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+----- Thread: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage (/topic-avoca-male-lions-and-their-male-lineage)
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RE: Avoca male lions - Tylermartin! - 09-02-2023
(09-02-2023, 05:07 AM)KM600 Wrote: Got to say there’s something that still doesn’t make sense about this Southern Avoca situation, the general consensus is that the lesser-maned Avoca is now nomadic and was last seen in Sabi Sands in Mala Mala. The Nkhulus were last spotted around Sabi Sands I believe when they killed that Sand River sub-adult male, so if they’ve not been in Sabi Sands and as far as I know neither the Gijima males nor the NSW males have claimed the Sand River Pride, how is the remaining Southern Avoca nomadic. Unless the Sand River Pride has went into KNP, it doesn’t make sense why he wouldn’t be with them.
I also wondered why he didn’t return to that pride or the plains camp pride and the nkhulus aren’t far from sabi sands and haven’t tried to take over either pride
RE: Avoca male lions - Mapokser - 09-02-2023
@Tr1x24 IIRC it was confirmed they were mating with Hamilton pride, even the location looked very similar. Though I think I remember word that they were later seen close to their territory, but not photos or videos, nor will I remember now if the info was reliable.
RE: Avoca male lions - Duco Ndona - 09-02-2023
The Avocas lost their resolve and abandoned the pride. Not willing to actually wait for the Nkhulus to begin their push and beat them up or kill them for the pride.
Meanwhile the Nkhulus simply have no idea what is going on and still believe both Southern Avocas are there. Which they arent confident enough to confront yet.
So the pride is left abandoned for now. With neither coalitions brave enough to join them.
RE: Avoca male lions - KM600 - 09-02-2023
(09-02-2023, 12:10 PM)I’m Duco Ndona Wrote: The Avocas lost their resolve and abandoned the pride. Not willing to actually wait for the Nkhulus to begin their push and beat them up or kill them for the pride.This could be a reason fs but it still wouldn’t make sense why the remaining Southern Avoca in SS would venture into prime NSW territory, surely he must have known that there wasn’t any males present near the Sand River Pride due to no communication. The only thing I can think off is that the Avoca males went into KNP like we all know but instead headed up North thru KNP so when he come back into Sabi Sands the first territory he come across was the Kambulas.
Meanwhile the Nkhulus simply have no idea what is going on and still believe both Southern Avocas are there. Which they arent confident enough to confront yet.
So the pride is left abandoned for now. With neither coalitions brave enough to join them.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tylermartin! - 09-02-2023
(09-02-2023, 12:47 PM)KM600 Wrote:(09-02-2023, 12:10 PM)I’m Duco Ndona Wrote: The Avocas lost their resolve and abandoned the pride. Not willing to actually wait for the Nkhulus to begin their push and beat them up or kill them for the pride.This could be a reason fs but it still wouldn’t make sense why the remaining Southern Avoca in SS would venture into prime NSW territory, surely he must have known that there wasn’t any males present near the Sand River Pride due to no communication. The only thing I can think off is that the Avoca males went into KNP like we all know but instead headed up North thru KNP so when he come back into Sabi Sands the first territory he come across was the Kambulas.
Meanwhile the Nkhulus simply have no idea what is going on and still believe both Southern Avocas are there. Which they arent confident enough to confront yet.
So the pride is left abandoned for now. With neither coalitions brave enough to join them.
Technically if it’s southeastern mala mala then that is southern avoca territory so he went back to his territory but further north as they don’t go to mala mala often so why so often now?
RE: Avoca male lions - Duco Ndona - 09-03-2023
I think he is just allowing himself to run ahead of the current dynamics a bit. They havent taken over yet, but probably will so in the next weeks.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tonpa - 09-04-2023
RE: Avoca male lions - Gavskrr - 09-04-2023
For the time that has passed and no sign of the brother I hope I am wrong, I think this guy is one more for the number of males now alone in the sands sabi which is quite sad, both he and the mohawk were very attached to their brothers , a thread of hope? He could be Nkuhuma's long-awaited coalition partner, would that be ideal? maybe not, there are lone younger males but none of them seem friendly to Nkuhuma, together they might have a good chance with the talamati pride perhaps.
RE: Avoca male lions - BigLion39 - 09-04-2023
(09-02-2023, 08:35 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Tr1x24 IIRC it was confirmed they were mating with Hamilton pride, even the location looked very similar. Though I think I remember word that they were later seen close to their territory, but not photos or videos, nor will I remember now if the info was reliable.
I thought it was not confirmed and the timing could be off on when they were with Hamilton pride? Juat what I might have read somewhere. Maybe its totally wrong? Was it actually confirmed true?
RE: Avoca male lions - KM600 - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 11:51 AM)Gavskrr Wrote: For the time that has passed and no sign of the brother I hope I am wrong, I think this guy is one more for the number of males now alone in the sands sabi which is quite sad, both he and the mohawk were very attached to their brothers , a thread of hope? He could be Nkuhuma's long-awaited coalition partner, would that be ideal? maybe not, there are lone younger males but none of them seem friendly to Nkuhuma, together they might have a good chance with the talamati pride perhaps.Very much doubt it, a male as aggressive as the remaining Southern Avoca needs a male who can match him physically, otherwise the Nkuhuma male is quite literally gonna get bullied over kills, mating rights etc and most likely end up leaving himself and that’s even if the Southern Avoca accepted him instead of attacking him instantly.
