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+----- Thread: Jaguar Directory (/topic-jaguar-directory)
RE: Jaguar Directory - Balam - 05-22-2021
(05-22-2021, 08:39 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(05-22-2021, 03:42 AM)Balam Wrote: SOUTHERN PANTANAL
Male registered at Fazenda Barranco Alto last March, unknown name to me.
*This image is copyright of its original author
From 2013 the massive male Macho A, certainly one of the largest from this area during that time
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
@Dark Jaguar who do you think was bigger between Macho A and Colombiano? It's very hard to tell but I think Macho A was stockier, would've loved for them to have been captured. Leaving aside Manco whose actual reliable weight remains debatable, Sossego could possibly hold the title of the largest jaguar from this ranch but he was barely in his prime when captured and I think Colombiano and Macho A were likely larger, being possibly older based on footage from them as well.
@Balam
The male jaguar you posted from the camera trap at Fazenda Barranco Alto is M&M (Matheus Manco).
And now he is around 7 y.o (based on his first capture at 4 y.o in 2018).
Macho A was a jaguar that I many times looked for infos but with not much luck, he was indeed big and I wanted to see more of him but Colombiano IMO had a ''complete package'' mostly cause I think Colombiano's head is larger.
Overall dimensions body wise it probably seems close but its hard to tell as Macho A footage are more scarce than Colombiano's. But IMO Colombiano takes it for me specially regarding head/jaws/cheek dimension/proportions related to the rest of the body that makes him look rather cartoonish.
One thing that surprises me and I personally find impressive the most on jaguars is not even sheer sizes but their head sizes to body relation (cartoonish lookings).
Specimens with massive cartoonish heads that looks like that their heads were taken from a larger scaled puppet cat and put on a stocky body makes their heads scream dimensions. Specimens with this feature way more clearly visible looks much more impressive to me than ''just'' a large body frame and from what we've got Colombiano takes this for me. And I think Colombiano even appeared to be a bit of a tall jaguar but its just me.
Sossego was captured at 5 years old in 2015. He was an impressive looking male but I'd still give the edge to Colombiano, that dude just screamed Large proportions, even when he was empty.
I still wanna see more of Macho A though, he looks thick and maybe they're both on pair on this aspect but I am not sure if Colombiano was less stocky than Macho A, Colombiano was also very muscular as you can see bellow with very visible muscle definition that looks like it was drew by Da Vinci.
VIDEO
*This image is copyright of its original author
Note above his head rather big compared to the rest of his body (which isn't small) as he is laying down and then as he gets up to walk away you see not only his muscles definitions but also Colombiano's head which by him getting the distance the head still looks huge related to his muscular body even though his head is the furthest away part of his body from the camera angle that continues getting further, further and further away (yet cartoonish looking). Jaguars as species got this feature but some specimen got it on an way that blows my mind, I can only imagine the head circumference measure of these freak beasts.
And of course a nice comparison to have an indication of Colombiano's size was that fight in 2017 against Mancha-Preta male (who was captured and weighed 101 kg) compared to Colombiano side by side you can see a good comparison between a normal sized Pantanal male to a large sized Pantanal male (Note their Head/Chest/Body proportions comparisons). And Due to their sheer sizes difference there's not even the need to tell who is who.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
VIDEO
*This image is copyright of its original author
Thats my opinion but we never know who was really larger but Colombiano was acknowledged to be a massive beast from Onças do Rio Negro even before I knew him, they described him to be probably the closest jaguar to 150 kg they've ever seen and the Onçafari biologist acknowledged him to be huge as well.
As you said the Bad thing is they'll never be captured but I think in the past there were chances of Colombiano being captured by that project at around over 6 years ago but I assume Colombiano just didn't fall on the snaretrap, but if he did... the Onças do Rio Negro team would definitely had needed a larger weighing machine scale.
