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+----- Thread: The Birmingham Males (/topic-the-birmingham-males)
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RE: The Birmingham Males - criollo2mil - 10-06-2022
(10-05-2022, 11:24 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: NK and Nhenha again roaring and scent marking in western sector, looks like they are ready for another clash with PC males, who where also seen in the area :
I recognized this from before. It’s from a few weeks back.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Slayerd - 10-06-2022
(10-06-2022, 12:14 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: To be honest, we have been hearing this debate for a while now. Back with the Avocas and now with the PC Males.
But ultimately nothing really came from it.
I think Nhenha is a very cautious lion and isn't going to risk fighting fights he isn't sure he can win. While Nym mostly follows his lead.
So its not likely they will actually defend their territory should the PCmales invade. Unless it's just one of them and the Birminghams are both together or some other scenario shows up that would give them an edge. As the Othawa male found out.
While this is a very good strategy for a coalition to survive and retain some territory. Especially one in competition with coalitions equal or stronger in strength.
It's not a reliable defence for a pride and cubs as it requires a lot of retreating.
Seeing the Ximhungwe pride hasn't had any cubs yet. It would be better if they had their big definitive clash now. Rather than dragging it out until there are cubs and subadults to mourn.
No this is very different from the Birmingham/Avoca conflict. Very, very different. The Avocas were pressuring the Bboys, they were not directly challenging them. If they did directly challenge them from the get go, I'm almost certain there would have been a fight.
The Avocas pressured the Bboys northern territory since 2020 and it often ended in the Birminghams pushing the Avocas back or the Avocas gaining more territory. Nhenha for eg. chasing both males himself in Londolozi and Mala Mala saying the Bboys chased the PC breakaway, the Four ways pride and Avocas and Nkuhuma pride in 24 hours. The Avocas were playing the waiting game and the Birminghams were exiting their prime. By 2021,Tinyo was losing condition and the Avocas were pushing further. They were going back and forth till the end. Nhenha and Tinyo even chased Blondie off a carcass just before the end.
I'm actually curious where Nhenha got this "cautious" title. People saw Nhenha run from Mohawk after being caught off guard but seem to forget that he returned with Tinyo to that very same location on a Mala Mala video not soon after. He chased out the Nwalungu Males by himself, chased the PC Males by himself, him and Tinyo chased the Nwaswitshaka and even went south to patrol Sabi Sabi despite the Nwaswitshaka threat,. I'd say he has done very daring things. He even attempted to attack the PC Males by himself during this invasion. So why do you say he wouldn't defend his territory? Why did he track the PC Males if not to do something?
The Othawa Male is also a bad example. The Othawa Male and Birmingham Boys had a very weird dynamic. They almost didn't see him as a threat to them for the longest time. They would chase him off carcasses, he would run if the roars got too near, they were seen in locations he had been a day before, they used to even go into his territory but they would never go out of their way to get rid of him. They almost got used to his presence and saw him as a neighbor. Until he got too confident and went too close to them, he was almost excepted by them like Dark Mane to his brothers.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Duco Ndona - 10-06-2022
Ultimately it never turned in a fight to actually deal with the Intrusions. Patrolling and tracking is not the same as actually confronting an opponent. While waiting for backup only shows a more cautious approach. The whole thing just dragged on while they lost territory and a cub.
And if they fled just a month earlier. Then why would now be different?
RE: The Birmingham Males - Chris - 10-08-2022
(10-05-2022, 11:21 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(10-05-2022, 10:33 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Not sure they would stand up to them even together to be honest, in the Singita March report they mentioned them fleeing from the PCM constantly
I dont think report from March is valid, as around that time Nhenha and NK only got together, ofc they wont fight dominant males.
But yea, looks like they are back west, roaring and scent marking, PC boys also seen west now, clash 2.0 is inevitable it seems.
Exactly, a lot has changed from march to now. Nkhuma males has grown in size and confidence and his bond with his father is even stronger than before.
