(11-19-2020, 09:03 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?

I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:

1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage. 
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive. 
 
Then honorable mentions:

1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides  and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had. 
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into.
3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier. 


Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as what Ross males did to Birmingham male.  He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life. 

(11-19-2020, 09:14 PM)TinoArmando Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 09:03 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?

I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:

1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage. 
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive. 
 
Then honorable mentions:

1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides  and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had. 
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into.
3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier. 


Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as what Ross males did to Birmingham male.  He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life. 

That's a great choice. 

 Anyway,I often think that the Xikukutsu male didn't had a hard life. Those two never became nomadic and had to move out by unwanted areas with dominant males constantly roaring and chasing them off. It's most, I'm 101% sure about that them had a more easy life than the "Nkuhuma male" as you have mentioned above.

(11-19-2020, 09:03 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?

I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:

1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage. 
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive. 
 
Then honorable mentions:

1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides  and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had. 
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into.
3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier. 


Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as what Ross males did to Birmingham male.  He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life. 

(11-19-2020, 08:38 PM)Nathan Aiden Wrote: Western sabisands rangers need to put some respect on the legend that is Hairy Belly Matimba.

There are many videos of displaying HB as a burden and never using a bit of praise or the words he deserves. Counting him out on many occasions.

They seem to not remember that this Male fought legendary Mapogos and Majingelanes which no coalition dared to face them..

And he is considered one of the greatest for a reason... Perhaps a very lions have this honour..

(11-19-2020, 09:26 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 09:14 PM)TinoArmando Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 09:03 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?

I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:

1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage. 
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive. 
 
Then honorable mentions:

1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides  and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had. 
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into.
3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier. 


Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as what Ross males did to Birmingham male.  He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life. 

That's a great choice. 

 Anyway,I often think that the Xikukutsu male didn't had a hard life. Those two never became nomadic and had to move out by unwanted areas with dominant males constantly roaring and chasing them off. It's most, I'm 101% sure about that them had a more easy life than the "Nkuhuma male" as you have mentioned above.

What it come to uninjured Xikukutsu then for sure. What it comes to injured one then I imagine life with so rough injury, but with the back up of the pride is still more harash than standard nomadic life. Again I feel there is need to mention that Nkuchuma male nomadic life wasn't particularly rough like for example Tumbela's nomadic life.

(11-19-2020, 09:45 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Your definition of harsh life comes from injuries alone. Injuries do not make a lions life hard, there are many more factors. Number 1, the Nkuhuma Young male was around his natal pride but was still forced out at the age of 2 years old,not 3. He stuck around but was not spoon fed by his pride. He lost his partner and mother and dissappeared for months. How do you know he didnt starve during that time? He returned with less mane than he had when he dissappeared. His body is covered in scars and cuts. The Nkuhuma Young Male might have not had an injury like the Birmingham Young Male but injuries are not the only thing that makes a life harder. The Birmingham Young Male survived because his pride fed him. All he had to do was keep up. Which I take no credit away from him for. On the other hand though, the Nkuhuma Young Male had to hunt for himself many times and was constantly chased off of kills by the Avocas or Hyenas. Belly Scar had 3 brothers and sister he could rely on. The Mbiri Males still had each other to rely on. The Birmingham Young Male had an injury but was still spoonfed by his pride up until now. The Nkuhuma Young Male didn't have that privilege, having to hunt since he was 2 years old and losing his partner and mother. He also had to fight the Avoca males getting into many scraps with Mohawk and showing great courage by standing up to them. I'm not sure you are aware of the Nkuhuma Males rough life. You said he had the standard life of a lion? I'm sorry but that's bullshit. No standard lion had to endure what he did. Even though he was accepted into the Styx Pride this year, he had to take a massive beating to be allowed to do so. He had to survive alot more than just an injury.

(11-19-2020, 10:36 PM)TinoArmando Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 09:26 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 09:14 PM)TinoArmando Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 09:03 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?

I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:

1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage. 
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive. 
 
Then honorable mentions:

1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides  and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had. 
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into.
3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier. 


Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as what Ross males did to Birmingham male.  He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life. 

That's a great choice. 

 Anyway,I often think that the Xikukutsu male didn't had a hard life. Those two never became nomadic and had to move out by unwanted areas with dominant males constantly roaring and chasing them off. It's most, I'm 101% sure about that them had a more easy life than the "Nkuhuma male" as you have mentioned above.

What it come to uninjured Xikukutsu then for sure. What it comes to injured one then I imagine life with so rough injury, but with the back up of the pride is still more harash than standard nomadic life. Again I feel there is need to mention that Nkuchuma male nomadic life wasn't particularly rough like for example Tumbela's nomadic life.

Both of the Xikukutsu males didn't had a hard life. They were on their comfort zone and spending their majority of their time with the Avoca pride,and often the Monwana pride.  Without count that they were associated with Mapoza male, which means that the injured Xikukutsu male  wasn't alone and It's could be almost impossible that he will died for starvation. 
Different circumstances of life in both males after all

(11-19-2020, 09:45 PM)Slayerd Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 09:03 PM)Potato Wrote:

(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?

I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:

1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage. 
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive. 
 
Then honorable mentions:

1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides  and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had. 
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into.
3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier. 


Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as what Ross males did to Birmingham male.  He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life. 

Your definition of harsh life comes from injuries alone. Injuries do not make a lions life hard, there are many more factors. Number 1, the Nkuhuma Young male was around his natal pride but was still forced out at the age of 2 years old,not 3. He stuck around but was not spoon fed by his pride. He lost his partner and mother and dissappeared for months. How do you know he didnt starve during that time? He returned with less mane than he had when he dissappeared. His body is covered in scars and cuts. The Nkuhuma Young Male might have not had an injury like the Birmingham Young Male but injuries are not the only thing that makes a life harder. The Birmingham Young Male survived because his pride fed him. All he had to do was keep up. Which I take no credit away from him for. On the other hand though, the Nkuhuma Young Male had to hunt for himself many times and was constantly chased off of kills by the Avocas or Hyenas. Belly Scar had 3 brothers and sister he could rely on. The Mbiri Males still had each other to rely on. The Birmingham Young Male had an injury but was still spoonfed by his pride up until now. The Nkuhuma Young Male didn't have that privilege, having to hunt since he was 2 years old and losing his partner and mother. He also had to fight the Avoca males getting into many scraps with Mohawk and showing great courage by standing up to them. I'm not sure you are aware of the Nkuhuma Males rough life. You said he had the standard life of a lion? I'm sorry but that's bullshit. No standard lion had to endure what he did. Even though he was accepted into the Styx Pride this year, he had to take a massive beating to be allowed to do so. He had to survive alot more than just an injury.

(11-20-2020, 12:24 AM)Potato Wrote: Othawa pride

(11-20-2020, 02:28 AM)Gijima Wrote:

(11-20-2020, 12:24 AM)Potato Wrote: Othawa pride

The video is blank? Might just be me...

(11-20-2020, 02:28 AM)Gijima Wrote: The video is blank? Might just be me...

(11-20-2020, 02:44 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(11-20-2020, 02:28 AM)Gijima Wrote: The video is blank? Might just be me...

To me all videos like that are completely white... I guess posting like that doesnt work anymore or what.. 

Maybe better just post a link to an video..