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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of sabi sands - Tshokwane - 08-30-2016

Awesome, he's growing into a good looking lion like his pops.

I'm so glad we have been able to keep contact with these kids, as the Kruger is just a vast place and we could easily never see them again.

RE: Lions of sabi sands - Gamiz - 09-03-2016

Charleston lioness and Hilda Rock male.

Credits to Eckson Sithole 

*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of sabi sands - jacksonsmash - 09-03-2016

what area are the charleston pride located.hilda rock male looks a little young is he part of a coalition?

RE: Lions of sabi sands - jacksonsmash - 09-03-2016

im aware of the tsalala breakaway pride ...........is ther a styx breakawy group as well

RE: Lions of sabi sands - jacksonsmash - 09-03-2016

sand river pride?are they in sabi sands?any males?

RE: Lions of sabi sands - Ngala - 09-04-2016

From E.p. Rangers:
"Tsalala pride male lion - Neil Coetzer"

*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of sabi sands - Tshokwane - 09-04-2016

(09-03-2016, 11:35 AM)jacksonsmash Wrote: what area are the charleston pride located.hilda rock male looks a little young is he part of a coalition?

There's only the one Charleston lioness and her kids. The male is a very young one that is tolerant of the cubs, in fact he plays with them as if he's their big brother. I think they live to the south of the Sabi sands, maybe even into Kruger.

Quote:im aware of the tsalala breakaway pride ...........is ther a styx breakawy group as well

There was prior of the arrivla of the Birmingham males, but they've united since then so they're all together now.


Quote:sand river pride?are they in sabi sands?any males?


To the south of the Sabi sands, I don't know much about them, but the male that is dominant over them is the last Toulon male.

RE: Lions of sabi sands - Tshokwane - 09-04-2016

From Londolozi, Mhangeni Pride: More Cubs Than Last Time: by James Tyrrell.

In September three years ago we were enjoying some of the most spectacular lion viewing in recent memory, as the newly-named Mhangeni pride with their nine cubs were spending much of their time in the north western section of Londolozi. Zebras were forming the largest part of their diet, and scarcely a week went by without them being found on a new carcass of one of the striped equines.


Being realistic about the survival chances of lion cubs in an area like the Sabi Sands, our hopes were not particularly high that all of the nine would survive (there was also a tenth that disappeared early on), but three years later and all of them are in great health.

Seven of the first batch of Mhangeni cubs atop a rock in the Sand River. Photograph by James Tyrrell

*This image is copyright of its original author

Under the continued protection of the Majingilane coalition, the Mhangeni lionesses were able to raise all the cubs in this photo to independence. Photograph by James Tyrrell

*This image is copyright of its original author

Many of our online followers will know that the nine sub-adults (or Mhangeni breakaways as they are currently known) have been hunting buffalo with increasing success during these dry months, and in recent weeks have had their numbers bolstered by the joining of one of the Talamati males into the group. It is likely that over the next few months the young males will split permanently, ideally for their sake having the Talamati male remaining with them.


What then will happen to the six Breakaway females?

Their mothers, the adult Mhangeni lionesses, have meanwhile been reproducing again, and this time around they have no less than 12 cubs between them! Although they have been seen on Londolozi, they have been spending much of their time west of our boundary in the Sand River, using previous den-sites to stash the cubs.

One of the latest batch of cubs snarls aggressively at one of the adult lionesses from atop a hippo carcass. Photograph by Alistair Smith

*This image is copyright of its original author

The two groups of females might reunite, but personally I think that a pride of 10 big lionesses along with 12 cubs, although an absolute treat to view, will be too big an entity to be properly manageable going forward, especially given the fact that the Breakaway females have been mating and are also likely to have cubs within the year. My gut tells me that given the history of the prides in the lineage (Tsalala breaking away from Castleton pride, Mhangeni pride breaking away from the Tsalalas, and now the Mhangeni sub-adults breaking away themselves), the two groups won’t reunite permanently. The western and south-western areas of Londolozi are primed for a pride to set up a permanent territory there, and with the increased buffalo movement through the area, it is looking increasingly like the Mhangeni breakaways will be putting down roots in the region.

The blue area shows the rough area of movement of the Mhangeni breakaways over the last couple of months. The red dot is the approximate position of the den-site being most utilized by the adult Mhangeni lionesses to stash their current litters of 12 cubs.

*This image is copyright of its original author

In terms of lion viewing, this is probably a better scenario; two prides instead of one. Two groups to track each morning. Two potential buffalo hunts to view at night.


Prides come and go, and to be there to witness the establishment of a new one is a true privilege. Whether it will happen again or not remains to be seen, but I imagine that by this time next year, the Mhangeni pride will consist only of four adult lionesses and however many cubs survive from the original twelve.

The Breakaways will most likely have a new name. What it will be remains to be decided. They have broken away, now they just have to stay away to earn the right to be named…

RE: Lions of sabi sands - Tshokwane - 09-04-2016

So to leave it clear, all the young cubs born to the adult lionesses are sons and daughters of the Majingilane. These lionesses have not been mating with the Matimba males.

On the other hand, the daughters of the Majingilane, the Mangheni girls have been mating with the Matimbas, so in that case the cubs will be Matimba offsprings.

RE: Lions of sabi sands - jacksonsmash - 09-05-2016

game of thrones has nothing on this stuff. Lol

RE: Lions of sabi sands - LionKiss - 09-05-2016

(09-04-2016, 09:10 PM)Majingilane Wrote: So to leave it clear, all the young cubs born to the adult lionesses are sons and daughters of the Majingilane. These lionesses have not been mating with the Matimba males.

