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+----- Thread: Bear Strength (/topic-bear-strength)
RE: Tigers and Brown bears - who are really stronger. - Panther - 01-01-2019
Muscle Fiber Characteristics of Competitive Power Lifters
"MHC I being the slowest to contract and MHC IIb being the fastest. With this being the case, it is sometimes suggested that type IIB fibers are desirable for strength and power. However, current literature suggests that these fibers convert to type IIA regardless of what type of physical activity they are
engaged in (4, 10, 14, 38, 39, 40).
Previous investigations of competitive lifters (i.e.,
power lifters and Olympic-style weightlifters) have determined that 53–60% of the muscle fibers in the vastus lateralis are type II, which are sometimes referred to as fast twitch (18–20). Among untrained men, fiber-type percentages are not always related to physical performances (26, 28), which is not unreasonable since many physical performance tasks require contribu-
tions from a large number of physiological systems
and are not dependent on just fiber-type percentages.
On the other hand, isokinetic strength has been suc-
cessfully used as a predictor of fast- and slow-twitch
fiber percentages (45). What may be more important
are the actual cross-sectional areas of each of the major
fiber types. In men, type II fibers typically comprise a
larger cross-sectional area (38). When competitive lifters have been studied, the areas of type II fibers are approximately 8,000 mm2, whereas type I fibers are approximately 5,000 mm2 (10, 42–44). It has been suggested that competitive strength performances may be positively affected when the cross-sectional areas of type II fibers equals 60–90% (25). This investigation
will determine if such a relationship is present. It is
hypothesized that the unique training characteristics
of power lifters will produce distinct differences in the physiological characteristics of skeletal muscle when compared with not only untrained subjects, but also
to strength athletes in other sports."
"The PL exhibited a greater percentage of MHC IIa compared with CON, although the percentage of MHC IIb was not significantly different. The PL exhibited a similar percentage of MHC IIa as that of
weightlifters but a much larger percentage of MHC IIb (male weightlifters, X¯ 6 SE; MHC IIa 5 64.0 6 2.3%; MHC IIb 5 1.4 6 1.4%; 14). Such differences could be due to the functional requirements of the respective sports, or due to the training status of the subjects at the time of the biopsy. "
Source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.luzimarteixeira.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/tipo-de-fibra03.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzh-zs8srfAhUFb30KHf5vBYYQFjADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2EU0I3tGMfUMTSvPQGytAG&cshid=1546287925998
RE: Tigers and Brown bears - who are really stronger. - Rishi - 01-01-2019
@Spalea Stop.
@Panther Just report them... Don't keep replying.
Thread closed till it's 2nd January at Hawii Isles. Cool your heads.
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-01-2019
I write this a little bit what comes to overall discussion about strength of animals. I mean we often can read, how tigers, lions and bears carry or drag "enormous" animals here and there just like nothing. Then when we see some footage, it is often like this. Not so big animal, even leafs under it to make less friction, and result.... a lot of effort and only a few meters before giving up. Of course here we see distraction to maybe make this tiger to stop fast, but that dragging wasn´t easy. Far from it.
I remember one footage about lion and headline something like "lion drags a huge carcass", then in footage was a half eaten buffalo with no internal organs
I have started to wonder, that how much some researchers are exaggerating their observations overall, concerning all animals, not just bears, tigers and lions what comes to testimonies how they drag/carry away big carcasses just like that. Or maybe we would need to know more, that what is big to different people? There are some quite impressive performances, but I find it hard to believe, that these animals would drag some moose or buffalo easily more than 10-50 meters. Bear should have more endurance to go somewhat further, but dragging a moose is not simple, when it is dead.
Here this video, dragging starts from 0:35:
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-01-2019
I answer to myself, here is also reasonable sized carcass, maybe some terrain help with possibly a lot of small stones rolling under carcass. But still here we can see animal dragging some distance and I have to admit, that showing impressive strength. Pity that this kind of footage is often cut so, that very hard to see how long time and what distance. But also here we can see, that it is not a sunday walk in a park when dragging an animal which is bigger than the one dragging it.
I put this here too, because if we are talking about bear strength, one part of it is always comparisons too :)
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-01-2019
And here a bear again. Bear is not small, but that moose calf is also not the smallest one.
