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+----- Thread: Tiger Predation (/topic-tiger-predation)
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RE: Tiger Predation - Apex Titan - 11-07-2024
(11-07-2024, 02:01 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Apex Titan :
OK, if you told that tigers are able to prey on saltwater crocs regularly, I admit it... Before knowing you, I considered that a tiger couldn't every time win against a bear weighing two times more heavy. I considered a big male bear as being a rival for the felid, not a prey. But the Serguei Aramilev's account and video changed my opinion.
And even if a part of me stays reluctant to an absolute super predator's existence.
And sorry @"WildWarlord" for having been too "ironic".
You said "and video"... Which video are you referring to, Aramilev's video or the recent video of the male tiger 'Odyr' who hunted and killed a large male brown bear?
RE: Tiger Predation - WildWarlord - 11-07-2024
BREAKING NEWS:
TIGER KILLS SUBADULT ASIAN ELEPHANT:
Post mortem examination confirms that Elephant was killed by the tiger. This incident occured on November 7th, 2024 in Malappuram.
https://www.manoramaonline.com/district-news/malappuram/2024/11/07/tiger-kills-wild-elephant-edakkara.html
@Apex Titan
RE: Tiger Predation - Spalea - 11-08-2024
@Apex Titan :
You asked: " You said "and video"... Which video are you referring to, Aramilev's video or the recent video of the male tiger 'Odyr' who hunted and killed a large male brown bear? "
It seems it was this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE6-l3UL0TI
But, since the time, I don't know for sure. I believe me reminding that it was asked to Aramilev this question "Where is the clear winner between an adult male brown bear and a tiger", the answers was something like this "From the moment where you can find some remains of bear's bone in the tiger's feces, the answer is clear: the tiger".
RE: Tiger Predation - Apex Titan - 11-08-2024
(11-08-2024, 04:00 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Apex Titan :
You asked: " You said "and video"... Which video are you referring to, Aramilev's video or the recent video of the male tiger 'Odyr' who hunted and killed a large male brown bear? "
It seems it was this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE6-l3UL0TI
But, since the time, I don't know for sure. I believe me reminding that it was asked to Aramilev this question "Where is the clear winner between an adult male brown bear and a tiger", the answers was something like this "From the moment where you can find some remains of bear's bone in the tiger's feces, the answer is clear: the tiger".
Here's the original video of Sergei Aramilev's interview.
At 9:03, Aramilev says (referring to tigers vs large male brown bears): "Therefore, an adult male tiger will always kill any bear. But a female or young tiger can lose to a large male (brown) bear."
As for the bear remains in tiger feces, that was mentioned in the interview with Pavel Fomenko, who's a field biologist, scientist, ranger and leading expert.
At 8:25 in the video, the reporter asks Pavel Fomenko, who is stronger, a tiger or a bear?
Fomenko states: "Judging by the fact that I quite often find bear claws in tiger excrement, here is your answer to who is stronger."
Here's the video of the male tiger "Odyr" who hunted, fought, and killed a large, impressive sized male brown bear with a palm callus width of 18 cm:
When Yuri Kya sees the killed adult male brown bear carcass, he says: "Impressive bear":
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Tiger Predation - Apex Titan - 11-08-2024
(11-07-2024, 10:18 PM)WildWarlord Wrote: BREAKING NEWS:
TIGER KILLS SUBADULT ASIAN ELEPHANT:
Post mortem examination confirms that Elephant was killed by the tiger. This incident occured on November 7th, 2024 in Malappuram.
https://www.manoramaonline.com/district-news/malappuram/2024/11/07/tiger-kills-wild-elephant-edakkara.html
@Apex Titan
Fascinating account. Great find. More and more impressive tiger killing feats keep coming out. Back in 2022, an adult rhino was also killed by a tiger in Chitwan.
