(06-25-2015, 08:07 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: Contributing to the twist, Here is the documentary. Its long and untold story of Indian govt that kept his secret for long.

A sequel from the author of the book “TARA; THE COCKTAIL TIGRESS”,

By Dr. Ram Lakhan Singh

I wrote the book “TARA : THE COCKTAIL TIGRESS “ , more than a decade ago , in order to clarify the issues raised in the media, about the genetic pollution of the Indian Tiger , caused by the release of the zoo-born tigress Tara ,in the Dudhwa National Park and also about the attack on human beings in and around the forests of Dudhwa soon after her release. .It was revealed that the tigress Tara was claimed to be a gift to the Prime Minister of India Mrs. Indira Gandhi from the renowned wildlifer Dr. B. Grizimek of Germany. It was admitted that after Tara’s release in the forests, in all twenty two people got killed and fed upon by the tigress before she was shot dead by me.The Govt. Of India’s statement made in the Parliament in reply to a Question raised by Dr. Vasant kumar Pandit was also quoted to answer the question about the genetic pollution of Dudhwa tigers,“. TARA was brought to India from U.K., by Shri Arjan Singh and raised in his premises called ‘ Tiger Haven’ adjacent to Dudhwa Nnational Park and it is undisputed that it was born of parents which were not of the Indian sub-species Panthera tigris tigris.” .
The need for coming out with the sequel to the book ‘TARA: THE COCKTAIL TIGRESS “ at this juncture when the friends of the Indian Tiger, all over the world, are rejoicing the news of the increased tiger population in the Tiger Reserves of India from 1706 in the year 2010 to 2226 in 2014, has arisen due to the fact that a team of the film-makers from Mumbai came down to Lucknow and informed me that they are planning to make a film, showing the need to repeat of TARA - type experiment for increasing tiger population in the forests of India . The sequel to the book clarifies why such an experiment should not be allowed in the field.
The Govt. Of India’s statement made in the Parliament in reply to a Question raised by Dr. Vasant kumar Pandit was also quoted to answer the question about the genetic pollution of Dudhwa tigers,“. TARA was brought to India from U.K., by Shri Arjan Singh and raised in his premises called ‘ Tiger Haven’ adjacent to Dudhwa National Park and it is undisputed that it was born of parents which were not of the Indian sub-species Panthera tigris tigris.”

 

 

(06-20-2015, 04:24 AM)'Kingtheropod' Wrote:

(06-19-2015, 08:58 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: In fact @sanjay, Bengal and Amur tigers are/were of the same size and weight, in old and modern records. The fluctuations in weight came from the size of the samples and the reliability of the records. Most of the statements that the Amur tigers were larger came from the reports of Baikov and another few about "giant" specimens, but now those are considered unreliable.

Modern research and the few reliable records showed that although Amur tigers do weighed more in the past, they were of the same size than the modern ones, with the exception of the Jankovski tiger at 330 cm in length. However, this is a size also reached for Bengal tigers and in this last case, we do have reliable records of tigers that have exceeded 300 kg.

Finally, we can't trust in Mazák entirely, after all, like Yamaguchi said, Mazák was more guided by his heart than by the data. He used captive specimens for comparison, but those were no larger than the largest wild Bengals on record. Why he ignore those figures (like the giant tiger of Brander)? That is still beyond my understanding.

Check this topic for more details: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-who-is-the-king-of-the-tigers

By the way, the Dudwa case was very old and India expended millions of dollars to keep them tigers pure and at the end, there are no longer Amur "genes" in they population. On the other hand, there is a report that suggest that Bengal tigers were introduced to Russia in the old days and that was the cause of the large size of the Amur tigers. So, there are "history" and "stories", but the evidence suggest that both populations, despite they largely different territory, reached the same body size, the same skull size and in some time, the same body weight.
 



 

The presence of siberian tiger genetics may explain why bengal tigers in the north of india are longer then tigers in the south. Indian tigers in the north likely have more amur genes then the south which would probably be devoid of siberian genes.

From my understanding, Amur tigers are longer then bengals generally from the tables you published, correct?



 

(06-26-2015, 01:04 AM)'Shardul' Wrote:

(06-20-2015, 04:24 AM)'Kingtheropod' Wrote:

(06-19-2015, 08:58 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: In fact @sanjay, Bengal and Amur tigers are/were of the same size and weight, in old and modern records. The fluctuations in weight came from the size of the samples and the reliability of the records. Most of the statements that the Amur tigers were larger came from the reports of Baikov and another few about "giant" specimens, but now those are considered unreliable.

Modern research and the few reliable records showed that although Amur tigers do weighed more in the past, they were of the same size than the modern ones, with the exception of the Jankovski tiger at 330 cm in length. However, this is a size also reached for Bengal tigers and in this last case, we do have reliable records of tigers that have exceeded 300 kg.

Finally, we can't trust in Mazák entirely, after all, like Yamaguchi said, Mazák was more guided by his heart than by the data. He used captive specimens for comparison, but those were no larger than the largest wild Bengals on record. Why he ignore those figures (like the giant tiger of Brander)? That is still beyond my understanding.

