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+----- Thread: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage (/topic-avoca-male-lions-and-their-male-lineage)
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RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - KM600 - 06-12-2024
(06-12-2024, 08:05 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: Aren't the NkHuma's nieces?
Mohawk really decided he wants a 3rd generation of Nkuhumas
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Go131810 - 06-13-2024
(06-12-2024, 09:32 PM)KM600 Wrote:(06-12-2024, 08:05 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: Aren't the NkHuma's nieces?
Mohawk really decided he wants a 3rd generation of Nkuhumas
I had a question. The Sub adults right now would all be his? Or could some of them be blondes? Also the Talamatie pride most of the cubs are Dark mane? In the Plain camp pride they always show the single male lion son of the Southern Avocas but what has been of the other young sub adults in the plain camp pride? Also this lioness is a Birmingham daughter that is with Mohawk?
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Ngonya - 06-13-2024
(06-12-2024, 08:05 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: Aren't the NkHuma's nieces?The north never cease to surprise us.
So for now both Plains Camp brothers are in the west with the Ximhungwe pride, but for how long till (if) they come back north?
Mohawk is playing a really dangerous game, which he cannot win.
Even Kambulas could put him in trouble, the best for him would be to join his Nkuhuma sons/nephews in Kruger.
But in life, especially following the lion dynamics, things don't usually go the way we want.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Cath2020 - 06-13-2024
I know Ngonya, but I think Mohawk feels he cannot compete with his sons that are coming of age now.... He's not used to being second fiddle, so he's letting them have their chance to shine. I think he also might be feeling his age too much to try to compete with or alongside them. A quiet retirement is more his style, lol. He's found more 'comfort' in the females of his previous pride....well, part of the pride.
I'm thinking that he must be well past his prime as he's not trying to stick it out with his territorial sons. No shame in that. He's raised them all well. Who knows how many months or years the aging lion has. We know that TB makes the males age and die faster than average.... around 10, give or take.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Gavskrr - 06-13-2024
To be quite honest, I think this situation is not much more dangerous than the others being a lone male. He doesn't seem to want to challenge any resident males, he just joined the young offspring and is enjoying his stay, I just hope this adventure doesn't bring harm to the resident prides and I wonder if he would have a chance to join the Nkuhuma male and tumbela if he encounter, perhaps not if they continue to be accompanied, but it could be a differentiating factor for them.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - KM600 - 06-13-2024
Mohawk after another successful hunt. He's somehow looking better now than he did a few weeks ago despite then being with his 3 sons. Must be trying to impressive the Nkuhuma females.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - T_Ferguson - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 06:56 PM)KM600 Wrote: Mohawk after another successful hunt. He's somehow looking better now than he did a few weeks ago despite then being with his 3 sons. Must be trying to impressive the Nkuhuma females.
I wonder if his sons coming of age and mating pit them against dear old dad, and caused them to turn Mohawk into the little guy that gets the scraps. Ungrateful little Turds....
I'm just curious if we are going to see him and his older brother get together, or even Khanya, or now smaller BDM. The sad reality is we'll likely see the PCM's return and make a mess of it all.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Tr1x24 - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 07:05 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: I wonder if his sons coming of age and mating pit them against dear old dad, and caused them to turn Mohawk into the little guy that gets the scraps. Ungrateful little Turds....
Thats ultimatley what it comes down to.
Even most famous father sons coalition, Notches, had the same problem.
Fathers become old, they cant compete with their young and powerful sons.
Didnt Mohawk get dominated on a kills by his sons even ~1 year ago? Imagine situation now when they are 4.5 -5 yrs old.
I think we need to take in mind, that some old nomadic males dont have "desire" or "will power" to become territorial males again, they just want to survive as long as possible, if they get some opportunities to mate, without needing to fight for it, thats a bonus.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - adamstocks16 - 06-14-2024
@Tr1x24 exactly there will always be a shift in the balance of power which is inevitable, it can still work as a fully functioning coalition but some males (could be the case with Mohawk) might be unwilling to accept this ‘lower status’ as they’re used to being the ones in charge all the time. The example you used of the Notches in Maasai Mara reminds me of an iconic photo taken by Jonathan Scott of Notch being challenged by one of his sons ‘Ron’ he was still young at the time but apparently was most aggressive of them all.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Ttimemarti - 06-14-2024
So kinda like when darkmane tried to come back and Mohawk said hell no (I believe darkmane was the “leader” of the coalition) without darkmane Mohawk was the dominant one His son and chelas son probably said we’re 1 and 2 right?
