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+----- Thread: The Birmingham Males (/topic-the-birmingham-males)
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RE: The Birmingham Males - Matimbalani - 04-17-2020
(04-17-2020, 05:40 PM)Slayerd Wrote:(04-16-2020, 09:53 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Tinyo and Nhenha with serious face on, when they pursuit 4 N'ws males:That's a strategy. It's to separate the one brother from the other 3. Whilst one Bboy chases the other 3 away, and remember these guys were afraid of the two Bboys, the other will corner the one and 1v1 none of these boys would stand close to a chance. And then both would join up and maul the lone male. It's just like a buffalo hunt, separate the prey from the herd and then attack it all together.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This 2 are not that often seen in Sabi Sabi, Sabi Sabi is considerate more on a border of their territory, so its suprise that they pursuit 4 N'ws males that deep in Sabi Sabi.
They prob heard roars of the young males from far away, so they come to investigate "new neighbors" far from their natal pride and youngster, to send a messege that further north is their land and they are not messing around.
2 Bboys are still much bigger then 4 N'ws males, and when together they can still chase them even outnumbered, but its reported that Tinyo and Nhena split, and that 1 was chasing 1 male, and 2nd was chasing 3 males alone, that situation can be dangerous for them, if 3 males turned around they can easly beat and pot kill alone male.
BBoys did what they needed to do, try to intimidate younger males, far from their core territory, when its not too late.
Well, its a double edged sword. What if the three turn and surround the lone BBoy? The odds will be worse for the isolated BBoy (1 vs 3) than the lone Nwas male (1 vs 1). Size will only carry you so far. Its very rare for a one-on-one encounter to be fatal since even an overwhelmed lion will still have a mouth full of teeth.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 04-17-2020
(04-17-2020, 06:00 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Well, its a double edged sword. What if the three turn and surround the lone BBoy? The odds will be worse for the isolated BBoy (1 vs 3) than the lone Nwas male (1 vs 1). Size will only carry you so far. Its very rare for a one-on-one encounter to be fatal since even an overwhelmed lion will still have a mouth full of teeth.
As you said, it is double edge sword, but Bboys prob seen that this young males wont turn on them, that they are too afraid, so they take the risk.
As @Slayerd says, job of 1 vs 1 male is not to kill his opponent (as you said, 1vs1 rarely ends up fatal if both lions are adult) but to hold lone male, and wait for his brother to join, when he chase others away.
I think this example can be seen on 2 Southern Matimbas vs young Fourways males, Ginger caught 1 male, Ginger was too powerful in 1 on 1 and he easly hold the young male, while Hairy Belly chased the others away and then join up and mauled the young male together.
Lion clashes are more of a mind games..
RE: The Birmingham Males - Dark Jaguar - 04-17-2020
What are the coalitions that rules Mala Mala today?
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 04-17-2020
(04-17-2020, 07:05 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: What are the coalitions that rules Mala Mala today?
BBoys big portion, around main camp and along Sand River, 2 N. Avocas can be seen recently in the north around Mluwati Dam, on east border Torchwood male can be seen from Kruger, and in the south border 2 S. Avocas occasionaly from Kirkmans Kamp.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Matimbalani - 04-17-2020
(04-17-2020, 06:55 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:You are right but from a purely chance based calculation the risk is higher for the BBoys than the Nwas. So far as I know this was their first encounter and I don't think those end up in serious conflict as neither side knows the strength of the other. The point is to ultimately increase chances of reproduction, the less the chance of death or injury the better.(04-17-2020, 06:00 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Well, its a double edged sword. What if the three turn and surround the lone BBoy? The odds will be worse for the isolated BBoy (1 vs 3) than the lone Nwas male (1 vs 1). Size will only carry you so far. Its very rare for a one-on-one encounter to be fatal since even an overwhelmed lion will still have a mouth full of teeth.
As you said, it is double edge sword, but Bboys prob seen that this young males wont turn on them, that they are too afraid, so they take the risk.
