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+----- Thread: Lions from Botswana (/topic-lions-from-botswana)
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 01:53 AM)BA0701 Wrote:TornNose is meant to be bulkier so could weigh more depending on his height compared to Sekekama, Pretty Boy and Tsekedi are massive lions aswell.(09-01-2023, 01:40 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-01-2023, 01:26 AM)BA0701 Wrote:Apparently when they were filming Savage Kingdom Sekekama was around 240-250kg, wish there was more info on these boys tho, can’t even tell the difference between who’s who from this video. I think Pretty Boy II is the one who stopped as he seems bigger than the others and ppl believe he’s now the most dominant male, Sekoti was the only one who wasn’t there and he’s easy to spot cos of his snipped tale, then there’s Waziba and Romeo who I can’t tell apart.(09-01-2023, 01:05 AM)KM600 Wrote: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwe9eTpsa8o/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Renegades before the fight against the Mababe males
Man those are some big males.
250kg, wow! I knew Sekekama was big, you could see his size when he was near the lionesses, had no idea he was that big.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BA0701 - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 06:20 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-01-2023, 01:53 AM)BA0701 Wrote:TornNose is meant to be bulkier so could weigh more depending on his height compared to Sekekama, Pretty Boy and Tsekedi are massive lions aswell.(09-01-2023, 01:40 AM)KM600 Wrote:(09-01-2023, 01:26 AM)BA0701 Wrote:Apparently when they were filming Savage Kingdom Sekekama was around 240-250kg, wish there was more info on these boys tho, can’t even tell the difference between who’s who from this video. I think Pretty Boy II is the one who stopped as he seems bigger than the others and ppl believe he’s now the most dominant male, Sekoti was the only one who wasn’t there and he’s easy to spot cos of his snipped tale, then there’s Waziba and Romeo who I can’t tell apart.(09-01-2023, 01:05 AM)KM600 Wrote: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwe9eTpsa8o/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Renegades before the fight against the Mababe males
Man those are some big males.
250kg, wow! I knew Sekekama was big, you could see his size when he was near the lionesses, had no idea he was that big.
During the show, you could see Tsekedi's size, and frame-wise he was not too far off from Sekekama, even at that young age. Just had some bulking up to do, which only comes with age.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 06:51 AM)BA0701 Wrote: During the show, you could see Tsekedi's size, and frame-wise he was not too far off from Sekekama, even at that young age. Just had some bulking up to do, which only comes with age.Agreed, he was 4/5 in Savage Kingdom and he still had quite a way to go imo. I’ve heard from ppl that lions stop growing from 4-5 onwards but I believe this to be false in most cases, at this age most lions are still normally nomadic and aren’t eating as much as they would being pride males - obviously the more food they eat at a consistent rate, the bulkier they can become. I think the absolute peak power of a male lion is actually towards 8/9 or if they have crazy genetics like in Botswana it could even range into 10. In Wolves for example, their prime is actually closer to their latter years, as although they can’t hunt as well, they put on so much weight and turn it all into muscle, when hunting they obviously have to be much slimmer to be efficient and this halts the process.
RE: Lions from Botswana - Mapokser - 09-01-2023
I'm pretty sure there's no evidence Sekekama was ever weighed, nor is there any evidence Botswana lions have "crazy genetics" being any bigger than lions from other regions. Iirc there were some official weights from Botswana, not a big sample but the average wasn't any larger than that of lions from other areas.
I'd like to be wrong though, having a famous lion like Sekekama weighed would be cool.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BA0701 - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 08:41 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm pretty sure there's no evidence Sekekama was ever weighed, nor is there any evidence Botswana lions have "crazy genetics" being any bigger than lions from other regions. Iirc there were some official weights from Botswana, not a big sample but the average wasn't any larger than that of lions from other areas.
I'd like to be wrong though, having a famous lion like Sekekama weighed would be cool.
I have heard the same things about lion sizes from Botswana, in fact unless I am mistaken, I believe @Pckts has said the same things as well.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 08:41 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm pretty sure there's no evidence Sekekama was ever weighed, nor is there any evidence Botswana lions have "crazy genetics" being any bigger than lions from other regions. Iirc there were some official weights from Botswana, not a big sample but the average wasn't any larger than that of lions from other areas.I’m not on about the genetics in terms of how big they are compared to other regions but more so how healthy they stay compared to other regions.
I'd like to be wrong though, having a famous lion like Sekekama weighed would be cool.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BA0701 - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 09:33 PM)KM600 Wrote:(09-01-2023, 08:41 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm pretty sure there's no evidence Sekekama was ever weighed, nor is there any evidence Botswana lions have "crazy genetics" being any bigger than lions from other regions. Iirc there were some official weights from Botswana, not a big sample but the average wasn't any larger than that of lions from other areas.I’m not on about the genetics in terms of how big they are compared to other regions but more so how healthy they stay compared to other regions.
I'd like to be wrong though, having a famous lion like Sekekama weighed would be cool.
Akin to Crater lions and their robust appearance being the result of plentiful prey animals year round.
RE: Lions from Botswana - Mapokser - 09-02-2023
@KM600 How do you know they are any healthier than other lions?
