(01-18-2019, 08:55 AM)Greatearth Wrote: About tiger and dhole interaction. I think that tiger is defeating dhole pack most of times.
Just look male grizzly bear is fighting against wolf pack in the USA and male lions are defending its pride against hyena pack in the Africa. Why would powerful animal like tiger, which is more powerful/stronger than lion, would defeated by dhole pack? Dhole is seems to be more dangerous when they are with pack. Still, it would be useless if it is prime powerful male tigers.  Why would grey wolf is heading extinct where tiger population is rising in the Russian Far East? Howeve,r any situations can happen, I am sure dhole pack can kill tigers if entire dholes fight against tiger to the death. Like this one guy in Tanzania killed leopard without weapon when leopard attacked him fist (I heard this 2~3 months ago). Is it common to see man is defeating leopard with his two hands? 95% leopard will easily crush the adult man.
In general, tiger and dhole pack would leave each other alone. It's the same for other animals like bear and crocodile as well.

(01-18-2019, 12:31 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(01-18-2019, 08:55 AM)Greatearth Wrote: About tiger and dhole interaction. I think that tiger is defeating dhole pack most of times.
Just look male grizzly bear is fighting against wolf pack in the USA and male lions are defending its pride against hyena pack in the Africa. Why would powerful animal like tiger, which is more powerful/stronger than lion, would defeated by dhole pack? Dhole is seems to be more dangerous when they are with pack. Still, it would be useless if it is prime powerful male tigers.  Why would grey wolf is heading extinct where tiger population is rising in the Russian Far East? Howeve,r any situations can happen, I am sure dhole pack can kill tigers if entire dholes fight against tiger to the death. Like this one guy in Tanzania killed leopard without weapon when leopard attacked him fist (I heard this 2~3 months ago). Is it common to see man is defeating leopard with his two hands? 95% leopard will easily crush the adult man.
In general, tiger and dhole pack would leave each other alone. It's the same for other animals like bear and crocodile as well.

Anyway this is interesting topic and we will see what old and new sources can be found. Like have some others than William Rice heard or seen tiger to climb to a tree to get away from dholes? That is something what tigers don´t do usually and Rice mention that, but so far only in few lines. Anyway that kind of observations for sure would explain a lot of dhole reputation. Tiger in tree escaping something back then in 19th century, that kind of story would have been spreading even without social media :)

Can some tigers been killed, why not, they are flesh and blood like any animal and their skin has no armour, so if dholes have been more aggressive sometimes and big pack attacking from all directions, of course tiger will bleed, even while killing many dholes. That is of course possible, question is, that are dholes or have they been really willing to lose so many members from a pack as it takes to injure or kill a tiger, it is clear, that price is heavy, even though dholes are small and agile.

(01-18-2019, 12:56 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(01-18-2019, 08:55 AM)Greatearth Wrote: About tiger and dhole interaction. I think that tiger is defeating dhole pack most of times.
Just look male grizzly bear is fighting against wolf pack in the USA and male lions are defending its pride against hyena pack in the Africa. Why would powerful animal like tiger, which is more powerful/stronger than lion, would defeated by dhole pack? Dhole is seems to be more dangerous when they are with pack. Still, it would be useless if it is prime powerful male tigers.  Why would grey wolf is heading extinct where tiger population is rising in the Russian Far East? Howeve,r any situations can happen, I am sure dhole pack can kill tigers if entire dholes fight against tiger to the death. Like this one guy in Tanzania killed leopard without weapon when leopard attacked him fist (I heard this 2~3 months ago). Is it common to see man is defeating leopard with his two hands? 95% leopard will easily crush the adult man.
In general, tiger and dhole pack would leave each other alone. It's the same for other animals like bear and crocodile as well.

