frecent%3Fpage%3D4&title=The%20Old%20School%20Gorilla%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=books.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DE_SK4gbJgVcC%26amp%3Bq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26amp%3Bdq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills...
This thread is about gorilla strength, not about leopard predation concerning gorillas etc. Leopards have killed a lot of gorillas, including silverbacks. But if more about it in this thread, I move postings to some more suitable thread. I think, that in leopard predation thread there are several cases, where silverbacks have been killed by leopards and so on. But in this thread that is meaningless, this thread is for pure physical strength.
"Leopards have killed alot of gorillas"
True, but inform the people here that most are females and subadults. And done by ambush, not a head on fight.
"Including silverbacks"
Like i said above, maybe 3 documented cases in history, thats it Shadow. And again, By ambush tactics, face to face, the cat either runs away or dies, simple as this. We have to inform this to the people so there is no misinformation here.
In a fair, strictly face to face battle, this happens:
https://youtu.be/HP-6wG_wZ8A
RE: Gorilla strength - myths and reality - Sully - 09-28-2019
@
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Shadow - 09-28-2019
@Sully @
But if discussion goes to old circles, it´s good to notice when better to stop. I personally am convinced, that leopards are capable to kill even silverback gorilla without surprise element if necessary. Then again I personally think, that it´s not without risk. If someone wants to convince me to believe in some other way, just wasting time. But if someone believes, that not possible, then that is what he/she believes and I really don´t care. What I am interested is good information to see and then consider it. Some discussion is always nice, but not when it starts to be yes-no in endless circle.
I would recommend, that people interested about leopard-gorilla issue check this thread a few pages backwords to avoid repeating all, what was said just 1-2 months ago.
In all cases, let´s keep this discussion here, not spreading it to as many threads as possible, it just creates unnecessary chaos.
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Roberto - 09-28-2019
(09-28-2019, 02:46 PM)Sully Wrote: @RobertoTo think that all observed cases are all the cases that have ever occurred is irrational. The places this interaction occurs isn't human friendly. Also I still dont get why you're bringing "fair" into this, why would the leopard give up its biggest advantage in surprise?
And i agree, in the wild there should be more cases than we know of, but we still have to go with the documented cases, other than that its just speculating.
"why would the leopard give up its biggest advantage in surprise?"
Am glad we agree then. I am just making sure the people reading this dont get confused and think that ambush hunting is the same as a head on fight, thats all.
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Roberto - 09-28-2019
Just know this guys:
THERE ARE ALSO RELIABLE REPORTS OF GORILLAS BENDING RIFLE BARRELS IN HALF AND KILLING LEOPARDS BY SNAPPING THEIR NECKS.
*This image is copyright of its original author
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_156966562681610&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k13ebv4m0102ylrr000MA5ageh936&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F209%2Fold-school-gorilla%3Fpage%3D3&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DHF4OAQAAMAAJ%26q%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26dq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwjUmdfdlqvgAhUNuVkKHSavAaM43AEQ6AEwB3oECAEQIw&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthreads%2Frecent%3Fpage%3D4&title=The%20Old%20School%20Gorilla%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=books.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DHF4OAQAAMAAJ%26amp%3Bq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills%2Bleopard%26amp%3Bdq%3DSilverback%2Bgorilla%2Busually%2Bkills...
RE: Leopard Predation Thread - Luipaard - 09-28-2019
@
You're aware that this leopard population differs from others right? They're far more robust compared to other leopard subspecies/populations bar the Persian leopards in Northern Iran. They're the apex predator and prey upon red river hogs and young forest buffalo.
Regarding silverbacks:
Quote:When the group is attacked by humans, leopards, or other gorillas, an individual silverback will protect the group, even at the cost of his own life.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla#Competition
This kind of event actually happened:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Sure, females and young ones may fall victim more regularly than silverbacks. But fact is that all gorilla's, including silverbacks, are prey for leopards.
Also, do you really believe a gorilla would have the intelligence to snap a leopards neck? Pretty sure it would just charge a leopard and starts slamming with his arms as can be seen here where a silverback thinks he encounters a rival:
Look, gorilla's are strong no doubt. They're far more stronger than us as can be seen here:
But leopards have known to have taken down wildebeests, zebra's, okapi's and even young giraffes.
What makes you think they'll back down when a silverback confronts a leopard? Not forgetting the leopards they face are physically superior to other leopards in Africa or India.