(02-08-2022, 02:36 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: my be useful

(02-08-2022, 03:04 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(02-08-2022, 02:36 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: my be useful

They do and are very useful as always! Only problem is that we can't see the location of each of those 22 males.
So that's going go be very hard. Just wanted to do two different averages for these population. A northern average and a souther average. So see how much variation there's among them. Combined, they are like 65-66 kgish

(02-08-2022, 03:02 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(02-08-2022, 02:27 AM)Pckts Wrote: Vin Diesel was never weighed, at least nothing verified.

I'm sure once you posted on Modern weights and measurements of wild leopards a copied and pasted message from somewhere, where it said it was weighed before 84 kg, then there was a phrase of "he's a 97 kg man eater".

Where did you get those messages from? I've been looking on forums and apps like Facebook but nothing, was it deleted?

Anyway I'm not saying it's something verified, hence why I would say everywhere "Vin Diesel weighed 97 kg" in the same way I say "Mawenzi is 83 kg".
Thing I'm not of course doing, I would say "he was said to be..."
That's because it's nothing verified. It could be reliable when looking at him when in his prime. But as likely or reliable he could be, it's not verified.

The reason why I brought him up is because of the "at least 70 kg" male. Likewise, I said that automatically if you consider reliable that at least 70kg male that was just guess estimated at sight, you shouldn't find that unreliable Vin Diesel that was actually captured and collared by rangers (so it's likely that it was weighed aswll).
Whereas I'm sure that male was never ever captured. And still, at least 70 kgs means that 70 kg is a low estimate. 
That's what least means. It would have said "at best" or at "max" if they were guess estimating it's upper estimate. 

(02-08-2022, 02:27 AM)Pckts Wrote: Again, images mean little without dimensions. And if you're using the word "bloated" to describe one, that is pretty much saying it seems fat while the other has a more dense musculature.

Same reason why also the "at least 70 kg" male can be off as estimate. As it could probably weigh more. Same thing also when mentioning the 95 kg confirmed male that from a flattering angle looked like 60+kgish. 
By the way, with bloated I mean with a very wide and enormous body frame. It was for the Mawenzi comparison, while Mawenzi from that image looked a bit of slender (talking about waists) for an 80+ pushing male, that male i posted below while comparing it to cougars it looks bloated in comparison, as it's belly and torso falls deeper and closer to the ground while compared to Mawenzi. 
And yes, there might be a bit of fat because of the cold climates. And proportionally yes you're also right that there are also males that might have a more dense musculature when compared to Iranian males as well. In my opinion when it comes to musculature and build Aberdare leopards take the cake. They have very wide and round skulls compared to most leopard populations. I don't know your opinion about them, but they are very impressive. The fact that they don't even need fat accumulation to look enormous (still Iranian males are enormous and massive, with or without fat, but still) because of their tropical habitats.
IMO the largest African population roams in kenya highlands.

(02-08-2022, 03:28 AM)Pckts Wrote: For the North they'll be around 70kg "Mohammad Farhadinia" 

(02-08-2022, 03:54 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(02-08-2022, 03:28 AM)Pckts Wrote: For the North they'll be around 70kg "Mohammad Farhadinia" 

Yeap I do already know that he said this, I'm the same guy who you spoke to on Carnivora as I'm "andreavitanza305" . Do you remember when you mentioned this and guessestimated Northern males to be around "mid to high 70s" on average? Personally I think around 70 kgs is a better estimate as mid to high 70s could be too close to Pantanal jaguaresses that do reach higher weights, although the idea of freak sized 100+ kg leopards is still possible as we are able to record approaching males of this sizes from African males that average less, let alone an hypothetical 70 kg average population.

Do you have data regarding the highest reliable  shoulder height for these leopards taken on straight line without counting the paw? I guess it would be anywhere around 78 cm maybe. Some sites say 80+ cm but I think that's because it does include the paw. And that isn't of course a reliable methodology for measuring shoulder heights as well as those all 120+ cm lions and tigers.
I remember a 140 cm tall lion somewhere lol. Polar bear sized hell no that's inaccurate.

