(05-22-2020, 10:05 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-22-2020, 10:01 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:

(05-22-2020, 09:48 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-22-2020, 09:13 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:

(05-22-2020, 07:11 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-22-2020, 06:24 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: OncaAtrox

(05-22-2020, 05:26 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:

(05-22-2020, 05:13 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-22-2020, 05:00 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: Yapu Pantanal male 110kg

Onças do Rio Negro

year of post: 2018


https://www.facebook.com/oncasdorionegro/posts/1983305481691546

''Photos of Yapu's first capture. A huge male weighing 110kgs. It's impressive the size of the Pantanal males.''



Look at those shoulders of Yapu.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Massive Head

*This image is copyright of its original author

I think Yapu was captured other times.

He must be way above that weight now, he's got an impressive build. Btw, do you have any more info on Matheus male? Last time he was weighed he was 134 kg, little is known about him.

Yeah Matheus is a hell of a beast, Unfortunatelly I don't know if he was captured once again and even if he was, it also takes the projects to reveal his weight to the public as well.

About Matheus life the only thing I know is that he took over the territory that used to be ruled by the deceased 130kg Sossego male in southern Pantanal around Fazenda Barranco Alto. Sossego was poached shot to death with bullets fractures into his skull ( one more beast lost to the poachers ). Thus letting his territory vacant which led Matheus male to take it over.


130kg Deceased  Majestic Sossego male

*This image is copyright of its original author

@OncaAtrox

Not only those 2 were on the 130's I am sure Colombiano is way far above that range, Macho A like you said is propably near that range too and don't forget the brothers Oreia and Grandão which both are quite robust with Grandão being the larger one as his name already says ( the big one in portuguese ).

About Colombiano in that area yeah he was but south Pantanal is massive, these areas are huge. areas like Delta do Salobra got different males ( I know 2, Prainha and Neo males ) and also to the entrance of Pantanal Cáceres as you saw in the jaguars of brazil thread, that area is very near to urban area with only a lake separating them and is very unusual to see jaguars there. One male was surprisingly recently seen there, maybe that male got pushed all the way to Cárceres due to the tough competition in the central areas. So these males range a huge territory.

One example by the radio collar map Footages of the Cerrado jaguars shown by Leandro you can see that there's a moment when Rogério cerrado male left his area to find Ariane cerrado female, then Tiago cerrado male ventured into Rogério's territory while he was absent for a while  then Tiago left.

I am sure with Pantanal jaguars is no different, sometimes one male is just checking up the others territory then leaves after picking up the scent of that lands ruler. back in the years when Sossego was alive he was seen in that area more common and sired cubs there with Jeffa large female and others.



Sossego relaxing at Barranco Alto farm.

you understand portuguese here's the sad news of Sossego's death. found floating on the black river without his collar.

I was thinking of doing a comprehensive list of jaguar weights provided by Oncafari and Oncas do Rio Negro (my keyboard is in English don't mind the c), to update the weights from Almeida that people always go back to get information on the average Pantanal jaguar, your knowledge and help o this would be greatly appreciated. Here are the following weights from Oncafari based on 9 males captured:

107 - Apache
120 - Brutus
138 - Felino
106,3 - Pirata
131,06 - Shaka
120 - Sombra
110 - Ziko
120 - Juru
130 - Adriano (not sure if he is tracked by Oncafari though)

Not sure if I'm missing more captured males that you can add to the list.
Based on those initial 9 males the average is 120,26 kg. Way above the supposedly 99 kg by Almeida, although his sample comprised of 24 individuals so we'll need more data to properly challenge the Almeida average. In this list I didn't include the Oncas do Rio Negro data because I'm not the most update with it.

Juru and Adriano are males from northern Pantanal though.

Sombra male on his last capture in December last year weighed 122kg. Check the link bellow.

https://oncafari.org/2020/01/05/campanha-de-capturas-de-dezembro-conheca-as-novas-oncas-pintadas-monitoradas-pelo-oncafari/

That 120kg of Sombra male was on his prior capture in 2017. They didn't update their webpage. So let's stick with the 122kg for Sombra.

Add on your list Brazuca male 112kg and Nati male 110kg both southern pantanal males whom were collared by Onçafari project but both males didn't habituated for that long in the Caiman Ecological Refuge being monitored just out of the border probably because of the arrival of Xavier male which gave tough times to the males of the area. Xavier was no joke during his prime and its a shame he wasn't weighed.

Four more males to be added on your list are the misterious pantanal males we discussed in the jaguars of Brazil thread confirmed to be one of 130kg and the other 135kg. And also Mancha-Preta male 102kg and M&M male I saw he weights 121kg and he is monitored by Onças do Rio Negro.

https://www.facebook.com/oncasdorionegro/posts/1919242731431155

121kg M&M Male.

*This image is copyright of its original author

About the average size due to the lack of enough infos and datas published for the public unfortunately. I still think the average Pantanal male is 105kg because for each small pantanal male of 100kg or slightly bellow, there are 3 larger ones. The Almeida's average was 90kg more than 40 years ago with jaguars on an enviornment and conditions I don't even wanna talk about, Peter Crawshaw himself knows what I am talking about cause he saw it all in person back then. They don't average 90kg anymore, NO WAY. People should bury that outdated claim nowadays once and for all.

Pantanal jaguars got the size they deserve TODAY.

you should also add Matheus 134kg and Sossego 130kg males. Onças do Rio Negro monitores both ( not Sossego anymore sadly ).