RE: The Birmingham Males - lionuk - 10-08-2022
Nhenha seen yesterday
Credit: Ibosch
RE: The Birmingham Males - Mapokser - 10-09-2022
(10-05-2022, 10:20 PM)Chris Wrote:(10-05-2022, 06:46 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I'd love to see Gingerella having a big litter but I'm not exactly thrilled by seeing her mating with Nhenha. NK and him are clearly not strong enough to hold this territory and will become nomads again at the first sight of the PCM.
Disagree, Nkhuma male is starting to mature and continues to grow in size. His confidence is slowly increasing day by day. If both him and nhena were together when they faced the plains camp males, the story wouldn’t have been, “ they ran away”, the story would have have been “it was a huge clash between the plains camp and Birminghams”
NK and PCM are the same age... In fact @Tr1x24 said NK is older. So if he grows in confidence so does the PCM.
This comes down to 2 things IMO:
1- Nhenha might be in an amazing shape, but he's still a very old lion, if he was in his prime sure, he'd might have it in him to take on the impressive PCM 2v2, but it's plain clear he won't be doing it currently;
2- PCM are bigger, stronger, closer to each other, and more aggressive. I'd put my money on them even if Nhenha was younger, so as things stand right now it's not a surprise Nhenha isn't even willing to put up some resistance.
As mentioned already, Bboys were repeatedly chased back by the PCM in march; a couple of weeks ago they were chased again which made them turn nomadic and go as far as the KNP border; and new reports now seems to confirm that once again the PCM chased them in their own territory.
They returned in the same way Skorro Jr returned when he first became nomadic due to his rivals pressure: he took his first taste of it, thought life was tough and tried his luck thinking "I miss the females, maybe I'll go back and get some free food, luckily the enemy won't be there", but as soon as he was attacked again he went full nomadic.
Most would love to see the cool coalition of Nhenha and his son/nephew as dominant males again, but let's be honest, they lack the strength to do so, therefore, leaving now is in their best interest and honestly in the best interest of every other lion in the Western sector. If this drags, what we'll see is the PCM killing the future Ximhungwe cubs unchallenged, and Bboys & PCM killing Othawas, until at some point the PCM eventually put an end to one of the Bboys, maybe the NK who's young and has an entire life ahead of him with many other young males around for him to potentially join, especially considering his experience in doing exactly that twice.
RE: The Birmingham Males - DARK MANE - 10-09-2022
(10-09-2022, 06:28 AM)Mapokser Wrote: NK and PCM are the same age... In fact @Tr1x24 said NK is older.Nkuhuma male was born in September- November 2016. PC males were born in june 2017.
Nkuhuma male is undergrown from day 1.
Check in the video. It's of December 2019.
Even the rangers confused him with females until they see his BALLS.
This boyboy was having no mane at 3+ yrs age.
He stay alive as lone male for so long because Avocas misunderstood him as female until he was 4.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Chris - 10-09-2022
(10-09-2022, 06:28 AM)Mapokser Wrote:(10-05-2022, 10:20 PM)Chris Wrote:(10-05-2022, 06:46 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I'd love to see Gingerella having a big litter but I'm not exactly thrilled by seeing her mating with Nhenha. NK and him are clearly not strong enough to hold this territory and will become nomads again at the first sight of the PCM.
Disagree, Nkhuma male is starting to mature and continues to grow in size. His confidence is slowly increasing day by day. If both him and nhena were together when they faced the plains camp males, the story wouldn’t have been, “ they ran away”, the story would have have been “it was a huge clash between the plains camp and Birminghams”
NK and PCM are the same age... In fact @Tr1x24 said NK is older. So if he grows in confidence so does the PCM.
This comes down to 2 things IMO:
1- Nhenha might be in an amazing shape, but he's still a very old lion, if he was on his prime sure, he'd might have it on him to take on the impressive PCM 2v2, but it's plain clear he won't be doing it currently;
2- PCM are bigger, stronger, closer to each other, and more aggressive. I'd put my money on them even if Nhenha was younger, so as things stand right now it's not a surprise Nhenha isn't even willing to put up some resistance.