*This image is copyright of its original author
I was pondering on Manco's overall proportions and size lately considering the discrepancies we have from his initial capture to his latest one. He was captured just by the time he had reached proper adulthood and later progressively lost weight which seems very odd to me. By his third captured he looked significant more frail, thin, and weak, could it be that he had parasites or had some sort of sicknesses that deteriorated his body condition? Who knows, after all the people who captured him are not keen on sharing much information about him. It'd be great if Manco could be recaptured now that he's at the peak of his prime to see at what level of overall mass he settled into, but based on that footage he doesn't look too healthy to me, what do you think?
In regards to Colombiano, I always refer back to that footage of him crossing the river because it really does detail the large body frame he had. IMO Macho A was still stockier but Colombiano could've possibly had a larger frame. I think Colombiano's longer legs could've given him the overall frame of a large lioness, akin to Edno who I also believe to have a very large frame for a jaguar. Other very bulky males like Balam or Joker appear stockier to me but lower at the shoulders, so their overall frame could be smaller than Colombiano's or Edno, and Macho A possibly also fits the description of Balam or Joker.
Moreover, there are so many massive males popping up from different areas of the Pantanal that I genuinely feel like we'll get more surprises in terms of freakish sizes as more captures take place. Speaking of which, do you know why Onças do Rio Negro stopped their operations? It's been a couple of years now and they have basically stopped sharing content. I know Onçafari works closely with them but even so it seems odd to me that they would just stopped engaging in field research in such a sudden manner.
Oh and btw, I received confirmation that the capture campaign at Da Ilha has seized for now, so we're going to have to wait for Pança and other males from that area to be captured, but I'm sure that the research there is only starting.
RE: Jaguar Directory - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2021
(05-22-2021, 06:14 PM)Balam Wrote:(05-22-2021, 08:39 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(05-22-2021, 03:42 AM)Balam Wrote: SOUTHERN PANTANAL
Male registered at Fazenda Barranco Alto last March, unknown name to me.
*This image is copyright of its original author
From 2013 the massive male Macho A, certainly one of the largest from this area during that time
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
@Dark Jaguar who do you think was bigger between Macho A and Colombiano? It's very hard to tell but I think Macho A was stockier, would've loved for them to have been captured. Leaving aside Manco whose actual reliable weight remains debatable, Sossego could possibly hold the title of the largest jaguar from this ranch but he was barely in his prime when captured and I think Colombiano and Macho A were likely larger, being possibly older based on footage from them as well.
@Balam
The male jaguar you posted from the camera trap at Fazenda Barranco Alto is M&M (Matheus Manco).
And now he is around 7 y.o (based on his first capture at 4 y.o in 2018).
Macho A was a jaguar that I many times looked for infos but with not much luck, he was indeed big and I wanted to see more of him but Colombiano IMO had a ''complete package'' mostly cause I think Colombiano's head is larger.
Overall dimensions body wise it probably seems close but its hard to tell as Macho A footage are more scarce than Colombiano's. But IMO Colombiano takes it for me specially regarding head/jaws/cheek dimension/proportions related to the rest of the body that makes him look rather cartoonish.
One thing that surprises me and I personally find impressive the most on jaguars is not even sheer sizes but their head sizes to body relation (cartoonish lookings).
Specimens with massive cartoonish heads that looks like that their heads were taken from a larger scaled puppet cat and put on a stocky body makes their heads scream dimensions. Specimens with this feature way more clearly visible looks much more impressive to me than ''just'' a large body frame and from what we've got Colombiano takes this for me. And I think Colombiano even appeared to be a bit of a tall jaguar but its just me.
Sossego was captured at 5 years old in 2015. He was an impressive looking male but I'd still give the edge to Colombiano, that dude just screamed Large proportions, even when he was empty.
I still wanna see more of Macho A though, he looks thick and maybe they're both on pair on this aspect but I am not sure if Colombiano was less stocky than Macho A, Colombiano was also very muscular as you can see bellow with very visible muscle definition that looks like it was drew by Da Vinci.
