+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage (/topic-avoca-male-lions-and-their-male-lineage)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - KM600 - 09-29-2024
We all know Mohawk is an excellent hunter but let’s hope he’s found his boys.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Tr1x24 - 09-29-2024
So he is back at Rhino Post, question is would his 2 sons accept him if they bump into each other, as they are territorial males now by the looks of it.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Mapokser - 09-29-2024
After S.Avocas went nomadic under pressure of Nkhulus, they moved several km from their territory and were seen mating with the Hamilton pride, while not long before the Leeubrons were also seen mating.
That was the last confirmed sighting of the 2 S.Avocas together if I'm not mistaken, later it was said they were seen close to their territory again before the smaller one showed up injured in Sabi Sands, but I don't think this sighting was ever truly 100% confirmed.
The larger Leeubron male was photographed with injuries around that time as well.
Anyway it was never clear what happened but Leeubrons and Nkhulus were the most likely culprits. Maybe Londolozi got info from Kruger guides about a fight with Leeubrons because often they don't make such statements about who killed who if they aren't sure.
You'd think they'd say something like "the larger S.Avoca went missing in Kruger", or at best "it is believed that a clash with Nkhulu or Leeubrons were likely the reason why the larger S.Avoca disappeared", but they straight up said the Leeubrons killed him.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - BA0701 - 09-29-2024
All - we have seen an extended conversation regarding the name used for a particular lion, which appears to have been put to bed. I am here to ask everyone that we leave it that way. As for the names used for individual lions, folks need to not be bothered by something so trivial, at least until he receives a proper, official, name. I think we all understand that Nkuhuma Male is no longer young, just as many other lion's names do not appear to have been literal at all times, males named Dreadlocks, for instance, do not always have dreads in their manes, or males named Mohawk often do not carry their signature hair style for their entire lives. When someone uses the name NYM, people know exactly who is being referred to, and folks shouldn't get upset by it, until someone finally gives him an official name, I'd imagine, we will likely continue seeing that name used.
As for the rest of this conversation, I am simply going to remind everyone, that personal attacks directed at any member will not be tolerated on this site, especially those made during what appears to have become a heated conversation, over something so pointless. We have lost valuable members of this site, due to senseless and extended arguing, and while we do not wish to see anyone banned, if these things continue, people are going to start getting banned. It needs to stop.
I see the conversation has moved on to the more important things, let's keep it that way. As always, thank you for your understanding, and your cooperation.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - KM600 - 09-29-2024
(09-29-2024, 07:51 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: So he is back at Rhino Post, question is would his 2 sons accept him if they bump into each other, as they are territorial males now by the looks of it.
They haven’t been spotted with that female in a while so that definitely increases Mohawks chances, and that’s assuming he wants to be back with his sons. Very weird how Mohawk left his boys to go back to Nkuhumas and stayed there even while being pressured by PCMs, now with PCMs spending a bit more time in the West, he goes back to KNP. Just like the other S.BDM, they both have very weird movements.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Mapokser - 09-29-2024
As for Mohawk being accepted, it wouldn't be the first time territorial males have accepted new members.
I remember reading about a coalition I think in Eastern Africa were some older brothers took over a pride and a little later they were joined by their slightly younger brothers.
Lions probably cannot rationalize "oh I'm territorial now, I can't accept anyone anymore", if they see a friend they'll likely be friendly, reason why dominant males may not attack their natal pride if they still remembers them.
Issue is if Mohawk has a strong enough bond to rejoin or not, he's a father after all, not a brother who formed close bonds since cubhood, he was only sticking around when he got ousted.
And it is also doubtful if the NKs are fully territorial at the moment, but considering how one of them stalemated one of the 3 dominant Imbali males, they could very well be.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - KM600 - 09-29-2024
(09-29-2024, 08:18 PM)Mapokser Wrote: As for Mohawk being accepted, it wouldn't be the first time territorial males have accepted new members.
I remember reading about a coalition I think in Eastern Africa were some older brothers took over a pride and a little later they were joined by their slightly younger brothers.
Lions probably cannot rationalize "oh I'm territorial now, I can't accept anyone anymore", if they see a friend they'll likely be friendly, reason why dominant males may not attack their natal pride if they still remembers them.
