(11-23-2020, 08:45 PM)alexandro Wrote:

Orangutans have more strength that think us. A orangutan (Probably adult female o male young), Move a really big boulder without much efort.

(11-24-2020, 12:08 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(11-23-2020, 08:45 PM)alexandro Wrote:

Orangutans have more strength that think us. A orangutan (Probably adult female o male young), Move a really big boulder without much efort.

Thats very impressive, especially to do so with one arm once it got proper leverage.
Just to give you an idea, that boulder is most likely between 300-450lbs.

(11-24-2020, 01:12 AM)alexandro Wrote: Source: 


-Brown, G. (1993). Great bear almanac. Lyons & Burford.

(https://archive.org/details/greatbearalmanac00gary/page/83/mode/1up)

(11-24-2020, 03:26 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 01:12 AM)alexandro Wrote: Source: 


-Brown, G. (1993). Great bear almanac. Lyons & Burford.

(https://archive.org/details/greatbearalmanac00gary/page/83/mode/1up)

I watched that orangutang video and it was nice, but I can´t say that I would have been too impressed. If that rock is for instance approximately 70cm x 30 cm x 25 cm, it would weight approximately 130-140 kg (around 300 lbs). Rolling that heavy stone isn´t too difficult for average man. In that occasion when it lifted other end of the rock it was "nice" and for sure it showed some strength there, but nothing extraordinary though, imo. For sure stronger than some guy same weight or somewhat bigger, but a bit difficult to say how much. It had to put some effort too there, it wasn´s some nonchalant lift. Nice video but for me a good example of it, that big apes aren´t as strong as some people think. Heavy rock for people is heavy rock for an ape same weight too, even though maybe a little easier for an ape.

Then what comes to that book and bears, I would be pretty cautious when reading it. For instance when there reads how a bear can kill a moose, elk or a deer and then there reads, that it can lift a carcass in it´s mouth and carry it away for long distances... lifting a moose in mouth and carrying away for long distances, it´s something easier to write than to see really happen. Big moose for instance can be 600-800 kg, dragging for some distance is one thing but then again when writing like a bear could do it like nothing is another. For some reason bears too, like all other predators tend to eat big prey animals right there where they manage to kill it. If dragging somewhere, not long distances really if able to do it at all.

There are many nice stories how bears, tigers and lions drag huge carcasses like nothing but reality looks usually very different. 500 meters in a book can be 50 meters in reality and so on. Or if real, then terrain and conditions have been very easy what comes to friction. I have mentioned this before but for instance a big moose on tarmac in cold weather (no ice needed) isn´t too difficult when getting carcass moving, fur slides on tarmac easily and this I know because I have dragged quite big dead moose off the road with my friend and it was easy. Trying the same in the woods would be something else.

(11-24-2020, 03:36 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 03:26 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 01:12 AM)alexandro Wrote: Source: 


-Brown, G. (1993). Great bear almanac. Lyons & Burford.

(https://archive.org/details/greatbearalmanac00gary/page/83/mode/1up)

I watched that orangutang video and it was nice, but I can´t say that I would have been too impressed. If that rock is for instance approximately 70cm x 30 cm x 25 cm, it would weight approximately 130-140 kg (around 300 lbs). Rolling that heavy stone isn´t too difficult for average man. In that occasion when it lifted other end of the rock it was "nice" and for sure it showed some strength there, but nothing extraordinary though, imo. For sure stronger than some guy same weight or somewhat bigger, but a bit difficult to say how much. It had to put some effort too there, it wasn´s some nonchalant lift. Nice video but for me a good example of it, that big apes aren´t as strong as some people think. Heavy rock for people is heavy rock for an ape same weight too, even though maybe a little easier for an ape.

Then what comes to that book and bears, I would be pretty cautious when reading it. For instance when there reads how a bear can kill a moose, elk or a deer and then there reads, that it can lift a carcass in it´s mouth and carry it away for long distances... lifting a moose in mouth and carrying away for long distances, it´s something easier to write than to see really happen. Big moose for instance can be 600-800 kg, dragging for some distance is one thing but then again when writing like a bear could do it like nothing is another. For some reason bears too, like all other predators tend to eat big prey animals right there where they manage to kill it. If dragging somewhere, not long distances really if able to do it at all.

There are many nice stories how bears, tigers and lions drag huge carcasses like nothing but reality looks usually very different. 500 meters in a book can be 50 meters in reality and so on. Or if real, then terrain and conditions have been very easy what comes to friction. I have mentioned this before but for instance a big moose on tarmac in cold weather (no ice needed) isn´t too difficult when getting carcass moving, fur slides on tarmac easily and this I know because I have dragged quite big dead moose off the road with my friend and it was easy. Trying the same in the woods would be something else.