As mentioned already, Bboys were repeatedly chased back by the PCM in march; a couple of weeks ago they were chased again which made them turn nomadic and go as far as the KNP border; and new reports now seems to confirm that once again the PCM chased them in their own territory.
They returned in the same way Skorro Jr returned when he first became nomadic due to his rivals pressure: he took his first taste of it, thought life was tough and tried his luck thinking "I miss the females, maybe I'll go back and get some free food, luckily the enemy won't be there", but as soon as he was attacked again he went full nomadic.
Most would love to see the cool coalition of Nhenha and his son/nephew as dominant males again, but let's be honest, they lack the strength to do so, therefore, leaving now is in their best interest and honestly in the best interest of every other lion in the Western sector. If this drags, what'll see is the PCM killing the future Ximhungwe cubs unchallenged, and Bboys & PCM killing Othawas, until at some point the PCM eventually put an end to one of the Bboys, maybe the NK who's young and has an entire life ahead of him with many other young males around for him to potentially join, especially considering his experience in doing exactly that twice.
Incorrect. Of course the PCM males have a lot of confidence because they been together for all their lives and they haven’t had to go through challenges. In the case of the Nkhuma male, he has been through a lot. First losing his coalition partner the styx male, then being nomadic for quite a while. Believe it or not, but that takes a huge toll on the confidence level and also the inmense stress that he was going through contributed to the lack of growth and development of his body and mane. Now he’s in a more stable situation with his father, we can see how’s he’s slowly becoming confident and he’s growing in size. There is no need to jump into conclusions, but I do see in the future Nkhuma and nhena having and defending a pride or even prides.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Duco Ndona - 10-09-2022
I dont know. It seems the whole long term survival of that coalition rests on Nym.
In the 3 years it takes to succesfully hold on to a pride, Both the PCmales and Nym will be getting further into their prime. While Nhenha will be leaving his and will only decline from now on. If Nym doesnt start to take charge when that time comes, he wont put up much of a fight either.
Their best option is to confront the PCmales now and either score a decisive victory giving them enough time. Or go up in flames, but atleast it happens before there are cubs to mourn.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tonpa - 10-09-2022
They've already fled back to londolozi
Photo by Sam Kate, a guest
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: The Birmingham Males - sik94 - 10-09-2022
(10-09-2022, 03:17 PM)Tonpa Wrote: They've already fled back to londolozi
https://instagram.com/stories/samkate_7/2945067000575868122?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
NYM looking in fantastic condition, this version of him can definitely compete with PCMs.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Horizon - 10-09-2022
(10-09-2022, 03:17 PM)Tonpa Wrote: They've already fled back to londolozi
https://instagram.com/stories/samkate_7/2945067000575868122?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
Yep, I believe you. Whether one likes it or not, clearly the attack is coming from one side.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Potato - 10-09-2022
(10-09-2022, 07:17 PM)sik94 Wrote:(10-09-2022, 03:17 PM)Tonpa Wrote: They've already fled back to londolozi
https://instagram.com/stories/samkate_7/2945067000575868122?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
NYM looking in fantastic condition, this version of him can definitely compete with PCMs.
He ran from the at each time... So far Nhenha/Nkuchuma showed they are not able at all to compete with PC males.
RE: The Birmingham Males - afortich - 10-09-2022
(10-09-2022, 03:17 PM)Tonpa Wrote: They've already fled back to londolozi
https://instagram.com/stories/samkate_7/2945067000575868122?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
Who fled?? Nhenha and NYM??
Thanks!
RE: The Birmingham Males - Mdz123 - 10-09-2022
(10-09-2022, 10:13 PM)afortich Wrote:(10-09-2022, 03:17 PM)Tonpa Wrote: They've already fled back to londolozi
https://instagram.com/stories/samkate_7/2945067000575868122?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
Who fled?? Nhenha and NYM??
Thanks!
Nhena and NYM lost to PC boys again, the shouldnt return now cuz its the second time