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+----- Thread: Othawa Pride (/topic-othawa-pride)
RE: Othawa Pride - Duco Ndona - 09-29-2022
Same here. I know its just lions doing lion stuff.
But if we insist on doing the whole legend and king gig and it isn't all just pointless fluff born out of blind devotion. Then its safe to say the Nhenha is rapidly destroying his reputation and is more deserving of the title of butcher at this point. Its really annoying how some animals are always put on a undeserved pedestal while their ugly side is often wilfully ignored.
A good reason why its good to keep some emotional distance and not create needless narratives. Any of those animals can in theory pull a stunt like this. The current victims, the Othawa pride themselves for example decimated the Ximhungwe pride not that long ago.
RE: Othawa Pride - Tr1x24 - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 12:42 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: But if we insist on doing the whole legend and king gig and it isn't all just pointless fluff born out of blind devotion. Then its safe to say the Nhenha is rapidly destroying his reputation and may be more deserving of the title of butcher at this point.
Destroying reputation?
He is just a lion doing lion stuff.
Lions will kill other lions, they are not "evil" or "butchers" because of it, their society works like that.
We cant look and judge lions thru our moral principles, they are animals for gods sake.
Its like me judging my cat when she catches a mouse outside and then she plays with poor mouse until mouse eventually dies/gets killed. Will i hate my cat then? Because she has no moral? Lmao.
Leave animals to be animals.
RE: Othawa Pride - BorntobeWild - 09-29-2022
It is we HUMAN' s fault. We humans are too greedy and have taken over too much wildlife's land. Otherwise, Othawa Pride would not be cornered and nowhere to escape. Birmingham male just does what a lion king is supposed to do.
RE: Othawa Pride - 1ofCourage - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 12:57 AM)东方琳琅STD Wrote: It is we HUMAN' s fault. We humans are too greedy and have taken over too much wildlife's land. Otherwise, Othawa Pride would not be cornered and nowhere to escape. Birmingham male just does what a lion king is supposed to do.
In this case one could say it's the animal that had TB's fault. If two of the Tumbela male's had not died of TB, things might not be so dire.
Humans without fathers suffer, and cubs without fathers who are pride males suffer and often die, too.
Sassy is the ONLY defense for those cubs other than pure luck. She looks pretty worked over, so she may have successfully saved some or all of them.
But how many times can she do that? And where are the cubs now? Are they together, being tracked now by Nhenha, lost or injured?
RE: Othawa Pride - Duco Ndona - 09-29-2022
But thats the issue isnt it.
Normally we bury those animals with adoration. We call them legends, kings. They are wise animals, good fathers, brave protectors and so on and so on.
But the minute something scatters that view. Its suddenly animals doing animal stuff and we shouldn't project attributes on them like that.
All I am saying is that we either should do neither. Or be fair and do both. If there are kings, there are butchers.
Otherwise we risk telling a very one sided story.
Regardless. Humans or not, The Othawa pride would still be trapped. If there wasn't a fence or some other manmade border, it would have been some rival pride or coalition attacking them if they leave their territory.
Also, the lions weren't complaining when the fences protected them from rivals during all those years of peace western sector endured.
RE: Othawa Pride - afortich - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 12:49 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(09-29-2022, 12:42 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: But if we insist on doing the whole legend and king gig and it isn't all just pointless fluff born out of blind devotion. Then its safe to say the Nhenha is rapidly destroying his reputation and may be more deserving of the title of butcher at this point.
Destroying reputation?
He is just a lion doing lion stuff.
Lions will kill other lions, they are not "evil" or "butchers" because of it, their society works like that.
We cant look and judge lions thru our moral principles, they are animals for gods sake.
Its like me judging my cat when she catches a mouse outside and then she plays with poor mouse until mouse eventually dies/gets killed. Will i hate my cat then? Because she has no moral? Lmao.
Leave animals to be animals.
I agree with you. We need to be objective and let animals be animals disregarding our attachments or preferences for some of them.
RE: Othawa Pride - sik94 - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 01:15 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Normally we bury those animals with adoration. We call them legends, kings. They are wise animals, good fathers, brave protectors and so on and so on.We adore these animals because we appreciate nature. They are still just animals doing animal stuff, calling a lion brave or a good father is just us enforcing human ideals on them. It's wrong to criticize a wild animal for behaving the way they evolved to, especially since they do not possess the same kind of emotional intelligence or morality as us to know any better.
We adore these animals because we appreciate nature. They are still just animals doing animal stuff, calling a lion brave or a good father is just us enforcing human ideals on them. It's wrong to criticize a wild animal for behaving the way they evolved to, especially since they do not possess the same kind of emotional intelligence or morality as us to know any better.