Lifting a stone that shape isn't the same as rolling and that is extremely impressive to do so with minimal effort.
Just to give you an idea, here is a video of a 400lb ish Husafell Stone lift

These guys are going to be 280-350lbs compared to that Orangutan that flips it with one hand which probably weighs around 100-150lbs, maybe a bit more.

(11-24-2020, 04:41 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 03:36 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 03:26 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 01:12 AM)alexandro Wrote: Source: 


-Brown, G. (1993). Great bear almanac. Lyons & Burford.

(https://archive.org/details/greatbearalmanac00gary/page/83/mode/1up)

I watched that orangutang video and it was nice, but I can´t say that I would have been too impressed. If that rock is for instance approximately 70cm x 30 cm x 25 cm, it would weight approximately 130-140 kg (around 300 lbs). Rolling that heavy stone isn´t too difficult for average man. In that occasion when it lifted other end of the rock it was "nice" and for sure it showed some strength there, but nothing extraordinary though, imo. For sure stronger than some guy same weight or somewhat bigger, but a bit difficult to say how much. It had to put some effort too there, it wasn´s some nonchalant lift. Nice video but for me a good example of it, that big apes aren´t as strong as some people think. Heavy rock for people is heavy rock for an ape same weight too, even though maybe a little easier for an ape.

Then what comes to that book and bears, I would be pretty cautious when reading it. For instance when there reads how a bear can kill a moose, elk or a deer and then there reads, that it can lift a carcass in it´s mouth and carry it away for long distances... lifting a moose in mouth and carrying away for long distances, it´s something easier to write than to see really happen. Big moose for instance can be 600-800 kg, dragging for some distance is one thing but then again when writing like a bear could do it like nothing is another. For some reason bears too, like all other predators tend to eat big prey animals right there where they manage to kill it. If dragging somewhere, not long distances really if able to do it at all.

There are many nice stories how bears, tigers and lions drag huge carcasses like nothing but reality looks usually very different. 500 meters in a book can be 50 meters in reality and so on. Or if real, then terrain and conditions have been very easy what comes to friction. I have mentioned this before but for instance a big moose on tarmac in cold weather (no ice needed) isn´t too difficult when getting carcass moving, fur slides on tarmac easily and this I know because I have dragged quite big dead moose off the road with my friend and it was easy. Trying the same in the woods would be something else.

Lifting a stone that shape isn't the same as rolling and that is extremely impressive to do so with minimal effort.
Just to give you an idea, here is a video of a 400lb ish Husafell Stone lift

These guys are going to be 280-350lbs compared to that Orangutan that flips it with one hand which probably weighs around 100-150lbs, maybe a bit more.

I don´t see anything extraordinary when I watch that orangutang. it mainly rolled that stone and it had to put some effort there too. I have been dealing with stones many times, lifting and rolling, so I have some idea what it takes without some strongmen videos. I just am not so impressed for that video, it showed some strength but nothing extraordinary when I watch it. I see it somewhat stronger than an average man maybe but that´s it.

(11-24-2020, 04:58 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 04:41 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 03:36 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 03:26 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 01:12 AM)alexandro Wrote: Source: 


-Brown, G. (1993). Great bear almanac. Lyons & Burford.

(https://archive.org/details/greatbearalmanac00gary/page/83/mode/1up)

I watched that orangutang video and it was nice, but I can´t say that I would have been too impressed. If that rock is for instance approximately 70cm x 30 cm x 25 cm, it would weight approximately 130-140 kg (around 300 lbs). Rolling that heavy stone isn´t too difficult for average man. In that occasion when it lifted other end of the rock it was "nice" and for sure it showed some strength there, but nothing extraordinary though, imo. For sure stronger than some guy same weight or somewhat bigger, but a bit difficult to say how much. It had to put some effort too there, it wasn´s some nonchalant lift. Nice video but for me a good example of it, that big apes aren´t as strong as some people think. Heavy rock for people is heavy rock for an ape same weight too, even though maybe a little easier for an ape.

Then what comes to that book and bears, I would be pretty cautious when reading it. For instance when there reads how a bear can kill a moose, elk or a deer and then there reads, that it can lift a carcass in it´s mouth and carry it away for long distances... lifting a moose in mouth and carrying away for long distances, it´s something easier to write than to see really happen. Big moose for instance can be 600-800 kg, dragging for some distance is one thing but then again when writing like a bear could do it like nothing is another. For some reason bears too, like all other predators tend to eat big prey animals right there where they manage to kill it. If dragging somewhere, not long distances really if able to do it at all.

There are many nice stories how bears, tigers and lions drag huge carcasses like nothing but reality looks usually very different. 500 meters in a book can be 50 meters in reality and so on. Or if real, then terrain and conditions have been very easy what comes to friction. I have mentioned this before but for instance a big moose on tarmac in cold weather (no ice needed) isn´t too difficult when getting carcass moving, fur slides on tarmac easily and this I know because I have dragged quite big dead moose off the road with my friend and it was easy. Trying the same in the woods would be something else.