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-01-2019
Here one more, this time tiger. Uphill so not the easiest task.
Here another one and this goes smoother, when even platform.
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-01-2019
And here then a bear with quite big moose and some dragging before starting to eat. Moose is still alive when video begins, just if someone is sensitive.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 01-05-2019
(05-28-2016, 04:42 AM)brotherbear Wrote: The Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.
Bears possess enormous strength, regardless of species or size. The strength of a bear is difficult to measure, but observations alone ( bears moving rocks, carrying animal carcasses, removing large logs from the side of a cabin, and digging cavernous holes ) are indicative of incredible power.
A study team at Montana State University in Bozeman, Montana, found that a grizzly bear could treat a 700-pound dumpster like a beach ball, while it took a minimum of two persons just to tip the dumpster. The team concluded the strength of a calm grizzly bear is two-and-a-half times that of a human.
No animal of equal size is as powerful. A bear may kill a moose, an elk, or a deer by a single blow to the neck with a powerful foreleg, then lift the carcass in its mouth and carry it for great distances. "The strength ... is in keeping with his size," describes Ben East in 'Bears'. "He is very powerfully built, a heavy skeleton overlaid with thick layers of muscle as strong as rawhide rope. He can hook his long, grizzly-like front claws under a slab of rock that three grown men could not lift, and flip it over effortlessly... A brown bear took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
Strength and power are not only attributes of large bears, but also of the young. The author observed a yearling American black bear searching for insects turn over a flat-shaped rock that was between 310 and 325 pounds "backhanded" with a foreleg. The bear was captured the following day in a management action and was found to weigh only 120 pounds
... A brown bear took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-05-2019
(01-05-2019, 05:27 PM)brotherbear Wrote:When comparing videos about black bears flipping rocks on videos, I have to say, that 120 pound cub with over 300 lbs rocks would have big balance difficulties even if able to flip a rock. About brown bears is told to be observations, that cubs are able to turn rocks up to 140 kg, which is about 310 lbs. But in that source, even though it is from zoologist with doctoral degree, there is no description about cub size or how easily doing that.(05-28-2016, 04:42 AM)brotherbear Wrote: The Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.
Bears possess enormous strength, regardless of species or size. The strength of a bear is difficult to measure, but observations alone ( bears moving rocks, carrying animal carcasses, removing large logs from the side of a cabin, and digging cavernous holes ) are indicative of incredible power.
A study team at Montana State University in Bozeman, Montana, found that a grizzly bear could treat a 700-pound dumpster like a beach ball, while it took a minimum of two persons just to tip the dumpster. The team concluded the strength of a calm grizzly bear is two-and-a-half times that of a human.
No animal of equal size is as powerful. A bear may kill a moose, an elk, or a deer by a single blow to the neck with a powerful foreleg, then lift the carcass in its mouth and carry it for great distances. "The strength ... is in keeping with his size," describes Ben East in 'Bears'. "He is very powerfully built, a heavy skeleton overlaid with thick layers of muscle as strong as rawhide rope. He can hook his long, grizzly-like front claws under a slab of rock that three grown men could not lift, and flip it over effortlessly... A brown bear took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
Strength and power are not only attributes of large bears, but also of the young. The author observed a yearling American black bear searching for insects turn over a flat-shaped rock that was between 310 and 325 pounds "backhanded" with a foreleg. The bear was captured the following day in a management action and was found to weigh only 120 pounds
... A brown bear took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
But with bears there is some need to be careful too, that not taking for granted everything what is printed. For instance that "moose decapitation" myth, which is mentioned time to time in some places. If someone wants to waste time, just try to find something proving it
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 01-05-2019
(01-05-2019, 11:43 PM)Shadow Wrote:(01-05-2019, 05:27 PM)brotherbear Wrote:When comparing videos about black bears flipping rocks on videos, I have to say, that 120 pound cub with over 300 lbs rocks would have big balance difficulties even if able to flip a rock. About brown bears is told to be observations, that cubs are able to turn rocks up to 140 kg, which is about 310 lbs. But in that source, even though it is from zoologist with doctoral degree, there is no description about cub size or how easily doing that.(05-28-2016, 04:42 AM)brotherbear Wrote: The Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.