VIDEO
*This image is copyright of its original author
Note above his head rather big compared to the rest of his body (which isn't small) as he is laying down and then as he gets up to walk away you see not only his muscles definitions but also Colombiano's head which by him getting the distance the head still looks huge related to his muscular body even though his head is the furthest away part of his body from the camera angle that continues getting further, further and further away (yet cartoonish looking). Jaguars as species got this feature but some specimen got it on an way that blows my mind, I can only imagine the head circumference measure of these freak beasts.
And of course a nice comparison to have an indication of Colombiano's size was that fight in 2017 against Mancha-Preta male (who was captured and weighed 101 kg) compared to Colombiano side by side you can see a good comparison between a normal sized Pantanal male to a large sized Pantanal male (Note their Head/Chest/Body proportions comparisons). And Due to their sheer sizes difference there's not even the need to tell who is who.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
VIDEO
*This image is copyright of its original author
Thats my opinion but we never know who was really larger but Colombiano was acknowledged to be a massive beast from Onças do Rio Negro even before I knew him, they described him to be probably the closest jaguar to 150 kg they've ever seen and the Onçafari biologist acknowledged him to be huge as well.
As you said the Bad thing is they'll never be captured but I think in the past there were chances of Colombiano being captured by that project at around over 6 years ago but I assume Colombiano just didn't fall on the snaretrap, but if he did... the Onças do Rio Negro team would definitely had needed a larger weighing machine scale.
*This image is copyright of its original author
I was pondering on Manco's overall proportions and size lately considering the discrepancies we have from his initial capture to his latest one. He was captured just by the time he had reached proper adulthood and later progressively lost weight which seems very odd to me. By his third captured he looked significant more frail, thin, and weak, could it be that he had parasites or had some sort of sicknesses that deteriorated his body condition? Who knows, after all the people who captured him are not keen on sharing much information about him. It'd be great if Manco could be recaptured now that he's at the peak of his prime to see at what level of overall mass he settled into, but based on that footage he doesn't look too healthy to me, what do you think?
In regards to Colombiano, I always refer back to that footage of him crossing the river because it really does detail the large body frame he had. IMO Macho A was still stockier but Colombiano could've possibly had a larger frame. I think Colombiano's longer legs could've given him the overall frame of a large lioness, akin to Edno who I also believe to have a very large frame for a jaguar. Other very bulky males like Balam or Joker appear stockier to me but lower at the shoulders, so their overall frame could be smaller than Colombiano's or Edno, and Macho A possibly also fits the description of Balam or Joker.
Moreover, there are so many massive males popping up from different areas of the Pantanal that I genuinely feel like we'll get more surprises in terms of freakish sizes as more captures take place. Speaking of which, do you know why Onças do Rio Negro stopped their operations? It's been a couple of years now and they have basically stopped sharing content. I know Onçafari works closely with them but even so it seems odd to me that they would just stopped engaging in field research in such a sudden manner.
Oh and btw, I received confirmation that the capture campaign at Da Ilha has seized for now, so we're going to have to wait for Pança and other males from that area to be captured, but I'm sure that the research there is only starting.
From that ''crossing river video'' you can even compare both males when they're lying down even though they were laid down on different positions I find Colombiano head related to the body more impressive as Macho A head doesn't look as big to me and that comparison of Mancha Preta vs Colombiano I think its as good as we can get for a size idea of him even better than the crossing river video.
I agree with the whole comparison of the big males you mentioned but I also find Lopez a bit tall looking similar to Colombiano.
In the whole Pantanal wetlands there will always be big animals showing up as long as the whole plains is well conserved and preserved. But in the moment I don't see any capture campaign going on this year outside of Refúgio da Ilha, even Leandro hasn't captured any cerrado jaguar this year yet (despite we won't get to see their weights anyways).