As @Slayerd says, job of 1 vs 1 male is not to kill his opponent (as you said, 1vs1 rarely ends up fatal if both lions are adult) but to hold lone male, and wait for his brother to join, when he chase others away.
I think this example can be seen on 2 Southern Matimbas vs young Fourways males, Ginger caught 1 male, Ginger was too powerful in 1 on 1 and he easly hold the young male, while Hairy Belly chased the others away and then join up and mauled the young male together.
Lion clashes are more of a mind games..
If the Nwas were a bit older may be we would have seen what happened to Kinky Tail. If one lion takes a chance and stands their ground and attracts the others the tables will turn in an instant. On the other hand if his brothers keep running he will likely become toast.
That being said a lot of factors play into this: the experience of the intruders, how many times they have had encounters before, their relative size, and the strength of bonds between coalitions. Usually it's the loner or outsider that goes first: the blondie of the Mohlabetsi coalition and the blondie in the Fourway coalition.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 04-17-2020
(04-17-2020, 08:40 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: You are right but from a purely chance based calculation the risk is higher for the BBoys than the Nwas. So far as I know this was their first encounter and I don't think those end up in serious conflict as neither side knows the strength of the other. The point is to ultimately increase chances of reproduction, the less the chance of death or injury the better.
If the Nwas were a bit older may be we would have seen what happened to Kinky Tail. If one lion takes a chance and stands their ground and attracts the others the tables will turn in an instant. On the other hand if his brothers keep running he will likely become toast.
That being said a lot of factors play into this: the experience of the intruders, how many times they have had encounters before, their relative size, and the strength of bonds between coalitions. Usually it's the loner or outsider that goes first: the blondie of the Mohlabetsi coalition and the blondie in the Fourway coalition.
Blondie in Fourways was not outsider, he was sired by Majingilanes and brother of Dark Maned Fourways, 3rd male who is still alive and with Dark Mane was the unrelated male who joined Fourways pride.
But i think thats random, many times most biggest and dominant males gets caught first, because they have the most confidence and because of that can split occasionaly from the rest, for example 5th Majingilane. Also the dominant N'ws male often can be seen alone, and judging by the pictures and videos he was the male who split from other 3, but maybe that isnt random, as he is the strongest and has the best chance of the 4 to fight alone if he gets caught, while the 3 weaker ones stick together.
But yea, a lot of factors are in the play, 2 Bboys certaintly wouldn't chase like that a big, dominant males, situation would be different..
RE: The Birmingham Males - Slayerd - 04-18-2020
(04-17-2020, 06:00 PM)Matimbalani Wrote:(04-17-2020, 05:40 PM)Slayerd Wrote:(04-16-2020, 09:53 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Tinyo and Nhenha with serious face on, when they pursuit 4 N'ws males:That's a strategy. It's to separate the one brother from the other 3. Whilst one Bboy chases the other 3 away, and remember these guys were afraid of the two Bboys, the other will corner the one and 1v1 none of these boys would stand close to a chance. And then both would join up and maul the lone male. It's just like a buffalo hunt, separate the prey from the herd and then attack it all together.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This 2 are not that often seen in Sabi Sabi, Sabi Sabi is considerate more on a border of their territory, so its suprise that they pursuit 4 N'ws males that deep in Sabi Sabi.
They prob heard roars of the young males from far away, so they come to investigate "new neighbors" far from their natal pride and youngster, to send a messege that further north is their land and they are not messing around.
2 Bboys are still much bigger then 4 N'ws males, and when together they can still chase them even outnumbered, but its reported that Tinyo and Nhena split, and that 1 was chasing 1 male, and 2nd was chasing 3 males alone, that situation can be dangerous for them, if 3 males turned around they can easly beat and pot kill alone male.
BBoys did what they needed to do, try to intimidate younger males, far from their core territory, when its not too late.
Well, its a double edged sword. What if the three turn and surround the lone BBoy? The odds will be worse for the isolated BBoy (1 vs 3) than the lone Nwas male (1 vs 1). Size will only carry you so far. Its very rare for a one-on-one encounter to be fatal since even an overwhelmed lion will still have a mouth full of teeth.