(02-08-2022, 03:54 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: Do you have data regarding the highest reliable  shoulder height for these leopards taken on straight line without counting the paw? I guess it would be anywhere around 78 cm maybe. Some sites say 80+ cm but I think that's because it does include the paw. And that isn't of course a reliable methodology for measuring shoulder heights as well as those all 120+ cm lions and tigers.
I remember a 140 cm tall lion somewhere lol. Polar bear sized hell no that's inaccurate.

(02-08-2022, 03:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Lastly, he certainly doesn't look like a 90kg Leopard to me. In comparison, the male I mentioned was captured, collared and measured as well as compared to other males of similar dimensions with none reaching 80kg let alone 90kg. 

(02-08-2022, 03:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Nor was he collared, if he were collared we'd be able to obtain capture info far easier.

(02-08-2022, 04:15 AM)Pckts Wrote: No unfortunately I don't, they aren't specific about the protocol in that way.

(02-08-2022, 04:24 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: gure of 190 cm for a head-body length of leopards (sic!) was created and perpetuated in the litterature, even in books like "Walkers Mammals fo the World" and modern cats books like "Wild Cats of the World" from Dr Sunquist and wife (2002) and Dr Hunter (2015).

(02-08-2022, 03:37 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(02-08-2022, 03:02 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(02-08-2022, 02:27 AM)Pckts Wrote: Vin Diesel was never weighed, at least nothing verified.

I'm sure once you posted on Modern weights and measurements of wild leopards a copied and pasted message from somewhere, where it said it was weighed before 84 kg, then there was a phrase of "he's a 97 kg man eater".

Where did you get those messages from? I've been looking on forums and apps like Facebook but nothing, was it deleted?

Anyway I'm not saying it's something verified, hence why I would say everywhere "Vin Diesel weighed 97 kg" in the same way I say "Mawenzi is 83 kg".
Thing I'm not of course doing, I would say "he was said to be..."
That's because it's nothing verified. It could be reliable when looking at him when in his prime. But as likely or reliable he could be, it's not verified.

The reason why I brought him up is because of the "at least 70 kg" male. Likewise, I said that automatically if you consider reliable that at least 70kg male that was just guess estimated at sight, you shouldn't find that unreliable Vin Diesel that was actually captured and collared by rangers (so it's likely that it was weighed aswll).
Whereas I'm sure that male was never ever captured. And still, at least 70 kgs means that 70 kg is a low estimate. 
That's what least means. It would have said "at best" or at "max" if they were guess estimating it's upper estimate. 

(02-08-2022, 02:27 AM)Pckts Wrote: Again, images mean little without dimensions. And if you're using the word "bloated" to describe one, that is pretty much saying it seems fat while the other has a more dense musculature.

Same reason why also the "at least 70 kg" male can be off as estimate. As it could probably weigh more. Same thing also when mentioning the 95 kg confirmed male that from a flattering angle looked like 60+kgish. 
By the way, with bloated I mean with a very wide and enormous body frame. It was for the Mawenzi comparison, while Mawenzi from that image looked a bit of slender (talking about waists) for an 80+ pushing male, that male i posted below while comparing it to cougars it looks bloated in comparison, as it's belly and torso falls deeper and closer to the ground while compared to Mawenzi. 
And yes, there might be a bit of fat because of the cold climates. And proportionally yes you're also right that there are also males that might have a more dense musculature when compared to Iranian males as well. In my opinion when it comes to musculature and build Aberdare leopards take the cake. They have very wide and round skulls compared to most leopard populations. I don't know your opinion about them, but they are very impressive. The fact that they don't even need fat accumulation to look enormous (still Iranian males are enormous and massive, with or without fat, but still) because of their tropical habitats.
IMO the largest African population roams in kenya highlands.