This was a young adult elephant killed by the tiger, not a sub-adult. The elephant was estimated to be around 20 years old, that's a young adult which is independent:
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://www.manoramaonline.com/district-news/malappuram/2024/11/07/tiger-kills-wild-elephant-edakkara.html
Aging Elephants
Sub-adult elephants = 5 - 15 years old, and young adult elephant = 15 - 25 years old:
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://umbabat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Elephant-Aging-Criteria.pdf
Although a very impressive killing feat, I feel very sorry for the elephant. Poor thing was badly mauled and killed. Sad to see:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Tiger Predation - Spalea - 11-08-2024
@Apex Titan :
Yes, it was this short video. As for the sentence bear's claws in the tiger's excrement, I was wrong, confusing Serguei Aramiley with Pavel Fomenko. Sorry !
After having checked it, the yours is longer and more complete that mine:
But I would like to ask you a question: if the Amour tiger can be considered as being the only one apex predator targeting even the big male brown bear as preys, these latters should be much more numerous in the same biotop, shouldn't it ? Is there indeed the case ?
RE: Tiger Predation - GreenGrolar - 11-09-2024
RE: Tiger Predation - Apex Titan - 11-11-2024
(11-08-2024, 08:02 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Apex Titan :
Yes, it was this short video. As for the sentence bear's claws in the tiger's excrement, I was wrong, confusing Serguei Aramiley with Pavel Fomenko. Sorry !
After having checked it, the yours is longer and more complete that mine:
But I would like to ask you a question: if the Amour tiger can be considered as being the only one apex predator targeting even the big male brown bear as preys, these latters should be much more numerous in the same biotop, shouldn't it ? Is there indeed the case ?
Yes, it is indeed the case. The Amur tiger is widely acknowledged and regarded by all biologists, zoologists, rangers, hunters, locals, and natives, as the undisputed apex predator of the Ussuri taiga and bears are common prey for them. Adult brown bears are scientifically classified as a prey species of tigers. In the Amur-Ussuri taiga biotope, there are thousands of bears and their populations significantly outnumber the Amur tiger population. So bears are plentiful for tigers to hunt. Bears are a very important seasonal prey for tigers.
Interestingly, modern scientific studies and recent accounts show that the vast majority of bears hunted and killed by tigers, are adult bears. So tigers primarily target adult bears, and this makes sense, because tigers prefer large prey, and adult bears are large animals which provide the tiger with plenty of meat for 5 - 10 days.
According to biologist Kucherenko's numerous observations, he personally found multiple cases of large brown bears (weighing 200 - 300 kg) killed and eaten by tigers. The tigers lived near these large bear kills for 8 - 10 days until they consumed the bear.
Especially in the summer and autumn months (when non-hibernating bears are accessible for tigers to hunt), male Amur tigers in particular, actively prey on both black and brown bears. Recent cases also confirm that some juvenile tigers and tigresses are quite active bear-hunters too. By regularly hunting bears, Amur tigers regulate the populations of both black and brown bears in the Ussuri regions. In 2022 in the Khabarovsk Krai, the population of bears in the taiga significantly decreased due to tigers.
Olga Krasnykh, who works and lives in the Primorye region, also said that tigers reduce the population of brown bears. In the Sikhote-Alin, tiger predation is the main natural cause of brown bear mortality. So this is the Amur tigers' dominance as the sole apex predator of the Amur-Ussuri taiga biotope. This is why there are much more brown bears living in the Kamchatka peninsula and Sakhalin Island where there are no tigers, compared to Ussuri brown bears living in tiger territories (Primorye & Khabarovsk), because the former subspecies don't have a natural predator, unlike the latter Ussuri subspecies.
The food-chain and ecological pyramid of the Amur-Ussuri taiga: (I never made this food-chain diagram)
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Tiger Predation - Spalea - 11-12-2024
@Apex Titan :
Thank you for having answered !
I asked this question because it was common sense pretending that brown bears were also predators, sharing with tigers big preys like deers, boars and so on. In this case, two dominant predators sharing the same biotop, adding the fact that they are both solitary, thus their number, having not to evolve, should be staying enough low (because we would face two huge predators). But if the tiger is the only one apex predator of the taiga since a very long time, the brown bears being a prey like the others (and more, as you told a very advantageous prey being able to be targeted in priority by the tiger), we can conclude that the brown bears in a same biotop, were originally much more numerous than the tigers.
The wolves neither cannot share the same biotop with the Amour tiger. Facing the striped felid they become much more rare.
Joke question: is the Amur tiger too voracious ?