RE: Avoca male lions - criollo2mil - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 12:16 PM)KM600 Wrote:(09-04-2023, 11:51 AM)Gavskrr Wrote: For the time that has passed and no sign of the brother I hope I am wrong, I think this guy is one more for the number of males now alone in the sands sabi which is quite sad, both he and the mohawk were very attached to their brothers , a thread of hope? He could be Nkuhuma's long-awaited coalition partner, would that be ideal? maybe not, there are lone younger males but none of them seem friendly to Nkuhuma, together they might have a good chance with the talamati pride perhaps.Very much doubt it, a male as aggressive as the remaining Southern Avoca needs a male who can match him physically, otherwise the Nkuhuma male is quite literally gonna get bullied over kills, mating rights etc and most likely end up leaving himself and that’s even if the Southern Avoca accepted him instead of attacking him instantly.
Aggression and dominance is largely influenced by circumstances so there’s no guarantees that Lions will behave the same under different circumstances.
Look at the Tintswalos and how their totem pole has fluctuated depending on health and fitness.
The S Avoca could very well choose to be submissive at the benefit of having conpnioship.
Just saying!
RE: Avoca male lions - KM600 - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 04:54 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:Submissive to Nkuhuma, the same male that run away from the two Talamati young males? Let’s be real Nkuhuma prolly runs away from him the second they see each other. The S Avoca may pursue the relationship without knowing any of the other nomads in the area but if he’s aware of the young Talamati males, young Kambula males etc and even that’s a stretch then there’s no reason for him to side with Nkuhuma.(09-04-2023, 12:16 PM)KM600 Wrote:(09-04-2023, 11:51 AM)Gavskrr Wrote: For the time that has passed and no sign of the brother I hope I am wrong, I think this guy is one more for the number of males now alone in the sands sabi which is quite sad, both he and the mohawk were very attached to their brothers , a thread of hope? He could be Nkuhuma's long-awaited coalition partner, would that be ideal? maybe not, there are lone younger males but none of them seem friendly to Nkuhuma, together they might have a good chance with the talamati pride perhaps.Very much doubt it, a male as aggressive as the remaining Southern Avoca needs a male who can match him physically, otherwise the Nkuhuma male is quite literally gonna get bullied over kills, mating rights etc and most likely end up leaving himself and that’s even if the Southern Avoca accepted him instead of attacking him instantly.
Aggression and dominance is largely influenced by circumstances so there’s no guarantees that Lions will behave the same under different circumstances.
Look at the Tintswalos and how their totem pole has fluctuated depending on health and fitness.
The S Avoca could very well choose to be submissive at the benefit of having conpnioship.
Just saying!
RE: Avoca male lions - Horizon - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 11:16 AM)Tonpa Wrote:
He is full of bite marks. Pic/video before showed his left side only and didn't show the extent of his injuries.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 12:16 PM)KM600 Wrote: Very much doubt it, a male as aggressive as the remaining Southern Avoca needs a male who can match him physically, otherwise the Nkuhuma male is quite literally gonna get bullied over kills, mating rights etc and most likely end up leaving himself and that’s even if the Southern Avoca accepted him instead of attacking him instantly.
How do you know how agressive this S.Avocas is? We have very little info about S.Avocas characters, let alone how would they behave as solo nomads.
For what we know, this S.Avoca was less dominant then his brother.
Cant match him physically? Based of what exactly?
RE: Avoca male lions - KM600 - 09-04-2023
(09-04-2023, 07:42 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:They hold/held territory in both KNP and SS, as far as I know they didn’t just inherit this territory like the N.Avocas had done with the Talamati and Nkuhuma Prides. No matter how the situation may have ended against the Nkhulu males and Dreadlocks they held them off for much longer than expected and when they caught them together it was said the Nkhulu males left Dreadlocks to get severely injured, it was even reported his back leg was broken and death was imminent at first. Ur right very little info is known about them, but u don’t get a duo this successful and dominant with one completely inferior male especially due to the fact they would have been outnumbered for the majority of their lives. Reason I said Nkuhuma couldn’t match him physically is because Skorro Jr was known to dominate him constantly whether it was females or food during the short time of their partnership, if u can even call it that, was also the reason ppl have claimed it didn’t work out for either male. U got to remember this Avoca has been a pride male for however many years he most likely won’t have the mentality of a nomadic male, yet, don’t be surprised if there’s videos of him chasing off other lions that he could instead form a partnership with, for all we know he still thinks his brother is alive.(09-04-2023, 12:16 PM)KM600 Wrote: Very much doubt it, a male as aggressive as the remaining Southern Avoca needs a male who can match him physically, otherwise the Nkuhuma male is quite literally gonna get bullied over kills, mating rights etc and most likely end up leaving himself and that’s even if the Southern Avoca accepted him instead of attacking him instantly.
How do you know how agressive this S.Avocas is? We have very little info about S.Avocas characters, let alone how would they behave as solo nomads.
For what we know, this S.Avoca was less dominant then his brother.
Cant match him physically? Based of what exactly?