Yeah, Colombiano with that lioness sized frame adding that huge cartoonish head is what blows my mind and I am not talking about only big jags from Pantanal but also the 30-40ish kg Caatinga jags, they look like stocky beasts on a smaller scale and I get more excited for them even more than the larger scaled ones from the Pantanal which are expected to be big, you can see by the 43 kg Lampião Caatinga male, such a beast and I get amazed by them.
Too bad they're the rarest but Hopefully with the semen collection work of Reprocon and other Institutions they can save Caatinga jags in case things go insanely difficult in the future for them. Thats the main reason Reprocon is doing this collection in the Pantanal. To save Caatinga and At. Forest jags for the future.
About M&M's 3rd capture in February 2019 at first I thought he looked in bad shape because of that angle of M&M looking rather thin but after seeing more footages shown by Carlão he looks good to me and the animals are also well medicated during the capture and the veterinarians check their conditions, if M&M was with some sort of bad condition they would've mentioned it just like the case of Jatobazinho who had Onças do Rio Negro as one of the projects involved represented by the researcher Gediendson back then who joined the team of other Institutions and projects for Jatobazinho's help and I know it was a different case and situation but they mentioned his bad shape and let it clear.
M&M's 3rd capture he was just very empty and with a weight of 118 kg sounds healthy regardless of how much he weighed on his 2 prior captures, its still a healthy weight for that population, the big drop of weight from the prior captures could be mysterious but I wouldn't say on an unhealthy way as neither bad condition, disease, injure nor sickness was mentioned of him on that capture and I think they wouldn't let M&M return back to the wild if they knew he wouldn't last too long in the wilderness.
Here he is in November 2019, 9 months after his third and last capture so far.
Outside of Carlão's post, in the link HERE is the post of Onças do Rio Negro a few days before the 3rd capture (with M&M collared on the photo from his second capture and their plans to collar other jaguars with the mentioning of M&M being captured twice) and in the link HERE is the 3rd capture post 4 days later, they don't mention him in bad shape they just say they could monitor him for one more year but again IMO if he was bad, sick or carrying some disease at least one of them would've said it on their posts and wouldn't let him back to the wild in such conditions, there's also M&M's 3rd capture on the other vets and biologists pages who is part of the capture team like Carlão and also Maitê Cardoso for example, on her page she didn't mention him to be bad either.
Outside from that photo with the angle that made me think he was in bad conditions and I thought he was much lighter than 118 kg, These ones proved me otherwise and I feel relieved seeing his conditions were much different than I thought. He looks fine to me.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
About the Onças do Rio Negro not posting anything question.... I am not sure what happened to them, its so strange and they aren't posting as often as before in their pages.
I think MAYBE it has something to do with Reprocon as almost the same team and researchers who were from Onças do Rio Negro including Gediendson are now working for Reprocon moving their field work to collect jags semens all the way to Passo do Lontra or MAYBE Onças do Rio Negro might be waiting for the approval of CENAP/ICMBio to do some sort of field research or something.
I feel bad on how they are today as they captured alot of jaguars back in the days at Rio Negro - Aquidauana - MS.
I hope they get back on the field work soon.
RE: Jaguar Directory - Balam - 05-24-2021
NORTHERN PANTANAL
Ãgue is a mom!! For multiple times she was attempting to get pregnant and unfortunately would suffer abortions or her cubs would die. Yesterday amazing news was received that she had two cubs finally! Congratulations Ãgue!
*This image is copyright of its original author
Ailton Lara
RE: Jaguar Directory - Balam - 05-24-2021
(05-24-2021, 08:41 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: Estela
She is the one that I twice called last year as ''The Pretty Big Girl''
credits: Xofred
GIF
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Guess who was sighted yesterday?
