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+----- Thread: Lions from Botswana (/topic-lions-from-botswana)
RE: Lions from Botswana - afortich - 09-23-2023
(09-22-2023, 11:50 AM)BigLion39 Wrote: I saw another video a while ago of a male lion bringing a kill to his injured brother. If I can remember correctly it was in the Timbivadi?
This is the second time I've read this bringing food behavior, which is evidence that animals know more than what we think.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BA0701 - 09-26-2023
Video link was removed due to false and misleading information.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 12:57 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Video link was removed due to false and misleading information.This has to be one of the most misinforming videos I’ve ever come across, pretty much every topic he covered was either completely false or fabricated. TornNose is made out to be some second-in-command, when in reality there’s never a huge gap in dominance between duos compared to bigger coalitions, the narrator completely leaves out the 3 other brothers of Sekekama and TornNose aswell. Claims Matsumi sister’s sired cubs are illegitimate despite her being a pride female which further leads up to his weird obsession between Sekekama and Matsumi. Could go on and on but it doesn’t help how little info there is about Sekekama yet ppl making videos of bs, there’s Sekekama based videos on the ‘Mapogo - Lions of Sabi Sands’ channel and that info is genuinely reliable.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BA0701 - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 02:13 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-26-2023, 12:57 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Interesting video, outlining Sekekama's history, how he took over the Marsh Pride, etc..., just popped into my YT feed, say the video was released 13 days ago.This has to be one of the most misinforming videos I’ve ever come across, pretty much every topic he covered was either completely false or fabricated. TornNose is made out to be some second-in-command, when in reality there’s never a huge gap in dominance between duos compared to bigger coalitions, the narrator completely leaves out the 3 other brothers of Sekekama and TornNose aswell. Claims Matsumi sister’s sired cubs are illegitimate despite her being a pride female which further leads up to his weird obsession between Sekekama and Matsumi. Could go on and on but it doesn’t help how little info there is about Sekekama yet ppl making videos of bs, there’s Sekekama based videos on the ‘Mapogo - Lions of Sabi Sands’ channel and that info is genuinely reliable.
That is very helpful information. While admitting my knowledge of Sekekama is more or less limited to what was provided in SK, and some of the narrative in this video seemed off from my understanding of lion behavior (the aforementioned relationship between Sekekama and the females, namely Matsumi), but we do not receive many updates on those lions, short of your recent posts, which makes it difficult to discern fact from fiction. I will update my post so that we are not seen to be disseminating false information.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 02:28 AM)BA0701 Wrote:Very thankful for SK, not only for helping introduce Sekekama and TornNose to so many of us but also the area of Botswana as a whole. I think reports from the area will continue to improve, with Sekekama and TornNose being the ‘superstars’ if u will of Savuti and their legacy is very much intact which will generate great interest, I’m sure. Was actually trying to count the amount of sons, sired by Sekekama and TornNose that have reached independence, final number was between 13 - 18. Ones in question are the 2 Machabe males, Tsunami and possibly Gaam as well as the apparent 2 young Marsh Pride males that were forced to leave after the Mababe took over. This number of males sired that have reached independence, is more than most legendary coalitions, obviously a different area to let’s say the Mapogo lions but a great statistic nonetheless.(09-26-2023, 02:13 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-26-2023, 12:57 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Interesting video, outlining Sekekama's history, how he took over the Marsh Pride, etc..., just popped into my YT feed, say the video was released 13 days ago.This has to be one of the most misinforming videos I’ve ever come across, pretty much every topic he covered was either completely false or fabricated. TornNose is made out to be some second-in-command, when in reality there’s never a huge gap in dominance between duos compared to bigger coalitions, the narrator completely leaves out the 3 other brothers of Sekekama and TornNose aswell. Claims Matsumi sister’s sired cubs are illegitimate despite her being a pride female which further leads up to his weird obsession between Sekekama and Matsumi. Could go on and on but it doesn’t help how little info there is about Sekekama yet ppl making videos of bs, there’s Sekekama based videos on the ‘Mapogo - Lions of Sabi Sands’ channel and that info is genuinely reliable.
