(04-18-2019, 05:16 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 04:46 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 03:28 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 11:49 AM)Rishi Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 09:56 AM)Shadow Wrote: One good case here to remember is that from Ankara zoo, where a tiger managed to get a lucky shot and kill a lion with swipe of paw as far as zoo personnel told and can be believed. So it was separated from lion but cold swipe with paw from between the bars and managed to hit and cut open jugular vein causing that lion to die. So there was no "death grip" from throat or back of neck. Just one very lucky tiger like some lottery winner and one very unlucky lion. These animals are after all flesh and blood, sometimes they can take unbelievable beating and survive, sometimes then not, one wound in wrong place and bye bye tiger or lion or bear. Anyway there are many ways to get killed by another animal and if some animal dies to massive bleeding caused by another, then it is usually said, that it was killed by that another animal. Of course it can be said, that it died to injuries caused by another animal if that sounds better.

That's irrelevant here. A big male sloth bear flailing away its 5 inches to writhe out of a tiger's grapple can cause serious injuries. There were several in this case.

(04-18-2019, 11:12 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: ...also while sloth bear claws are long and strong they're not designed to grip and tear flesh like cat claws,they do more damage with their teeth as could be seen with the matkasur and bear fight where matkasur sustained puncture wounds on his arms and chest area no visible claw marks i can recall

No. That statement is just plain wrong! 

Look up images of sloth bear attack survivors (mostly maulings) & see what type of claw wounds they can cause.
Matkasur got out of it with surprisingly mild damage... i don't know how, but don't expect it to always be the case.

Their claws are definitely not designed to rip and hook the way a big cats are, this is without question. Human skin isn't comparable to animal flesh, we have 0 protection.
Just watch the Tiger Canyon fight where the tigers are interlocked while their back claws Rip into each others stomach, you can even hear it and still they are unable to penetrate the skin, imagine the same thing happening to human being, what do you think the result would be.

In regards to Matkasur, he was never in danger, all bites or claws were defensive by the bear until the end when Matkasur tires and decides to disengage, but compare the wounds sustained to the bear to matkasur and it's not even close, the bear is bloody all along the face, neck and chest and lucky to be alive tbh. The tenacity of the bear and Matkasur inability to inflict a killing bite is what saved the bear but that's not always the case as bears fall victim to Tigers fairly regularly while the other way around is almost unheard. Just compare two situations, Matkasur is unable to kill a mother sloth bear protecting her young while the original KG Male of Kanha killed a mother sloth bear protecting her young in a matter of seconds, it just depends on the cat.

This is quite off topic from the news article though, and if a team of vets come to the conclusion that a large carnivore killed the tiger, the cat had puncture wounds and that is all, nothing about a sloth bear being the culprit, then to claim any animal besides another Tiger killed it is nothing more than a attention grabber but finding a cat days after it's been killed, then setting up camera traps which would take time to get then after all that you see a sloth bear within 150 meters is hardly a "smoking gun."

"But the bear had scratches"
Bears have scars all over their face, I didnt see a sloth bear that didnt have some damage, and they walk very gingerly regardless, they are an awkward animal.
So to assume that a bear is the culprit because it's near a watering hole that is frequented not only by bears, but other tigers and any other animal India has to offer.

"But they didnt find tiger pugmarks"
They didnt find bear pugmarks either, the Tiger was found in the water so it must of gotten their somehow and searching for pugmarks in the forest is impossible unless you see them on the dirt tracks or in a wet/muddy area where the print can be sustained and even then they're very difficult to see.

I know exhaustion or blood loss can kill a cat and that is possible, Its not being ruled out but according to the autopsy that wasn't the cause of the death so that's all we can go off of.

Lastly is the wound location... which animal between the 2 is notorious for attacking the head and neck region with their large canines?


I'll leave my opinion at that and wait for more news, then go from there.

This is a good example how differently some situation can be seen. But what comes to tigers they get wounds as any other animals. Bears can injure them, that is clear :) This was interesting case for many reasons even thoughts tigers tend to rise passions

Absolutely, there are no rules in the wild.
But that's not what this is about, it's possible a sloth bear could kill a tiger. But this istance isn't something you could use as a scientific example for that, this is an unsolved case atm.

(04-18-2019, 06:16 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Pckts :

About #296: OK, I was too inflluenced by the fight between the tiger called Matkasur (#277) and this sloth bear. Usually the tiger wins, almost without any doubt, and if an ursid survives it is a very lucky one.

(04-18-2019, 06:16 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Pckts :

About #296: OK, I was too inflluenced by the fight between the tiger called Matkasur (#277) and this sloth bear. Usually the tiger wins, almost without any doubt, and if an ursid survives it is a very lucky one.

(04-18-2019, 07:36 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 06:16 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Pckts :

About #296: OK, I was too inflluenced by the fight between the tiger called Matkasur (#277) and this sloth bear. Usually the tiger wins, almost without any doubt, and if an ursid survives it is a very lucky one.

Isn´t that Matkasur case that female sloth bear? Males can be about 130-150 kg and really big ones closer to 200 kg. And in this case that which was seen was said to be a huge male sloth bear. So it is quite different thing if male tiger confronts a female bear maybe 1/3-1/2 of size of a male tiger or if it confronts a male bear approximately same size as itself. Tiger is of course favorite in all cases against sloth bear, but that naturally doesn´t mean, that it couldn´t get killed against odds, both of these animals are dangerous, not only tiger :)

(04-18-2019, 08:05 PM)Spalea Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 07:36 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 06:16 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Pckts :

About #296: OK, I was too inflluenced by the fight between the tiger called Matkasur (#277) and this sloth bear. Usually the tiger wins, almost without any doubt, and if an ursid survives it is a very lucky one.