But the minute something scatters that view. Its suddenly animals doing animal stuff and we shouldn't project attributes on them like that.
(09-29-2022, 01:15 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: All I am saying is that we either should do neither. Or be fair and do both. If there are kings, there are butchers.Calling a lion king doesn't necessarily mean they are brave or good fathers or have any such 'positive' attributes. Kings have done some terrible things in human history and being called king isn't necessarily a compliment either, we remember them as power hungry rulers who abused their people and their power. Being called a king in the lion world just means they have a territory, they fought other lions and took their territory or 'throne'. Calling a lion a butcher is just wrong and unnecessary, it implies a level of malicious intent only a human is capable of. And I don't buy this dichotomy that if we call lions king we should also call them butchers, lions work on instinct and anthropomorphizing them by placing intent on their behavior is wrong, be it positive or negative.
Otherwise we risk telling a very one sided story.
RE: Othawa Pride - Duco Ndona - 09-29-2022
Again. I agree that they are animals doing animal stuff.
But the point still stands. We only have this debate when people atribute negative labels to the lions. While not a day goes by without seeing people doing it in a positive manner.
Like it or not, by calling them king. You are still anthropormising them. It is afteral a label we got from media such as the lion king. Not one used by serious scientific papers.
I really doubt that all those people calling Nhenha a legendary king are, going to mention his massacre of the Othawa pride when talking about his life.
Would it really be that bad to correct them by pointing out that their beloved king wasnt as royal as they make him out to be.
RE: Othawa Pride - Tr1x24 - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 09:59 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I really doubt that all those people calling Nhenha a legendary king are, going to mention his massacre of the Othawa pride when talking about his life.
Would it really be that bad to correct them by pointing out that their beloved king wasnt as royal as they make him out to be.
Those descriptions (legends, kings, queens, princess, etc.) are metaphoric, and nothing else.
There is no kings, queens etc, this is just use as metaphor for lion who rules and owns territory.
Legend is also used as metaphor for certain lion who marks certain period in certain area, example, legend of Sabi Sands or legend of Timbavati.
Mapogos, Majingilanes, Bboys etc. killed numerous lions in their reign, but that doesnt take away that they are legends of Sabi Sands, as killing other lions is normal behavior in their world, killing other lion doesnt make them "evil" or "butchers".
RE: Othawa Pride - Duco Ndona - 09-29-2022
So when lions do normal things like holding territories we are allowed to use metaphors like kings and legend.
Even though I have yet to see a lion wear a golden crown and sit on a throne.
Then why arent we allowed to use metaphors like butcher when they do normal things like slaughtering a pride?
RE: Othawa Pride - WildRev - 09-29-2022
@Duco Ndona enough with your drama
RE: Othawa Pride - Tr1x24 - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 11:39 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: So when lions do normal things like holding territories we are allowed to use metaphors like kings and legend.
Even though I have yet to see a lion wear a golden crown and sit on a throne.
Then why arent we allowed to use metaphors like butcher when they do normal things like slaughtering a pride?
Fair enough, lets move on.
RE: Othawa Pride - Tr1x24 - 09-29-2022
3 female subs are alive and well:
Photo credits : Dulinilodge
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
They should find their mom soon, hopefully. At their age, last Sparta sub survived 3 months on her own, so few days alone shouldn't be an issue.
RE: Othawa Pride - Wyld@Heart - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 12:32 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I know we are emotional, and love certain prides and lions, but this is very wrong way to look at these magnificent animals.
Oh yes, no argument with your post at all which is why I phrased my post the way I did. I always maintain that we are here to observe rather than take sides or anthropomorphize these animals in human terms through a human lens however as a person with emotion it is hard to sometimes distance oneself from the interactions we see however much we want to and in a case like this, I think I would would still stand by my initial post, emotionally charged as it may be or otherwise.
The Birmingham male is not a monster or a creature to be despised as lion society is all about the strongest being as aggressive as they can, to be as dominant as they can and for as long as they can and this applies to males and females alike, solo or acting as pride but at some point we are allowed as observers to pull back and say how such behaviour has been detrimental. Lion behaviour is remarkable in how much you can watch and still learn even after years and years.
RE: Othawa Pride - 1ofCourage - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 03:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: 3 female subs are alive and well:
Photo credits : Dulinilodge
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
They should find their mom soon, hopefully. At their age, last Sparta sub survived 3 months on her own, so few days alone shouldn't be an issue.
That first female pictured looks like Skorro Jr a lot.