@BA0701 Ngorongoro Crater has bigger lions on average. But the thing is, that place is a small semi-isolated area with inbred cats.
How many adult male lions live there? 5? 7? I remember that recently it had less than 60 lions living there and this is while adding cubs and females. Same population of the Western Sector of SS in the pre Mapogo Era, and at that time there were only 3 dominant males among the overall 57 lions.
The Lake Quintet aside, how many other males/coalitions live there? None? Or maybe 1 or 2? It's not like it's an area where one could say it has a sub-population of huge male lions. In any other area you could isolate a few big lions like that. The Crater is just a territory with one or two coalitions rather than an actual population of bigger lions.
Still, I'm pretty sure prey density and the "easier life" for natives to the Crater in comparison to lions anywhere else on Serengeti also contributes to their big size.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-02-2023
(09-02-2023, 12:13 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @KM600 How do you know they are any healthier than other lions?Albeit it’s hard to follow lions from Botswana, I’ve heard before that they age better than their counterparts and from the few Botswana lions I know I agree with it. One example is Sekekama and TornNose, it’s said they control a new pride and eventho nobody truly knows when they were born it was late 2000s most likely 2007, they should not still be a factor in the lion dynamics at this age especially considering they’re the same age. Compare them to any prime male lion from MM, SS or KNP and you wouldn’t think there’s much age difference, only recently they’ve started having trouble with their eyes but before that nobody would have guessed they were 15+. I’d say that Savage Kingdom highlighted the tough lifestyle they live, having to move the whole pride into enemy territory just for water and the chance to hunt elephants cos thats one of the only things there is to hunt at the time, so ppl can’t say they live significantly easier than these other areas of lions and yet they still seem to age gracefully.
@BA0701 Ngorongoro Crater has bigger lions on average. But the thing is, that place is a small semi-isolated area with inbred cats.
How many adult male lions live there? 5? 7? I remember that recently it had less than 60 lions living there and this is while adding cubs and females. Same population of the Western Sector of SS in the pre Mapogo Era, and at that time there were only 3 dominant males among the overall 57 lions.
The Lake Quintet aside, how many other males/coalitions live there? None? Or maybe 1 or 2? It's not like it's an area where one could say it has a sub-population of huge male lions. In any other area you could isolate a few big lions like that. The Crater is just a territory with one or two coalitions rather than an actual population of bigger lions.
Still, I'm pretty sure prey density and the "easier life" for natives to the Crater in comparison to lions anywhere else on Serengeti also contributes to their big size.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BigLion39 - 09-05-2023
Rescent drama from the Savuti Marsh
If I am not mistaken 2/4 Renegades/Northern Males beat up 1 of the Mababe males/Southern males. A move to take the Marsh. I think Sekoti and Romeo were seen without any fighting evidence so it must have been the other 2 who invaded.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-05-2023
(09-05-2023, 11:33 AM)BigLion39 Wrote: Rescent drama from the Savuti MarshAll 4 invaded, they must have split up into two duos to chase the Mababe males, there is a video showing one of the Mababe males seemingly hurt but useless sending it in here as u can’t make out who it is nor how bad he’s injured.
If I am not mistaken 2/4 Renegades/Northern Males beat up 1 of the Mababe males/Southern males. A move to take the Marsh. I think Sekoti and Romeo were seen without any fighting evidence so it must have been the other 2 who invaded.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-07-2023
Hearing Tsunami (lesser dominant male) was the male injured and was believed to have fought Waziba and Pretty Boy II, looks like I may have been right and they split into duos to outnumber both males. Injuries apparently minor. Just thought I’d add that this happened around Leopard Rock, for those of u who’ve watched Savage Kingdom this is the same place where Matsumi went to give birth away from the rest of the pride. It overlaps both coalitions territories and could have simply just been them unknowingly running into each other, don’t think it was a serious takeover attempt at all as the Renegades are clearly the stronger coalition, if they want Marsh Pride they’ll take it.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BA0701 - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 01:52 AM)KM600 Wrote: Hearing Tsunami (lesser dominant male) was the male injured and was believed to have fought Waziba and Pretty Boy II, looks like I may have been right and they split into duos to outnumber both males. Injuries apparently minor. Just thought I’d add that this happened around Leopard Rock, for those of u who’ve watched Savage Kingdom this is the same place where Matsumi went to give birth away from the rest of the pride. It overlaps both coalitions territories and could have simply just been them unknowingly running into each other, don’t think it was a serious takeover attempt at all as the Renegades are clearly the stronger coalition, if they want Marsh Pride they’ll take it.
We don't get enough updates from that area, unfortunately, so thank you very much for this! Yes, of course I remember Leopard Rock, some really cool drone shots of it in the show, and where the two little leopard cubs were hiding, same place, I believe, that Matsumi killed the little female, the more inquisitive of the two.
RE: Lions from Botswana - BigLion39 - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 01:52 AM)KM600 Wrote: looks like I may have been right and they split into duos to outnumber both males. Injuries apparently minorOh I know all 4 invaded, I meant 2 caught the 1 male.
RE: Lions from Botswana - KM600 - 09-14-2023
Mababe Gaam injured