Isn´t that Matkasur case that female sloth bear? Males can be about 130-150 kg and really big ones closer to 200 kg. And in this case that which was seen was said to be a huge male sloth bear. So it is quite different thing if male tiger confronts a female bear maybe 1/3-1/2 of size of a male tiger or if it confronts a male bear approximately same size as itself. Tiger is of course favorite in all cases against sloth bear, but that naturally doesn´t mean, that it couldn´t get killed against odds, both of these animals are dangerous, not only tiger :)

I don't follow as well as you such particular tigers like Matkasur, and perhaps cannot exactly determine who is who among male tigers. And I don't speak about sloth bears... As @Pckts tells bears are very tough opponents, especially males. The fact I noticed before, the sloth bear able to sleep on the ground in a place also inhabited by the tiger shows, IMO, an animal enough confident toward its strength.
As @Wolverine said the previous year , 03-11-2018 ( https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-sloth-bear?pid=52239&highlight=sloth+bears%2C+lions#pid52239  ), the sloth bear couldn't inhabit and sleep this way with Gir lions, because the lions living and patrolling in group would have more easily the upper hand against a lone sloth bear. If  the sloth bear is able to coexist with tigers and this without disapearing from the place, that shows enough well the sloth bears's value as potential fighter.
This doesn't exclude the possibility of a fight if the tiger is clearly decided to kill an ursid. As everywhere else...

(04-18-2019, 06:25 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 06:16 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Pckts :

About #296: OK, I was too inflluenced by the fight between the tiger called Matkasur (#277) and this sloth bear. Usually the tiger wins, almost without any doubt, and if an ursid survives it is a very lucky one.

I don't think that's the case either. 
Bears are no easy target, especially a Big Male .
My skepticism isn't solely based off a Tiger v. Sloth Bear but more so with this particular case.

(04-18-2019, 09:31 PM)Diamir2 Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 06:25 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 06:16 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Pckts :

About #296: OK, I was too inflluenced by the fight between the tiger called Matkasur (#277) and this sloth bear. Usually the tiger wins, almost without any doubt, and if an ursid survives it is a very lucky one.

I don't think that's the case either. 
Bears are no easy target, especially a Big Male .
My skepticism isn't solely based off a Tiger v. Sloth Bear but more so with this particular case.

Sloth bear is harmless to the adult tiger, but the thick coat well protects it from tiger claws and teeth.

(04-18-2019, 10:14 PM)Diamir2 Wrote:

"The only thing that saves the bear is the hair on the body, because tiger doesn't get a grip," Dr Andheria explains.

(04-18-2019, 10:30 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 10:14 PM)Diamir2 Wrote:

"The only thing that saves the bear is the hair on the body, because tiger doesn't get a grip," Dr Andheria explains.

That is small female bear. So Dr Andheria is for sure right. Big male bear can be about twice as big. We are all adults here, aren´t we? Sloth bear is not a favorite against a tiger, we all know that. But then again it is one thing to fight against... let´s say a 70 kg female than it is, if opponent is 140-190 kg male. Or do you maybe disagree and see no difference?

(3 hours ago)Shadow Wrote: Wrote:

(3 hours ago)Diamir2 Wrote: Wrote:"The only thing that saves the bear is the hair on the body, because tiger doesn't get a grip," Dr Andheria explains.

That is small female bear. So Dr Andheria is for sure right. Big male bear can be about twice as big. We are all adults here, aren´t we?  Sloth bear is not a favorite against a tiger, we all know that. But then again it is one thing to fight against... let´s say a 70 kg female than it is, if opponent is 140-190 kg male. Or do you maybe disagree and see no difference?

(04-18-2019, 07:25 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: sloth bears aren't grizzlies or polars which are way stronger than any big cat big male sloth bears would have trouble killing a leopard despite being more powerful let alone a tiger

(04-19-2019, 01:56 AM)Diamir2 Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 10:30 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-18-2019, 10:14 PM)Diamir2 Wrote:

"The only thing that saves the bear is the hair on the body, because tiger doesn't get a grip," Dr Andheria explains.

That is small female bear. So Dr Andheria is for sure right. Big male bear can be about twice as big. We are all adults here, aren´t we? Sloth bear is not a favorite against a tiger, we all know that. But then again it is one thing to fight against... let´s say a 70 kg female than it is, if opponent is 140-190 kg male. Or do you maybe disagree and see no difference?

Reputation: 3
W / L 0%

Less than 1 minute ago

(3 hours ago)Shadow Wrote: Wrote:

(3 hours ago)Diamir2 Wrote: Wrote:"The only thing that saves the bear is the hair on the body, because tiger doesn't get a grip," Dr Andheria explains.

That is small female bear. So Dr Andheria is for sure right. Big male bear can be about twice as big. We are all adults here, aren´t we?  Sloth bear is not a favorite against a tiger, we all know that. But then again it is one thing to fight against... let´s say a 70 kg female than it is, if opponent is 140-190 kg male. Or do you maybe disagree and see no difference?

It was big female bear,to kill a big bear of course a tiger would be harder than a female bear.
not a single case of a serious wounded even a young tiger in a fight with a sloth bear
Sloth bears  are afraid and avoid tigers