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Jaguar Directory - Dark Jaguar - 06-08-2021
Silvia female
Pantanal MT
credits: Rebecca Houseman
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Jaguar Directory - Dark Jaguar - 06-19-2021
Bianca female
credits: Sue Roehl
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Jaguar Directory - Balam - 06-21-2021
Edno
*This image is copyright of its original author
Henrique Olsen
Xingu
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Valter PatrialForest (Caiman)
*This image is copyright of its original author
Gustavo Figueiroa
Balam
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Marcelo Vianna
Pinche (Caiman)
*This image is copyright of its original author
Marcio Silveira
Gaussu and Constantina
*This image is copyright of its original author
Benjamin James
RE: Jaguar Directory - Balam - 06-22-2021
@Dark Jaguar do you remember that massive male with the big scar I posted last year which you estimated to be at least 140 kg? While I haven't been able to find the original footage from that time the same male did get captured and was shown on a recent report, he's from Taiamã. The female in this video is also big, she's easily 80+ kg but he dwarfs her nonetheless:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Three other massive males were shown on the same report:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Full report:
RE: Jaguar Directory - Dark Jaguar - 06-22-2021
(06-22-2021, 02:21 AM)Balam Wrote: @Dark Jaguar do you remember that massive male with the big scar I posted last year which you estimated to be at least 140 kg? While I haven't been able to find the original footage from that time the same male did get captured and was shown on a recent report, he's from Taiamã. The female in this video is also big, she's easily 80+ kg but he dwarfs her nonetheless:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Three other massive males were shown on the same report:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Full report:
Nice find, when you said ''he did get captured'' do you mean he got really captured or captured by images ?? cause I am more than curious now if this male was captured by CENAP/ICMBio and in which capture campaign.
Its good to see him again.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Jaguar Directory - Balam - 06-22-2021
(06-22-2021, 04:45 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(06-22-2021, 02:21 AM)Balam Wrote: @Dark Jaguar do you remember that massive male with the big scar I posted last year which you estimated to be at least 140 kg? While I haven't been able to find the original footage from that time the same male did get captured and was shown on a recent report, he's from Taiamã. The female in this video is also big, she's easily 80+ kg but he dwarfs her nonetheless:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Three other massive males were shown on the same report:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Full report:
Nice find, when you said ''he did get captured'' do you mean he got really captured or captured by images ?? cause I am more than curious now if this male was captured by CENAP/ICMBio and in which capture campaign.
Its good to see him again.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Oops I meant captured on video, had he been physically captured I would've ran to share his weight information lol.
Anyways, I'm extremely surprised in seeing how big some of this Cáceres specimens can get although the data that we have shows more modest sized animals, perhaps the really big males like the ones from that video have yet to be captured. In any case this is a good indicator of the overall good health of the ecosystem and that's what's important.
From the Sandro's killing something positive came about, Richard Rasmussen has been collecting money to supply Reprocon with more collars to capture more jaguars, Leandro Silveira has already donated some to them. They see the importance of collating as many Jaguars as possible to track them since the data collected allows us to monitor them and protect them better. So expect more captures from Passo do Lontra in the near future, and of course more captures at Da Ilha, I know Pança will be captured sooner than later (I spoke with someone involved in Da Ilha and he's just as excited at prospect of capturing him) and I'm starting to think he's on the same size tier as Edno so I'm mentally preparing myself to get the news a newly potentially record-breaking jaguar.
I hope the Onçafari team has learned from the experience with Joker and more people will be present during Pança's capture to successfully lift him up entirely and get his full weight, they might need to start using similar processes to the ones used to weigh tigers and lions for those really large males. With Onçafari and Reprocon actively doing captures our database will grow even more, hopefully Panthera will eventually join as well.
RE: Jaguar Directory - Dark Jaguar - 06-23-2021
(06-22-2021, 07:17 PM)Balam Wrote:(06-22-2021, 04:45 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(06-22-2021, 02:21 AM)Balam Wrote: @Dark Jaguar do you remember that massive male with the big scar I posted last year which you estimated to be at least 140 kg? While I haven't been able to find the original footage from that time the same male did get captured and was shown on a recent report, he's from Taiamã. The female in this video is also big, she's easily 80+ kg but he dwarfs her nonetheless:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Three other massive males were shown on the same report:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Full report:
Nice find, when you said ''he did get captured'' do you mean he got really captured or captured by images ?? cause I am more than curious now if this male was captured by CENAP/ICMBio and in which capture campaign.