Btw what comes to grey wolves, they aren´t going to extinction in Russia, but tigers have expelled those in areas where tigers live. Wolves have just gone elsewhere, there is so much space and forests in Siberia and Russia :)

(01-18-2019, 09:55 PM)Greatearth Wrote:

(01-18-2019, 12:56 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(01-18-2019, 08:55 AM)Greatearth Wrote: About tiger and dhole interaction. I think that tiger is defeating dhole pack most of times.
Just look male grizzly bear is fighting against wolf pack in the USA and male lions are defending its pride against hyena pack in the Africa. Why would powerful animal like tiger, which is more powerful/stronger than lion, would defeated by dhole pack? Dhole is seems to be more dangerous when they are with pack. Still, it would be useless if it is prime powerful male tigers.  Why would grey wolf is heading extinct where tiger population is rising in the Russian Far East? Howeve,r any situations can happen, I am sure dhole pack can kill tigers if entire dholes fight against tiger to the death. Like this one guy in Tanzania killed leopard without weapon when leopard attacked him fist (I heard this 2~3 months ago). Is it common to see man is defeating leopard with his two hands? 95% leopard will easily crush the adult man.
In general, tiger and dhole pack would leave each other alone. It's the same for other animals like bear and crocodile as well.

Btw what comes to grey wolves, they aren´t going to extinction in Russia, but tigers have expelled those in areas where tigers live. Wolves have just gone elsewhere, there is so much space and forests in Siberia and Russia :)

If you read/understand what I wrote. That was what I meant. Tigers drove away wolves from their habitats, and wolf population is extinct(or better to say disappear to other area) in tiger's habitat

(01-18-2019, 09:55 PM)Greatearth Wrote:

(01-18-2019, 12:56 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(01-18-2019, 08:55 AM)Greatearth Wrote: About tiger and dhole interaction. I think that tiger is defeating dhole pack most of times.
Just look male grizzly bear is fighting against wolf pack in the USA and male lions are defending its pride against hyena pack in the Africa. Why would powerful animal like tiger, which is more powerful/stronger than lion, would defeated by dhole pack? Dhole is seems to be more dangerous when they are with pack. Still, it would be useless if it is prime powerful male tigers.  Why would grey wolf is heading extinct where tiger population is rising in the Russian Far East? Howeve,r any situations can happen, I am sure dhole pack can kill tigers if entire dholes fight against tiger to the death. Like this one guy in Tanzania killed leopard without weapon when leopard attacked him fist (I heard this 2~3 months ago). Is it common to see man is defeating leopard with his two hands? 95% leopard will easily crush the adult man.
In general, tiger and dhole pack would leave each other alone. It's the same for other animals like bear and crocodile as well.

Btw what comes to grey wolves, they aren´t going to extinction in Russia, but tigers have expelled those in areas where tigers live. Wolves have just gone elsewhere, there is so much space and forests in Siberia and Russia :)

If you read/understand what I wrote. That was what I meant. Tigers drove away wolves from their habitats, and wolf population is extinct(or better to say disappear to other area) in tiger's habitat

(01-19-2019, 06:23 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Shadow :

Look at this video : a tiger chasing a leopard. The both felids climbed onto a tree. The only one difference: because of his weight, the tiger wasn't as comfortable as the leopard.

(01-16-2019, 08:40 PM)Wolverine Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 09:46 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: Again, the videos that you posted shows that the dholes are very nervous and are trying to disctract the tiger or drive it away. Tiger, on the other hand, dominate them, attack them or simply ignore them.

I have hard time to see a "domination" in some of these videos. Yes, dholes are cautious, but they obviously don't afraid of the tiger at all,  they are impudent, cautious and curious altogether.

(01-20-2019, 01:00 PM)peter Wrote:

(01-20-2019, 10:05 AM)Richardrli Wrote: Is there agreement now on whether the Javan tiger was larger than the Sumatran tiger?

As I measured enough skulls to get to conclusions, I decided for a few tables a year or two ago. They were not posted. When I finish the other tables, I will post everything I have. 

Here's a few results.

a - In greatest total length, wild male Javan tigers top the table. 
b - Same in captive males. 
c - In wild females, there is no significant difference between Java and Sumatra.
d - Skulls of captive Sumatran tigresses are longer (greatest total length) than those of captive Javan tigresses. 
e - Individual variation in Sumatran skulls is more pronounced than in Javan skulls (males and females).
f - In greatest total skull length, there are significant differences between young adults and adults. 

I'm not sure if there's a relation between skull size, body length and mass. There's good info on Sumatra, but Java is an enigma. At the moment, I'm reading books written by naturalists and hunters. I'm also trying to find hunting magazins. I might decide to visit a few institutes in order to find out more.