That is very helpful information. While admitting my knowledge of Sekekama is more or less limited to what was provided in SK, and some of the narrative in this video seemed off from my understand of lion behavior (the aforementioned relationship between Sekekama and the females, namely Matsumi), but we do not receive many updates on those lions, short of your recent posts, which makes it difficult to discern fact from fiction. I will update my post so that we are not seen to be disseminating false information.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BigLion39 - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 12:57 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Video link was removed due to false and misleading information
Which video?
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 10-09-2023
Not really sure why the Renegades haven’t taken over being the stronger coalition as I previously mentioned but fair play to these boys for sticking around, wouldn’t have blamed them if they left. Weird thing about the situation is, I’m fairly confident Tsunami could be a direct son from either Sekekama or TornNose but with Gaam I have no idea, so let’s say they’re two unrelated males, technically Tsunami is furthering Sekekama and TornNose legacy yet we don’t know which cubs were sired by him. This is the problem when unrelated lions in the past have joined forces, we’ll never know the true origin of most the offspring unless they are unquestionably related to whatever male because of the resounding similarity in looks.
RE: Lions from Botswana - Spalea - 11-07-2023
A pride of lion finishing a kudu corpse.
" Savuti North Pride on a Kudu - Chobe National Park "
RE: Lions from Botswana - afortich - 11-10-2023
Gaam male lion
RE: Lions from Botswana - Spalea - 12-12-2023
Story of a strong coalition of male lions, even from a young age, 4 years old.
" Hello my dear friends, I hope you are all well.
What we have now is the largest young lion in Africa and in the whole world.
For accuracy in expression, he is one of the largest lions on this planet.
This monster is only 5 years old now.
This is the beginning of the era of power for lions, also, you know.
His body weight here is not less than 230 kilograms.
And his body continues to increase day by day.
About this lion, when did he appear, and is this just fat? Or is he really a huge muscular lion?
What is the relationship of the pirate Vakara with this lion? And what is the alliance of Zakanaxa?
Let's, without more excitement than this, get to know the story of the largest young lion in Africa. "
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 12-12-2023
(12-12-2023, 02:52 AM)Spalea Wrote: Story of a strong coalition of male lions, even from a young age, 4 years old.
" Hello my dear friends, I hope you are all well.
What we have now is the largest young lion in Africa and in the whole world.
For accuracy in expression, he is one of the largest lions on this planet.
This monster is only 5 years old now.
This is the beginning of the era of power for lions, also, you know.
His body weight here is not less than 230 kilograms.
And his body continues to increase day by day.
About this lion, when did he appear, and is this just fat? Or is he really a huge muscular lion?
What is the relationship of the pirate Vakara with this lion? And what is the alliance of Zakanaxa?
Let's, without more excitement than this, get to know the story of the largest young lion in Africa. "
End of the video surprised me, I knew there were 1 or 2 big coalitions in Moremi but 4, 5, 6, 7 members in separate coalitions being in such close proximity is crazy. Coalitions that big are normally guaranteed to be the strongest in the area but there’s so many of them over there. Also, is Pirate Vakara an actual lion or is the narrator just confused because I mistaken this male for being Pirate or Phakara of the Khwai coalition.
RE: Lions from Botswana - Charan Singh - 12-22-2023
(09-26-2023, 02:13 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-26-2023, 12:57 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Video link was removed due to false and misleading information.This has to be one of the most misinforming videos I’ve ever come across, pretty much every topic he covered was either completely false or fabricated. TornNose is made out to be some second-in-command, when in reality there’s never a huge gap in dominance between duos compared to bigger coalitions, the narrator completely leaves out the 3 other brothers of Sekekama and TornNose aswell. Claims Matsumi sister’s sired cubs are illegitimate despite her being a pride female which further leads up to his weird obsession between Sekekama and Matsumi. Could go on and on but it doesn’t help how little info there is about Sekekama yet ppl making videos of bs, there’s Sekekama based videos on the ‘Mapogo - Lions of Sabi Sands’ channel and that info is genuinely reliable.
