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+----- Thread: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage (/topic-avoca-male-lions-and-their-male-lineage)
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RE: Avoca male lions - Duco Ndona - 11-17-2022
Even with teamwork hunting Buffalo is a very dangerous and impressive task.
This was just a bunch of subadults against a whole herd of Buffalo hunting lion. Stuff like this happens and there is nothing those subs could have done.
The subs are currently waiting for him a bit further. It feels as if they are testing wheter or not DM is able to join with them.
But that they didnt just move on without him shows they have atleast some bond between them.
RE: Avoca male lions - afortich - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 12:08 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I dont think subs where actually trying to save DM, they just prob tried to hunt again and buffaloes run away and left DM alone.
These guys are being followed by DM only for few days, a male who they even dont know that well and with who they never hang out until this point, they only prob encountered him few times before (regardless if he is their father, they dont know that, they see Mohawk and Blondie as their fathers), young males even attacked him.
They have 0 bond with him and litteraly no reason to save him.
As harsh as it sound, they see him only as a bourden and prob dont want him near by..
What I am saying is that I think DM by himself won't try to hunt a buffalo, DM was caught in a team work and his team fail.
What about the old lioness, I think her name is chela. She should know him, right??
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 12:19 AM)afortich Wrote: What I am saying is that I think DM by himself won't try to hunt a buffalo, DM was caught in a team work.
What about the old lioness, I think her name is chela. She should know him, right??
As far as i understand, he didn’t hunt, he was following subs who where trying to hunt, he was behind, but chaos erupted and buffaloes turn, him not being mobile/fast enough to escape, was caught in between buffaloes.
Regardless if Chela knows him from the past or not, DM and these guys are not part of the same group, to being accepted in the same group takes much longer then 3 days.
Even in the part of the same group/pride, its questionable if the rest of the pride would try to save somebody surrounded and attacked by herd of buffaloes. Old Jock male was left by his 5 sons, who where in a coalition, to get killed, in similar scenario.
RE: Avoca male lions - afortich - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 12:30 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(11-17-2022, 12:19 AM)afortich Wrote: What I am saying is that I think DM by himself won't try to hunt a buffalo, DM was caught in a team work.
What about the old lioness, I think her name is chela. She should know him, right??
As far as i understand, he didn’t hunt, he was following subs who where trying to hunt, he was behind, but chaos erupted and buffaloes turn, him not being mobile/fast enough to escape, was caught in between buffaloes.
Regardless if Chela knows him from the past or not, DM and these guys are not part of the same group, to being accepted in the same group takes much longer then 3 days.
Even in the part of the same group/pride, its questionable if the rest of the pride would try to save somebody surrounded and attacked by herd of buffaloes. Old Jock male was left by his 5 sons, who where in a coalition, to get killed, in similar scenario.
You're right that DM is not part of the pride from what the very few videos we have of their interaction. However, there could be way more compared to what we know.
The posting doesn't exclude DM, it says "they" were hunting, which includes all of them.
Additionally, it's hard for me to digest that DM was only an spectator because if he only was waiting for a successful hunt, He wouldn't be caught while watching from a distance. In other words, it very likely that he had to intervene/participate in the hunt in order to get caught.
RE: Avoca male lions - Mdz123 - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 12:19 AM)afortich Wrote:(11-17-2022, 12:08 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I dont think subs where actually trying to save DM, they just prob tried to hunt again and buffaloes run away and left DM alone.
These guys are being followed by DM only for few days, a male who they even dont know that well and with who they never hang out until this point, they only prob encountered him few times before (regardless if he is their father, they dont know that, they see Mohawk and Blondie as their fathers), young males even attacked him.
They have 0 bond with him and litteraly no reason to save him.
As harsh as it sound, they see him only as a bourden and prob dont want him near by..
What I am saying is that I think DM by himself won't try to hunt a buffalo, DM was caught in a team work and his team fail.
What about the old lioness, I think her name is chela. She should know him, right??
Here's my perception of how everything occured: I dont think DM or Nkuhumas subs had the intentions to hunt at all, since they are already full after eating the buffalo which they shared with Mohawk.
Normally, Mohawk would chase him off, but it would seem that after Blondie's death Mohawk is kind of trying to reconnect with DM. DM, however doesnt seem much interested right now in a reunion as he was constantly growling at Mohawk.
After the kill was finished, DM and Mohawk probably left off, leaving NK subs alone, and DM kept on following them. Since lions are oppurtunists, even tho they were still digesting the buffalo, they obviously saw an opportunity and took it, and given their relative young age and inexperienced, they failed, and as the buffaloes chased them back, DM got caught in the chaos.
RE: Avoca male lions - Duco Ndona - 11-17-2022
The Buffalo dont care about such distinctions. They wanted the lions gone, saw him and went after him.
RE: Avoca male lions - afortich - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 01:00 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: The Buffalo dont care about such distinctions. They wanted the lions gone, saw him and went after him.
You're right. However, from a distance is very likely that DM would not get caught, therefore, it is more likely that DM was participating in the hunt.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tonpa - 11-17-2022
by Nkorho Lodge
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 12:58 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: : I dont think DM or Nkuhumas subs had the intentions to hunt at all, since they are already full after eating the buffalo which they shared with Mohawk.
They are not full, if you watch them today on WE, they are completley empthy bellied already and quite skinny, looks like they didnt get too much of that buffalo, they definitely need a meal.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 01:18 AM)Tonpa Wrote: by Nkorho Lodge
This doesnt sound good, definitely some problem inside him..
RE: Avoca male lions - BA0701 - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 01:18 AM)Tonpa Wrote: by Nkorho Lodge
Looks like possibly either a punctured lung, or he may have internal bleeding filling his chest cavity, keeping his lungs from being able to fully inflate. Either way, this is horrible to see him going through this, he feels like he is suffocating. I had a dog with a cancerous tumor in her chest go through something very similar, and it was gut wrenching not being able to help her.
RE: Avoca male lions - Duco Ndona - 11-17-2022
By the looks of it its during exhalation.
It sounds as if he is slowly choking on something and trying to cough it up. Unless he inhaled some dirt or something that he is now trying to get out. Its not a good sign.
RE: Avoca male lions - criollo2mil - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 01:26 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(11-17-2022, 01:18 AM)Tonpa Wrote: by Nkorho Lodge
Looks like possibly either a punctured lung, or he may have internal bleeding filling his chest cavity, keeping his lungs from being able to fully inflate. Either way, this is horrible to see him going through this, he feels like he is suffocating. I had a dog with a cancerous tumor in her chest go through something very similar, and it was gut wrenching not being able to help her.
he may suffer the same fate as Scrapper. this scenario and injury reminds me of him.
RE: Avoca male lions - BA0701 - 11-17-2022
Possibly a broken front leg as well. They sure did a number on him. I know exactly how the guide feels.
RE: Avoca male lions - BA0701 - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 01:33 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: By the looks of it its during exhalation.
It sounds as if he is slowly choking on something and trying to cough it up. Unless he inhaled some dirt or something that he is now trying to get out. Its not a good sign.
Our dogs (we had two go through the exact same cancer months apart, sisters to our current elderly male) did the same exact thing, it was, at times, like trying to cough something up. When we explained it to the oncologist, he said that it was her body's natural reaction, likely trying to cough out what she felt was an obstruction. The low volume of air intake was the reason for the coughs to be so soft and muffled. His shallow breaths are what I noticed.