Its good to see him again.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Oops I meant captured on video, had he been physically captured I would've ran to share his weight information lol.
Anyways, I'm extremely surprised in seeing how big some of this Cáceres specimens can get although the data that we have shows more modest sized animals, perhaps the really big males like the ones from that video have yet to be captured. In any case this is a good indicator of the overall good health of the ecosystem and that's what's important.
From the Sandro's killing something positive came about, Richard Rasmussen has been collecting money to supply Reprocon with more collars to capture more jaguars, Leandro Silveira has already donated some to them. They see the importance of collating as many Jaguars as possible to track them since the data collected allows us to monitor them and protect them better. So expect more captures from Passo do Lontra in the near future, and of course more captures at Da Ilha, I know Pança will be captured sooner than later (I spoke with someone involved in Da Ilha and he's just as excited at prospect of capturing him) and I'm starting to think he's on the same size tier as Edno so I'm mentally preparing myself to get the news a newly potentially record-breaking jaguar.
I hope the Onçafari team has learned from the experience with Joker and more people will be present during Pança's capture to successfully lift him up entirely and get his full weight, they might need to start using similar processes to the ones used to weigh tigers and lions for those really large males. With Onçafari and Reprocon actively doing captures our database will grow even more, hopefully Panthera will eventually join as well.
Ok, but what I meant is if you were aware if he was captured but didn't know his weight just like the case you were informed that Noca and Jagua were captured but at same time you don't know their weights.
The entire Reprocon case I saw that on TV here, IOP donated 1 collar for Reprocon to capture Pantanal jaguars thats interesting, but I also would like to see IOP continue to capture Cerrado Jaguars as well, looks like they stopped it and are only focusing on the sanctuary, despite not getting their weights at least we know their movements dynamics and after getting Xangô's amazing dimensions which Girth size overlaps quite decently with a few Siberian Tigresses the Cerrado jaguars have excited me way even mooore than before, but what I really hope is another institute like Biotrópicos to start capturing Cerrado jags, I wanna know about their sizes on a much larger database which will be very difficult, there's also Lua Cerrado female captured by Onçafari we don't know her weight, I wanna know if she'll be recaptured.
About Pança if he is captured try to get his measurements with this person you in contact with in case this person is part of the team, Refúgio da Ilha got some nice other jags as well like Sancho, Neo, Vulverine... any of them captured would be nice to see in that area.
With the bad experiences of not lifting up properly big jaguars to weight them in my opinion the first tool to get first (For Any Institute that capture Pantanal Jaguars) would be getting a Tapir weighing machine scale, with such a weighing scale there wouldn't be surprises of ''breaking the scale'' or something since we're talking about the scale of the largest land mammal in Brazil.
RE: Jaguar Directory - epaiva - 06-27-2021
Knives out
By @marlondutoit
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Jaguar Directory - Dark Jaguar - 06-28-2021
Estela and Peter
photo: Danita Delimont
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Jaguar Directory - Pckts - 07-15-2021
jaguaridproject
❣️Guassú and Constantina❣️
Guassú is another huge male that started to show up in the Park last October after the fires.
Constantina is one of Susanna’s cubs from 2019. This is the first recorded of her mating!??
RE: Jaguar Directory - Pckts - 07-29-2021
jaguaridproject
??Jeni and Dumé ??
Thanks @andremoratelli for this wonderful photo!
Jeni hasn’t been seen since 2019 before the devastating fires that swept the region in 2020.
We can’t explain how exciting it is when well known individuals show up years later strong and healthy.
Jeni is the mother of famous Juru ? and Ti. She’s was first seen in 2014.
Dumé is a new male to the region as of 2021. He is another massive male. We hope to see more of him!