I concur 100% with you. It is the National Geography documentary Savage Kingdom that has made Sekekema a legend and resulted in these concoctions. For the first time, I found a national documentary not doing justice and falling well below the expected levels, especially for those who understand lion behavior. Many YouTube videos describe Sekekama as the most legendary lion that ever lived with little to no information to back it up - no information about his natal pride or what happened to three older brothers in collation. The general narrative presented is that Sekekama and TornNose were born in 2007 while the other three brothers in 2005 to 2007 and got their first pride sometime in 2013, and marsh pride in 2014 and are still alive. I highly doubt this information and other such narratives.
RE: Lions from Botswana - TheHyenid76 - 12-22-2023
Literature on the ecology, conservation and management of lions in Botswana
- G.A Hemson (2004). The ecology of conservation of lions: Human wildlife conflict in semi-arid Botswana LINK
- F.C Eloff (1973). Ecology and Behavior of the Kalahari Lion FROM The World's Cats 1973
- K. MacFarlane (2014). The Ecology and Management of Kalahari lions in a Conflict Area in Central Botswana LINK
- K. Ngaka (2015). Dynamics of human-lion conflict in and around the Makgadikgadi Pans National Park, Botswana LINK
- A. Snyman (2016). Assessment of resource use and landscape risk for African lions (Panthera leo) in eastern Botswana LINK
- P.C Viljoen (1993). The effects of changes in prey availability on lion predation in a large natural ecosystem in northern Botswana FROM Mammals as Predators
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 12-24-2023
(12-22-2023, 07:27 AM)Charan Singh Wrote:(09-26-2023, 02:13 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-26-2023, 12:57 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Video link was removed due to false and misleading information.This has to be one of the most misinforming videos I’ve ever come across, pretty much every topic he covered was either completely false or fabricated. TornNose is made out to be some second-in-command, when in reality there’s never a huge gap in dominance between duos compared to bigger coalitions, the narrator completely leaves out the 3 other brothers of Sekekama and TornNose aswell. Claims Matsumi sister’s sired cubs are illegitimate despite her being a pride female which further leads up to his weird obsession between Sekekama and Matsumi. Could go on and on but it doesn’t help how little info there is about Sekekama yet ppl making videos of bs, there’s Sekekama based videos on the ‘Mapogo - Lions of Sabi Sands’ channel and that info is genuinely reliable.
I concur 100% with you. It is the National Geography documentary Savage Kingdom that has made Sekekema a legend and resulted in these concoctions. For the first time, I found a national documentary not doing justice and falling well below the expected levels, especially for those who understand lion behavior. Many YouTube videos describe Sekekama as the most legendary lion that ever lived with little to no information to back it up - no information about his natal pride or what happened to three older brothers in collation. The general narrative presented is that Sekekama and TornNose were born in 2007 while the other three brothers in 2005 to 2007 and got their first pride sometime in 2013, and marsh pride in 2014 and are still alive. I highly doubt this information and other such narratives.
They ended up taking over their first pride a few years earlier than 2013 as I believe that was when Savage Kingdom was filmed, plus the Khwai Boys were born in 2011 so this would have been around the time they ended up taking over their first territory. If I remember correctly, the 5 Selinda Boys ousted 4 pride males. In response to little being known about their natal pride, I know they were sired by two extremely dominant and aggressive males known as Romeo and Silver Eye but I seen a documentary explaining how lions had left Selinda because of all the poaching and what not so it’s not surprising not much is known.
RE: Lions from Botswana - Spalea - 12-25-2023
I just come to look at this full episode dated from May 2023 of the Savuti (or Chobe) lions pride during the dry season. Life is still so harsch for these lions and inherited from ancient past times. And like their ancestors when thr drought hit them so severely around a water point they shared with elephants herd and sick hippo, they come to achieve the unthinkable: killing one elephant. But till this ultimate outcome, tensions are very are very high inside the pride, subadult males are growing in size and displaying their claims. But that couldn't be tolerated by the dominant males
" Sekekama takes a great gamble, leading to bloody wars against rivals old and new. But treachery within his own Pride becomes his greatest threat. "