Lifting a stone that shape isn't the same as rolling and that is extremely impressive to do so with minimal effort.
Just to give you an idea, here is a video of a 400lb ish Husafell Stone lift

These guys are going to be 280-350lbs compared to that Orangutan that flips it with one hand which probably weighs around 100-150lbs, maybe a bit more.

I don´t see anything extraordinary when I watch that orangutang. it mainly rolled that stone and it had to put some effort there too. I have been dealing with stones many times, lifting and rolling, so I have some idea what it takes without some strongmen videos. I just am not so impressed for that video, it showed some strength but nothing extraordinary when I watch it. I see it somewhat stronger than an average man maybe but that´s it.

300lbs is 300lbs, it's not being moved easily. Let alone by a 100-150lb animal with one arm that also has small legs in which it cannot benefit a lift the way a human can, it's nothing but upper body strength and very impressive.

(11-24-2020, 06:06 AM)alexandro Wrote: https://fb.watch/1Y5Ag3uMvI/

A american black bear turn over a big rock for their body size, almost as the "The great bear almanac" book (The book of the screenshot and link to wayback machine of my post). And @Shadow I know what you're talking about th source reliability. I researched about the autor of this book, and was a park ranger in Yellowstone, bear biology expert and bear management expert and consultant (In the same book it appears at the end of this one). And I know all the implications of what you say about the physics of flipping, dragging, or moving a stone. But still, it is impressive, especially in a bear.

(11-24-2020, 11:35 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 06:06 AM)alexandro Wrote: https://fb.watch/1Y5Ag3uMvI/

A american black bear turn over a big rock for their body size, almost as the "The great bear almanac" book (The book of the screenshot and link to wayback machine of my post). And @Shadow I know what you're talking about th source reliability. I researched about the autor of this book, and was a park ranger in Yellowstone, bear biology expert and bear management expert and consultant (In the same book it appears at the end of this one). And I know all the implications of what you say about the physics of flipping, dragging, or moving a stone. But still, it is impressive, especially in a bear.

There are videos of bears flipping stones and they do it usually with relative ease. But that book can give somewhat exaggerated image for people because as I said, dragging adult moose is something else than dragging some deer. And when reading that page which you linked some people can get the impression that bears would drag very big carcasses just like that, which doesn´t happen in any video clip really and there are some in which a bear tries to drag big moose. They can do it, but it demands some real effort. I have seen only one video of bear running with juvenile moose carcass which might have been 200-250 kg maybe.

And I would love to see a bear dragging 450 kg (1000 lbs) half a mile up almost vertical mountain. Until I see something proving even half of that claim I´m very cautious to take such claims too seriously, no matter who makes such claim. In past there wasn´t so much authentic video footage as today. Comparing real situations to claims in books makes it harder and harder to take some claims for granted. I live in a country with bears and moose and I´ve never heard here that kind of stories as in that book.

(11-24-2020, 08:39 PM)alexandro Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 11:35 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-24-2020, 06:06 AM)alexandro Wrote: https://fb.watch/1Y5Ag3uMvI/

A american black bear turn over a big rock for their body size, almost as the "The great bear almanac" book (The book of the screenshot and link to wayback machine of my post). And @Shadow I know what you're talking about th source reliability. I researched about the autor of this book, and was a park ranger in Yellowstone, bear biology expert and bear management expert and consultant (In the same book it appears at the end of this one). And I know all the implications of what you say about the physics of flipping, dragging, or moving a stone. But still, it is impressive, especially in a bear.

There are videos of bears flipping stones and they do it usually with relative ease. But that book can give somewhat exaggerated image for people because as I said, dragging adult moose is something else than dragging some deer. And when reading that page which you linked some people can get the impression that bears would drag very big carcasses just like that, which doesn´t happen in any video clip really and there are some in which a bear tries to drag big moose. They can do it, but it demands some real effort. I have seen only one video of bear running with juvenile moose carcass which might have been 200-250 kg maybe.

And I would love to see a bear dragging 450 kg (1000 lbs) half a mile up almost vertical mountain. Until I see something proving even half of that claim I´m very cautious to take such claims too seriously, no matter who makes such claim. In past there wasn´t so much authentic video footage as today. Comparing real situations to claims in books makes it harder and harder to take some claims for granted. I live in a country with bears and moose and I´ve never heard here that kind of stories as in that book.

Personally, I do believe that a brown bear weighing almost 400 kg can drag 1000 lb. carcasses, but horizontally. But what can be given authenticity and certainty is the stories of bears turning over huge rocks for their size with one paw (And that was what interested me most about that part of the book I mentioned). I showed that book so that you could see that the statements of brother bear were really taken from that book (He quoted it once in the thread "Bear strength"), since I had seen it and read it on the wayback machine.