(08-24-2023, 03:11 AM)BA0701 Wrote: How long were the Mlowathis off in the east? Mr. T was accepted back into the fold after that extended separation.

(08-24-2023, 03:11 AM)BA0701 Wrote: How long were the Mlowathis off in the east? Mr. T was accepted back into the fold after that extended separation.

(08-24-2023, 03:18 AM)KM600 Wrote:

(08-24-2023, 03:11 AM)BA0701 Wrote: How long were the Mlowathis off in the east? Mr. T was accepted back into the fold after that extended separation.

2008 - 2010

(08-24-2023, 02:55 AM)KM600 Wrote:

(08-24-2023, 02:41 AM)Gavskrr Wrote: It was disclosed in a group, information coming from a forest ranger, that the injuries to the southern avocado came from a possible confrontation with kambulas over buffalo carcass. Your brother hasn't been seen around. It must be the first time I've seen southern avocas separated like this, considering there weren't that many sightings. This is worrying and a very bad sign.

Out of all the possible scenarios, this doesn’t seem as bad as you’d think. Very unlikely that the other Southern Avoca was seriously injured over the right to a carcass. I’ve seen cubs get fatally wounded when two prides have been on the same kill, but I’ve never seen such interactions between males. Normally, they’ll just do as much damage as need be in order to control the kill, after that they don’t much care for the other males. They prioritise food over fighting and finishing their opponents.

(08-24-2023, 03:37 AM)Gavskrr Wrote:

(08-24-2023, 02:55 AM)KM600 Wrote:

(08-24-2023, 02:41 AM)Gavskrr Wrote: It was disclosed in a group, information coming from a forest ranger, that the injuries to the southern avocado came from a possible confrontation with kambulas over buffalo carcass. Your brother hasn't been seen around. It must be the first time I've seen southern avocas separated like this, considering there weren't that many sightings. This is worrying and a very bad sign.

Out of all the possible scenarios, this doesn’t seem as bad as you’d think. Very unlikely that the other Southern Avoca was seriously injured over the right to a carcass. I’ve seen cubs get fatally wounded when two prides have been on the same kill, but I’ve never seen such interactions between males. Normally, they’ll just do as much damage as need be in order to control the kill, after that they don’t much care for the other males. They prioritise food over fighting and finishing their opponents.

in fact I highly doubt that the missing male was involved in this event, according to the ranger's report he was not seen nearby, apparently they have not been seen together for a week. So looking at this scenario I would say that something happened a  time ago and that led the male avoca to wander alone and end up bumping into kambulas that inflicted these injuries on him.

(08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.

They are nothing but rivals at this point, and if they somehow link as nomads, it would be purely based of a "chance" as any other unrelated males.

We love those "bloodline" ,"long lost brothers" stories, but that doesnt work like that in reality.

With lions, if you are not part of the same group, you are rivals, regardless of you connection in the past and blood, especially as time passes.

Mhangenis kiled her own aunt, who raised them, only 1,2 years after their link broked, Kambulas almost killed their Mhangeni mother in similar fashion and theres many more examples.

Let alone lions who didnt interact for 5+ yrs.

(08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.

They are nothing but rivals at this point, and if they somehow link as nomads, it would be purely based of a "chance" as any other unrelated males.

We love those "bloodline" ,"long lost brothers" stories, but that doesnt work like that in reality.

With lions, if you are not part of the same group, you are rivals, regardless of you connection in the past and blood, especially as time passes.

Mhangenis kiled her own aunt, who raised them, only 1,2 years after their link broked, Kambulas almost killed their Mhangeni mother in similar fashion and theres many more examples.

Let alone lions who didnt interact for 5+ yrs.

(08-24-2023, 04:38 AM)afortich Wrote: Attacking and killing their parents/relatives do not prove that they have no memory or remember them.
One thing is the memory or capability of remembering, and another thing is competition and the savage nature of the lions. It is like saying that the person who killed any or all of his/her parent has no memory or don't remember after not seen them in 20 years.

We cannot measure their capability of recognizing/remembering/memory. How would you know if the lion that killed his father didn't remember him??

(08-24-2023, 04:37 AM)Tylermartin! Wrote:

(08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.

They are nothing but rivals at this point, and if they somehow link as nomads, it would be purely based of a "chance" as any other unrelated males.

We love those "bloodline" ,"long lost brothers" stories, but that doesnt work like that in reality.

With lions, if you are not part of the same group, you are rivals, regardless of you connection in the past and blood, especially as time passes.

Mhangenis kiled her own aunt, who raised them, only 1,2 years after their link broked, Kambulas almost killed their Mhangeni mother in similar fashion and theres many more examples.

Let alone lions who didnt interact for 5+ yrs.

Different situations those females had new cubs to protect get out of our territory or you’ll be killed BUT also interesting why didn’t the othawa male attack his natal pride when the he and the mhangenis attacked the othawas he didn’t hurt any of them he must’ve remembered them right and nobody can say what Mohawk will do if he sees his southern brother we do not know you do not know I do not know all I know is these lions do I fact have memories they remember things why did skorro jr go back to manyleti where he was born and he hadn’t been back there in 3 years or so he must’ve remembered. But who do not know what will happen shoot if Mohawk sees him from his recent track record he should run from him he ran from S8 right?

(08-24-2023, 04:38 AM)afortich Wrote: Attacking and killing their parents/relatives do not prove that they have no memory or remember them.
One thing is the memory or capability of remembering, and another thing is competition and the savage nature of the lions. It is like saying that the person who killed any or all of his/her parent has no memory or don't remember after not seen them in 20 years.

We cannot measure their capability of recognizing/remembering/memory. How would you know if the lion that killed his father didn't remember him??

(08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.

They are nothing but rivals at this point, and if they somehow link as nomads, it would be purely based of a "chance" as any other unrelated males.

We love those "bloodline" ,"long lost brothers" stories, but that doesnt work like that in reality.

With lions, if you are not part of the same group, you are rivals, regardless of you connection in the past and blood, especially as time passes.

Mhangenis kiled her own aunt, who raised them, only 1,2 years after their link broked, Kambulas almost killed their Mhangeni mother in similar fashion and theres many more examples.

Let alone lions who didnt interact for 5+ yrs.

(08-24-2023, 05:11 AM)WildLeonis Wrote:

(08-24-2023, 04:38 AM)afortich Wrote: Attacking and killing their parents/relatives do not prove that they have no memory or remember them.
One thing is the memory or capability of remembering, and another thing is competition and the savage nature of the lions. It is like saying that the person who killed any or all of his/her parent has no memory or don't remember after not seen them in 20 years.

We cannot measure their capability of recognizing/remembering/memory. How would you know if the lion that killed his father didn't remember him??

Good point. I think some may be viewing memory through the lens of humans. Though you just made a comparison to humans yourself. :) But I digress. My point just because a lion may remember a littermate ie a sister or brother (or parent) that doesn’t mean they will give that “family” member a pass because they are family. Depending on the situation they could respond as strongly as attacking and killing the former family member or they could give a warning but not initiate a full on attack. 

There is footage of lions recognizing their human companions after years of separation. So I think it’s very possible that the S.Avocas and Mohawk would recognize each other after years of no contact. However, that doesn’t mean a meeting would be drama free or be disastrous. Again, I think it would depend on the circumstances.