I think u might be on about the Sababora males in Serengeti, the 7 older brothers, after killing Bob Jr, ended up taking his territory but were later joined by their 2 younger brothers. I don’t follow up on that area at all really, but I’m not so sure they were accepted officially as part of the coalition, more so just allowed to stick around up until this point.
Possibly similar situation to the younger BRBs being allowed to hang around Rongai Pride, sure they were chased off when they come too close into contact with pride females or cubs, but were seen spending time with their older brothers numerous times. They could have tried to take an adjacent pride and kept them strong bonds but it was clear they were ready to become dominant males, despite their young age, and even chased Lorkulup once.
Mohawk will only be accepted if they see him as an asset, they won’t carry dead weight just cos he’s their father. Judging by his time back in Sabi Sands, he still seems to have that dominant side to him.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Duco Ndona - 09-29-2024
The definition of a territorial male is that they dont accept other males in a set territory that arent part of their coalition. So the Sababora males likely either just considered the two newcomers as already part of their coalition that got lost along the way. Or they weren't territorial to begin with. Though some males are so lousy in being territorial that its less a case of accepting and more a case of being to lazy to chase them off.
Mohawk will put his sons through a similar dilemma. If they still see him as part of their group and he isn't causing too much problems for them or the pride, they may allow him to return.
Otherwise, they might just as easily kill him. Blood bonds mean nothing for animals. The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the whomb.
Time will tell. But its probably better if we never find out.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Ttimemarti - 09-30-2024
Didn’t the same thing happen with the old avoca males or no?
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Ngonya - 09-30-2024
The darker maned Nkuhuma male in H1-2 near S36, KNP
*This image is copyright of its original author
by Muaawiyah Seedat
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Mwk85 - 10-01-2024
Mohawk has reportedly found his two sons.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - KM600 - 10-01-2024
(10-01-2024, 01:08 PM)Mwk85 Wrote: Mohawk has reportedly found his two sons.
*This image is copyright of its original author
GREAT news! Just made my day a lil better.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - GhostCatP-22 - 10-01-2024
(10-01-2024, 01:08 PM)But Mwk85 Wrote: Mohawk has reportedly found his two sons.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Excellent news! Great to hear both of the sons are alive and well. Any ID on the lionesses?
I don’t think he strait up abandoned them I think he got lost and went “home”. So happy he decided to go back and look for them.
How far is Rhino Post from Djuma?
Interesting that the Black Dam male didn’t follow Mohawk.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Ngonya - 10-01-2024
(10-01-2024, 07:32 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote: How far is Rhino Post from Djuma?Rhino is close to MalaMala / Kirkman's kamp, not far from Skukuza.
Interesting that the Black Dam male didn’t follow Mohawk.
Hopefully someone can correct me if thats wrong but im assuming its quite the distance. I doubt the Black Dam male would be able to keep up with him, not to mention their relation seemed mostly based on both relaying on the Nkuhuma females (?)
Anyways glad Mohawk found his sons, but that also reinforces that the third Nkuhuma young male is gone. If Mohawk came from northern Sabi Sand managed to find them and reunite, the younger brother not having done such thing so far is just a misfortune to say the least.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Mapokser - 10-01-2024
Over 50km I think.
But anyway, amazing news.
I don't think Mohawk still has some fire left to be territorial, I think he abandoned his sons because he didn't like the competition when they got that first female, I think he's retired and only wants to spend his last years peacefully.
But if he has some fire left that some other old lions showed to take opportunities and become territorial again, like Nhenha, it'd be perfect for everybody here.
An extra lion, even if old and not as strong, would be a massive help for the NKs who are not only just 2 males, but one of them isn't even 5yo.
If Mohawk helps with scent-marking and roaring, he could be the extra help they need to fully establish themselves, and when Mohawk dies, his sons wouls be already an impressive, confident and established duo.
If I understand it, they are somehow neighbors to the 3 Imbali and one NK stalemated an Imbali male months ago, so 3 males roaring could convince the Imbalis to not seek conflict.
This territory should also be close to the Nkhulus because they have cubs with the PC pride who has territory around Rhino Post, and Nkhulus are 5-6 strong.