Bears possess enormous strength, regardless of species or size. The strength of a bear is difficult to measure, but observations alone ( bears moving rocks, carrying animal carcasses, removing large logs from the side of a cabin, and digging cavernous holes ) are indicative of incredible power.
A study team at Montana State University in Bozeman, Montana, found that a grizzly bear could treat a 700-pound dumpster like a beach ball, while it took a minimum of two persons just to tip the dumpster. The team concluded the strength of a calm grizzly bear is two-and-a-half times that of a human.
No animal of equal size is as powerful. A bear may kill a moose, an elk, or a deer by a single blow to the neck with a powerful foreleg, then lift the carcass in its mouth and carry it for great distances. "The strength ... is in keeping with his size," describes Ben East in 'Bears'. "He is very powerfully built, a heavy skeleton overlaid with thick layers of muscle as strong as rawhide rope. He can hook his long, grizzly-like front claws under a slab of rock that three grown men could not lift, and flip it over effortlessly... A brown bear took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
Strength and power are not only attributes of large bears, but also of the young. The author observed a yearling American black bear searching for insects turn over a flat-shaped rock that was between 310 and 325 pounds "backhanded" with a foreleg. The bear was captured the following day in a management action and was found to weigh only 120 pounds
... A brown bear took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
But with bears there is some need to be careful too, that not taking for granted everything what is printed. For instance that "moose decapitation" myth, which is mentioned time to time in some places. If someone wants to waste time, just try to find something proving it
I agree 100%. It seems that many of our old-school experts enjoyed telling tale tales. No, I do not believe that a big grizzly can knock the head off of a moose. But, I do believe that he might crack a skull or knock a large herbivore senseless on occasion.
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-07-2019
From 1:46 there is some footage about two bears, which I had not seen before, maybe new for someone else too who is interested to see when bears fight. Before that from 0:54 there is one case, where bear drags reasonable sized prey off from road.
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-25-2019
I put this link here too. It looks quite interesting, even though polar bear and brown bear have very good bite strengths in reality, when looking at relative bite strength compared to size, giant panda and sun bear are in their own category :)
http://www.academia.edu/239888/Bite_forces_and_evolutionary_adaptations_to_feeding_ecology_in_carnivores_Ecology_
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 01-26-2019
(01-25-2019, 05:48 PM)Shadow Wrote: I put this link here too. It looks quite interesting, even though polar bear and brown bear have very good bite strengths in reality, when looking at relative bite strength compared to size, giant panda and sun bear are in their own category :)
http://www.academia.edu/239888/Bite_forces_and_evolutionary_adaptations_to_feeding_ecology_in_carnivores_Ecology_
How would you list them in order? I have no problem in saying that I am clueless when looking at this chart.
RE: Bear Strength - Shadow - 01-26-2019
(01-26-2019, 01:15 PM)brotherbear Wrote:(01-25-2019, 05:48 PM)Shadow Wrote: I put this link here too. It looks quite interesting, even though polar bear and brown bear have very good bite strengths in reality, when looking at relative bite strength compared to size, giant panda and sun bear are in their own category :)
http://www.academia.edu/239888/Bite_forces_and_evolutionary_adaptations_to_feeding_ecology_in_carnivores_Ecology_
How would you list them in order? I have no problem in saying that I am clueless when looking at this chart.
I rewrite, my first answer was sloppy.
So first BM is weight of an animal. BF ca looks like to be niting force with canines and then BF carn "inside" in mouth, like when getting a real good bite and for instance crashing bones of carcass.
BFQ ca and BFQ carn gives pound to pound relative strength, higher number is better there.
So polar bear, tiger, brown bear and lion seem to be top 4, with brown bear and lion there is interesting, that brown bear has stronger force with canines and lion in that other figure.
Jaguar is interesting also, not quite there where people are used to see it. I mean tiger and lion beat it also in relative strength figures.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 01-26-2019
For several years now, I have found strongly conflicting assessments of the polar bears bite force. Some give the polar bear a very strong bite-force while others a very low bite-force. Two extremes. According to this testing, if I'm understanding correctly, the polar bear has a more powerful bite-force than a brown bear of similar size.