On the other hand, the daughters of the Majingilane, the Mangheni girls have been mating with the Matimbas, so in that case the cubs will be Matimba offsprings.

still it is not clear who the fathers are,


http://blog.londolozi.com/2016/09/the-ultimate-winter-highlights-packagethe-very-best-we-saw-this-winter/




Quote:A Mhangeni lioness carries one of her cubs across a portion of the Sand River. This pride has also birthed 12 new youngsters into the pride and we are unsure if they have been fathered by the Matimba or Majingilane coalition. Recently the original pride, new youngsters and the breakaway portion joined for a day, temporarily creating a pride of 22! Photography by Amy Attenborough.
 

it does not matter too much anyways.

RE: Lions of sabi sands - Tshokwane - 09-05-2016

Yeah, many in the comments tried to say that.

Quote:And another thing i want to add is that you guys need to clear the confusion of the Mhangeni cubs fatherhood. Since its obvious that there has not been any sort of Majingilane/Mhangeni interaction over the last year. We need to accept that the Matimba Males are the fathers of those cubs.
Quote:The adult lionesses have brought their cubs into Matimba territory very often which is enough for us to believe that those cubs are Matimba Hairy Belly cubs.
Quote:I think i haven’t heard of an update of Mhangeni interacting with Majingilane over the last year. Also their territory as shown above doesn’t extend to Majingilane territory. Doubt Majingilane sired the new cubs. Likely fayhers are Matimba Males.
Quote:Chris… The new set of Mhangeni cubs are sired by Matimba Males.

And yet, Londolozi's answer is always the same.
Quote:it is almost certainly the Majingilane that are the fathers of the cubs, not the Matimbas. They were seen mating with the Mhangeni adult lionesses in Singita and further west.
Quote:That is not conclusive enough proof unfortunately, and in terms of being in Matimba territory, they have only brought the cubs into the very fringes of the areas in which the Matimbas appear.

It is generally accepted by those on the ground here that the cubs are fathered by the Majingilane.
Quote:The bottom line:
It is always possible for the Mhangeni lionesses to have mated with the Matimbas without anyone having witnessed it.
Given that different male lions can sire different cubs in the same litter, it would therefore be impossible to conclude with any amount of certainty who the actual fathers of the cubs are.
In a litter of 6 it would be hypothetically possible to have both Matimbas as well as all four Majingilane each fathering one cub….

We cannot therefore say for sure, despite far more mating interaction having taken place between the Mhangeni adults and the Majingilane. We have also yet to see the Matimba males with the cubs. On the contrary, the Majingilane have been spending a lot of time with the youngsters and the adult females.

For me, that leaves it quite clear. They are there, watching them everyday while everyone else is just reading words in a computer.

The one thing that they expressed was this:
Quote:The Breakaway Mhangeni females have been mating with the Matimba males however, so should they have cubs within the next year it is almost certain they will have been fathered by the Matimbas.


RE: Lions of sabi sands - LionKiss - 09-05-2016

the Londolozi's answer is not clear at all,
the quoted comment is a comment from Londolozi,
check the link above, scroll down to the photo with the mahngeni lioness



*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of sabi sands - Tshokwane - 09-06-2016

(09-05-2016, 10:44 AM)LionKiss Wrote:
(09-04-2016, 09:10 PM)Majingilane Wrote: So to leave it clear, all the young cubs born to the adult lionesses are sons and daughters of the Majingilane. These lionesses have not been mating with the Matimba males.

On the other hand, the daughters of the Majingilane, the Mangheni girls have been mating with the Matimbas, so in that case the cubs will be Matimba offsprings.

still it is not clear who the fathers are,


http://blog.londolozi.com/2016/09/the-ultimate-winter-highlights-packagethe-very-best-we-saw-this-winter/




Quote:A Mhangeni lioness carries one of her cubs across a portion of the Sand River. This pride has also birthed 12 new youngsters into the pride and we are unsure if they have been fathered by the Matimba or Majingilane coalition. Recently the original pride, new youngsters and the breakaway portion joined for a day, temporarily creating a pride of 22! Photography by Amy Attenborough.
 

it does not matter too much anyways.

(09-05-2016, 08:30 PM)LionKiss Wrote: the Londolozi's answer is not clear at all,
the quoted comment is a comment from Londolozi,
check the link above, scroll down to the photo with the mahngeni lioness



*This image is copyright of its original author
Oh yes, the comment you posted was from Londolozi. 

The thing is, somehow you forgot to put the entire comment under that pic:
Quote:A Mhangeni lioness carries one of her cubs across a portion of the Sand River. This pride has also birthed 12 new youngsters into the pride and we are unsure if they have been fathered by the Matimba or Majingilane coalition, although the Majingilanes are the most likely. Recently the original pride, new youngsters and the breakaway portion joined for a day, temporarily creating a pride of 22! Photography by Amy Attenborough.

See how it is?

They're not 100% sure, but the odds are that the Majingilane are the fathers.

But now I don't want a useless war over-analizing this just because the answer is not of the liking of some.

In any case, enjoy the new cubs.

RE: Lions of sabi sands - Tshokwane - 09-06-2016

Great news!

It seems that the second Styx male, the one that wasn't seen for a while, is alive!. Apparently though, he's separated from his brother, which is why they haven't been seen together.
Here's a pic of him, credits to Estiaan Houy.
 
*This image is copyright of its original author