Vin Diesels claim was 2nd hand, no real weights were obtained and verified for him. 
Nor was he collared, if he were collared we'd be able to obtain capture info far easier.
Lastly, he certainly doesn't look like a 90kg Leopard to me. In comparison, the male I mentioned was captured, collared and measured as well as compared to other males of similar dimensions with none reaching 80kg let alone 90kg. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Which "messages" are you talking about?
In regards to Mohammad Farhadinia and Kambiz Baraadarani?
I'm the one who posted the 88kg Leopard you posted, it was from the my discussions with them on IG.

(02-08-2022, 04:34 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(02-08-2022, 03:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Lastly, he certainly doesn't look like a 90kg Leopard to me. In comparison, the male I mentioned was captured, collared and measured as well as compared to other males of similar dimensions with none reaching 80kg let alone 90kg. 

Again, visual estimates can be way off. Just because you estimate it to not be close to be over 80 kg it doesn't mean it was not. Remember the persian leopard you said it looked nothing close to 100 kg (as 95 kg is close to 100 kg) while it actually WAS that large. So you should also be very Descartes-like when making estimates. Like still having some doubts because you know, visual estimates are tricky. 

I will always use Mawenzi 83 kg as example because he's literally the perfect example for comparing male leopards. 
Mawenzi is massive but has also a nice sized belly fold, without it this is his real physique. 
He's rather lean and athletic to be a only 7 kgs far from 90 kgs right? 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

But still. He's a confirmed 80+ kg male

*This image is copyright of its original author

Now, we know that Vin diesel was allegedly "weighed when they removed its collar. Let's see how it looked in its prime

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Now he DOES look comparable to 83 kg Mawenzi, at least to me. In some images, he also seems to be more massive especially the first ones. I'd say it's safe to estimate him at 80+ kg. Now you're free to estimate him the way you want. But you can't deny that he DOES compare to Mawenzi. Who is also pretty lean but still well over the average leopard.

(02-08-2022, 03:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Nor was he collared, if he were collared we'd be able to obtain capture info far easier.

FYI, Vin Diesel was collared :
As far as I know, that's a collar 

*This image is copyright of its original author

. And he looks pretty massive here aswell^
Mawenzi tier. 


About the messages I was just referring to this your old post. Where did you get this info? And yes he was collared as I already said, there is literally his image of him walking close to a road with the collar being clearly visible so it's likely that he was first weighed when they added the collar and then when they removed it. Of course it's still not verified but it COULD be likely. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:Again, visual estimates can be way off. Just because you estimate it to not be close to be over 80 kg it doesn't mean it was not. Remember the persian leopard you said it looked nothing close to 100 kg (as 95 kg is close to 100 kg) while it actually WAS that large. So you should also be very Descartes-like when making estimates. Like still having some doubts because you know, visual estimates are tricky. 

(02-07-2022, 11:21 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(02-06-2022, 08:04 PM)LoveAnimals Wrote: These are the giant males that roam in Northern Iran. I've never seen leopards with so massive and huge bodies with pinheads like in these males. 
I guess that these could be some real 100+ kg leopards.

https://imgur.com/t/animals/akP2h2G.gif

https://imgur.com/t/predator/uXtaU6Q.gif

I can't see the images, it says that do not exist anymore.

However I am agree with Pckt, with no referece to scale, any leopard (or any animal, actually) can be of the weight and size that we want, and human mind is very tricky. From what I know, there are very few leopards over 90 kg, most are about 50 - 70 kg, depending of the population. Also, Persian leopards are flufy and may be estimated to have bigger weights than the real ones.

(02-08-2022, 04:51 AM)Pckts Wrote: Spot patterns look a bit off between the two *Look directly beneath eye and go down*
Could be the camera resolution but they look different no?

(02-08-2022, 04:51 AM)Pckts Wrote: regardless the weight claim is no different than the others who've claimed weights from 2nd hand sources that turned out to be false. 

(02-08-2022, 04:51 AM)Pckts Wrote: Also, he does look better when he's full bellied compared to the images I posted

(02-08-2022, 04:51 AM)Pckts Wrote: He didn't look that size then or now, he was reported multiple weights as well as disregarded by both Mohammad and Kambiz and his total length was shorter than the larger

(02-08-2022, 04:47 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: In your opinion what's  the highest SH for African leopards?