And from northern pantanal besides Juru and Adriano there's also that 148kg empty male. I think just the nowadays northern Pantanal males would be enough to TANK these outdated Almeida's weight datas, and if you add up the Southern Pantanal males it will be overkill    


Too bad there are very few northern pantanal males verified, the much larger ones you'll find there.


There are more jaguars to be add up to your list but it will take some time to gather them ALL.



And remember Cerrado jaguars average 87.5kg confirmed by IOP in a study probably prior to that of the comparison with the Cerrado Puma with not just 2 males because when they compare the cats sizes and habits on that study both cat's average sizes are already settled. So there was definitely a prior separated study on just their average sizes in depth otherwise they wouldn't make that ''an average sized cerrado jaguar of 87.5kg'' claim on their comparison study. And these studies about Cerrado jaguars were part of the requirements of obtaining PHD in animal biology in the university of Brasília so they should be taken completely serious.

I wish I could get my hands on those files. :)

Okay perfect! Once I have some free time I will sit down and do a compilation for both Northern and Southern Pantanal jaguars. This should be interesting :)

Great and also big Cerrado males overlap with a few Pantanal males, large cerrado ones go from 105kg to 110kg with one confirmed to be 118kg as well as the misterious massive Tiago cerrado male who unfortunately nobody knows his size except Leandro and IOP.

But let's separate them by populations.

I will try to contact directly members from Onçafari and Rio Negro to get direct quotes from them if I can too. If we can get the weight for Tiago that would be even better.

(05-23-2020, 12:13 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 12:06 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox

By the way are you gonna watch OnçaTalks today? Its the last day.
 
Same time at 6:30 PM (Brazil time zone)

The last few days wasn't that much ''all about jaguar'' as the first day but they were good with amazing pure source of informations, datas and content on other species and wildlife. but I think today as the last day it will have more jaguars involved just like the first day.

Don't forget that tomorrow there will be the ''Bafo de Onças''  live of Onças do Iguaçú project with the guests of Argentinian Proyecto Yaguarete, Peter Crawshaw himself and others but It'll be on facebook tomorrow at 7:00 PM (Brazil time zone).

I will be turning in, the one two days ago was really interesting as it dealt with the reintroduction of jaguars in Iberá, that is another project to look out for.

(05-23-2020, 06:53 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 06:47 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.  

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it.

You're right, I will go back and add more weights. This will take me a while to complete but the most information we have available the better

Yes, the live was cut short. I believe they had issues with the connection, but today there's this one:

And we'll be expecting to see what Peter Crawshaw tells you!

(05-23-2020, 06:47 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.  

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it.

(05-23-2020, 09:16 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 06:47 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.  

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it.

I'm almost done updating the table with all the weights from these thread, but there is one that I'm hesitant to add. According to this news story, this 140 kg male jaguar was killed in a road crash. I don't doubt that such weight is possible but the source might be questionable, what do you think?
https://diarionline.com.br/?s=noticia&id=115578#.Xlfp-w_zEdA.whatsapp

(05-23-2020, 09:43 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Here is the updated table with all the data gathered throughout this tread. @peter, as per your request I have included weights and weights estimates provided by the entities who weighed the jaguars, many of them didn't publish information on weights hence the incomplete row.

The new average is therefor 118.89 kg for a sample of 32 individuals. I decided not to include the 140 kg male that was ran by a car due to source accuracy. Nonetheless, if that male was to be added the average would be 119.53 with a sample of 33.

As stated before I will continuously update the table as new weights are released, that way we will have a better understanding an idea these jaguars with updated data.

*This image is copyright of its original author

(05-23-2020, 10:10 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 09:53 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 09:43 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Here is the updated table with all the data gathered throughout this tread. @peter, as per your request I have included weights and weights estimates provided by the entities who weighed the jaguars, many of them didn't publish information on weights hence the incomplete row.

The new average is therefor 118.89 kg for a sample of 32 individuals. I decided not to include the 140 kg male that was ran by a car due to source accuracy. Nonetheless, if that male was to be added the average would be 119.53 with a sample of 33.

As stated before I will continuously update the table as new weights are released, that way we will have a better understanding an idea these jaguars with updated data.

*This image is copyright of its original author

There are a few males you have to just switch the area for example take all jags monitored by onças do rio negro and switch to south pantanal area, Onças do rio negro monitores the southern area I think very little northern Pantanal males sizes were unveiled.

It would be cool to do a separated on females, Cerrado jags...

Did you catch the males from the table I posted?

I just updated the table, I don't think I saw your table, but feel free to repost it again I might've missed it.

(05-23-2020, 09:33 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 09:28 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 09:16 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(05-23-2020, 06:47 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.  

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it.

I'm almost done updating the table with all the weights from these thread, but there is one that I'm hesitant to add. According to this news story, this 140 kg male jaguar was killed in a road crash. I don't doubt that such weight is possible but the source might be questionable, what do you think?
https://diarionline.com.br/?s=noticia&id=115578#.Xlfp-w_zEdA.whatsapp

This jaguar I searched in many brazilian news pages to get more details on how he was weighed and by who or even to find extra photos other than that one but I didn't find anything different than that of the link you sent. They only stated it weights 140kg and thats all.

Back when it happened a few facebook pages about jags posted this tragedy as well.

Yes, so sad that such a big male had to die that way. I won't include him in the table just because the weight wasn't provided by an conversational entity or scientific team, nonetheless thanks for your answer!