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - KM600 - 06-14-2024
(06-14-2024, 02:32 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: @Tr1x24 exactly there will always be a shift in the balance of power which is inevitable, it can still work as a fully functioning coalition but some males (could be the case with Mohawk) might be unwilling to accept this ‘lower status’ as they’re used to being the ones in charge all the time. The example you used of the Notches in Maasai Mara reminds me of an iconic photo taken by Jonathan Scott of Notch being challenged by one of his sons ‘Ron’ he was still young at the time but apparently was most aggressive of them all.
I was actually just thinking about this earlier. I would be astonished if the remaining twin could overpower Mohawk given the difference in size but it’d make a lot more sense if this male was more accepting to fewer mating rights and less dominance in the coalition than Mohawk would be, hence him leaving.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Mohawk goes back to join them given the dynamics in Sabi Sands. He may not be one of the more dominant members if he rejoins, but in the chance he does sire offspring, they’d have much more chance of survival with the other Nkuhuma Boys being young and healthy. He’s not going to accomplish anything as an old, solo male in Sabi Sands.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - T_Ferguson - 06-14-2024
(06-14-2024, 03:10 AM)KM600 Wrote:(06-14-2024, 02:32 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: @Tr1x24 exactly there will always be a shift in the balance of power which is inevitable, it can still work as a fully functioning coalition but some males (could be the case with Mohawk) might be unwilling to accept this ‘lower status’ as they’re used to being the ones in charge all the time. The example you used of the Notches in Maasai Mara reminds me of an iconic photo taken by Jonathan Scott of Notch being challenged by one of his sons ‘Ron’ he was still young at the time but apparently was most aggressive of them all.
I was actually just thinking about this earlier. I would be astonished if the remaining twin could overpower Mohawk given the difference in size but it’d make a lot more sense if this male was more accepting to fewer mating rights and less dominance in the coalition than Mohawk would be, hence him leaving.
I still wouldn’t be surprised if Mohawk goes back to join them given the dynamics in Sabi Sands. He may not be one of the more dominant members if he rejoins, but in the chance he does sire offspring, they’d have much more chance of survival with the other Nkuhuma Boys being young and healthy. He’s not going to accomplish anything as an old, solo male in Sabi Sands.
While I mostly agree... he just mated with Nkhuma girls. I mean... yeah.. gross... nieces and daughters and all.. but... he ain't doing that with his boys around.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - criollo2mil - 06-14-2024
(06-13-2024, 01:00 AM)Go131810 Wrote: I had a question. The Sub adults right now would all be his? Or could some of them be blondes? Also the Talamatie pride most of the cubs are Dark mane?
All three N Avocas could be fathers of the 2019 generation of Nkuhumas . Only Blondie and Mohawk are options for the 2021 litters.
All three N Avocas could be fathers of the Talamatis but he was the more dominant member when they mated w the females.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - sik94 - 06-14-2024
I don't think the reason Mohawk left them is because of not getting enough mating opportunities or competition from his sons. He can dominate them pretty easily right now just being an older and experienced lion and he can still demand space on a kill. They aren't doing much mating to begin with at this stage for there to be a competition, they were seen with a lioness like once lol.
I think Mohawk just wasn't fully bonded with them and it was a temporary situation for him, we have seen him separate from the sons and on his own many times all over the place and not just within Sabi Sands either. Mohawk has a bit of a Tumbela/Ximhungwe thing going on with the Nkuhumas and always seems to pop up whenever there's an opportunity with no other males around.
Another thing is probably comfort, lions that are dominant over a pride and an area don't want to leave even after being ousted unless their life is threatened by a big aggressive coalition. Mohawk has a reluctance to leave this area while the sons want to explore just as nomadic males do at their age. I don't think the 3 sons ready for a territorial challenge and with Mohawk not around they have no chance for the next couple years. I don't think Mohawk got pushed out, I think he left them since they kept moving around too much for his liking. On top of that he found the pride full of females he can mate with so now he really doesn't want to leave haha. I think they will run into each other again and join back up once Mohawk's little vacation is over unless the PCMs decide to show up and end it sooner than expected.
RE: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage - Mwk85 - 06-14-2024
If the caption on this post is correct, then the Nkuhumas and Mohawk had an encounter with the Ximhungwes. It states that the Ximhungwe lionesses chased them off the buffalo kill then Mohawk came back to reclaim the kill for himself and didn't let the Ximhungwes near it.