Check this topic for more details: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-who-is-the-king-of-the-tigers

By the way, the Dudwa case was very old and India expended millions of dollars to keep them tigers pure and at the end, there are no longer Amur "genes" in they population. On the other hand, there is a report that suggest that Bengal tigers were introduced to Russia in the old days and that was the cause of the large size of the Amur tigers. So, there are "history" and "stories", but the evidence suggest that both populations, despite they largely different territory, reached the same body size, the same skull size and in some time, the same body weight.
 




 

The presence of siberian tiger genetics may explain why bengal tigers in the north of india are longer then tigers in the south. Indian tigers in the north likely have more amur genes then the south which would probably be devoid of siberian genes.

From my understanding, Amur tigers are longer then bengals generally from the tables you published, correct?




 

How is it possible for one tiger in one isolated reserve to pollute an entire population? In fact, Dudhwa National park and Katarniaghat wildlife sanctuary are not even contiguous, even though both are part of the Dudhwa tiger reserve. The Bengal tiger population is not one metapopulation, it is split into a lot of smaller sub populations that are isolated from one another. Please explain how can "siberian gentics" from one mixed tigress from Dudhwa pollute tiger gene pool from other reserves in the Terai like Corbett, Chitwan, Bardia and Rajaji? It seems like some people have decided that 'Siberian genetics' only can result in large tigers.
 

 

 

(06-26-2015, 01:39 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(06-26-2015, 01:04 AM)'Shardul' Wrote:

(06-20-2015, 04:24 AM)'Kingtheropod' Wrote:

(06-19-2015, 08:58 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: In fact @sanjay, Bengal and Amur tigers are/were of the same size and weight, in old and modern records. The fluctuations in weight came from the size of the samples and the reliability of the records. Most of the statements that the Amur tigers were larger came from the reports of Baikov and another few about "giant" specimens, but now those are considered unreliable.

Modern research and the few reliable records showed that although Amur tigers do weighed more in the past, they were of the same size than the modern ones, with the exception of the Jankovski tiger at 330 cm in length. However, this is a size also reached for Bengal tigers and in this last case, we do have reliable records of tigers that have exceeded 300 kg.

Finally, we can't trust in Mazák entirely, after all, like Yamaguchi said, Mazák was more guided by his heart than by the data. He used captive specimens for comparison, but those were no larger than the largest wild Bengals on record. Why he ignore those figures (like the giant tiger of Brander)? That is still beyond my understanding.

Check this topic for more details: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-who-is-the-king-of-the-tigers

By the way, the Dudwa case was very old and India expended millions of dollars to keep them tigers pure and at the end, there are no longer Amur "genes" in they population. On the other hand, there is a report that suggest that Bengal tigers were introduced to Russia in the old days and that was the cause of the large size of the Amur tigers. So, there are "history" and "stories", but the evidence suggest that both populations, despite they largely different territory, reached the same body size, the same skull size and in some time, the same body weight.
 





 

The presence of siberian tiger genetics may explain why bengal tigers in the north of india are longer then tigers in the south. Indian tigers in the north likely have more amur genes then the south which would probably be devoid of siberian genes.

From my understanding, Amur tigers are longer then bengals generally from the tables you published, correct?





 

How is it possible for one tiger in one isolated reserve to pollute an entire population? In fact, Dudhwa National park and Katarniaghat wildlife sanctuary are not even contiguous, even though both are part of the Dudhwa tiger reserve. The Bengal tiger population is not one metapopulation, it is split into a lot of smaller sub populations that are isolated from one another. Please explain how can "siberian gentics" from one mixed tigress from Dudhwa pollute tiger gene pool from other reserves in the Terai like Corbett, Chitwan, Bardia and Rajaji? It seems like some people have decided that 'Siberian genetics' only can result in large tigers.
 

 


 

Couldn't agree with you more.
Welcome btw.
 

 

(06-26-2015, 06:21 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: According to the recent phylogenetic classification for the tiger subspecies, Amur and Bengal might not even consider as two different subspecies, but rather two different clades within a same subspecies known as the Mainland tiger.

They are just as different as the South African lion and East African lion, and given that Bengal to live in the colder climate, they would also develop the fluffy coat like the Amur tiger.

The tone about "Bengal's gene pool being polluted by Amur" is a bit too heavy, since we cannot say that the Serengeti lion's gene pool would be polluted if they mix with the Kruger lion.

 

(06-26-2015, 10:55 PM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: Amur and Bengal are the two variations within a common tiger subspecies which known as the Mainland tiger.

However, if we compare Bengal and Javan, then these two belong to two different subspecies.

Just like the lions, African and Asian belong to two different subspecies, while all African lions belong to a common lion subspecies.

 

(06-19-2015, 08:58 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: However, this is a size also reached for Bengal tigers and in this last case, we do have reliable records of tigers that have exceeded 300 kg.

(04-05-2021, 12:40 PM)LoveAnimals Wrote: RELIABLE records of tigers who exceeded 300 kgs? I thought the largest reliable tiger ever measured was 271 kgs, c. 260 kg empty.

Where did you get the reliable 300+ kg tiger records considered reliable?