Not exactly. To those Lions, they needed to get as far as possible away from Nhenha and Tinyo. They're not thinking about numbers or a takeover. They're scared. Bboys are more experienced and know what to do. It's like 2 veteran soldiers vs rookies in training. And the Bboys are the hunters. So the Bboys split the group and hoped to catch one alone. If you look at wars, smaller numbers won through breaking apart the larger army and closing them in until they break. If that one N'waswitshihaka was caught, he would be dead whilst the Bboy had the N'waswitshihaka on the run so he doesn't have to worry about being caught. The Nwas don't have the confidence to face him. They eventually probably ran without looking back or even noticing whether they were still being followed and by then it'd be too late.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Matimbalani - 04-18-2020
(04-18-2020, 12:15 AM)Slayerd Wrote:(04-17-2020, 06:00 PM)Matimbalani Wrote:(04-17-2020, 05:40 PM)Slayerd Wrote:(04-16-2020, 09:53 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Tinyo and Nhenha with serious face on, when they pursuit 4 N'ws males:That's a strategy. It's to separate the one brother from the other 3. Whilst one Bboy chases the other 3 away, and remember these guys were afraid of the two Bboys, the other will corner the one and 1v1 none of these boys would stand close to a chance. And then both would join up and maul the lone male. It's just like a buffalo hunt, separate the prey from the herd and then attack it all together.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This 2 are not that often seen in Sabi Sabi, Sabi Sabi is considerate more on a border of their territory, so its suprise that they pursuit 4 N'ws males that deep in Sabi Sabi.
They prob heard roars of the young males from far away, so they come to investigate "new neighbors" far from their natal pride and youngster, to send a messege that further north is their land and they are not messing around.
2 Bboys are still much bigger then 4 N'ws males, and when together they can still chase them even outnumbered, but its reported that Tinyo and Nhena split, and that 1 was chasing 1 male, and 2nd was chasing 3 males alone, that situation can be dangerous for them, if 3 males turned around they can easly beat and pot kill alone male.
BBoys did what they needed to do, try to intimidate younger males, far from their core territory, when its not too late.
Well, its a double edged sword. What if the three turn and surround the lone BBoy? The odds will be worse for the isolated BBoy (1 vs 3) than the lone Nwas male (1 vs 1). Size will only carry you so far. Its very rare for a one-on-one encounter to be fatal since even an overwhelmed lion will still have a mouth full of teeth.
Not exactly. To those Lions, they needed to get as far as possible away from Nhenha and Tinyo. They're not thinking about numbers or a takeover. They're scared. Bboys are more experienced and know what to do. It's like 2 veteran soldiers vs rookies in training. And the Bboys are the hunters. So the Bboys split the group and hoped to catch one alone. If you look at wars, smaller numbers won through breaking apart the larger army and closing them in until they break. If that one N'waswitshihaka was caught, he would be dead whilst the Bboy had the N'waswitshihaka on the run so he doesn't have to worry about being caught. The Nwas don't have the confidence to face him. They eventually probably ran without looking back or even noticing whether they were still being followed and by then it'd be too late.
You'r right. Though it's not assured that they would kill the youngster. The Mbiris managed to get hold of the lone young male, but left him after a thorough thrashing. The Mantis also did the same thing. I suppose much of it is situational.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 04-18-2020
(04-18-2020, 12:15 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Not exactly. To those Lions, they needed to get as far as possible away from Nhenha and Tinyo. They're not thinking about numbers or a takeover. They're scared. Bboys are more experienced and know what to do. It's like 2 veteran soldiers vs rookies in training. And the Bboys are the hunters. So the Bboys split the group and hoped to catch one alone. If you look at wars, smaller numbers won through breaking apart the larger army and closing them in until they break. If that one N'waswitshihaka was caught, he would be dead whilst the Bboy had the N'waswitshihaka on the run so he doesn't have to worry about being caught. The Nwas don't have the confidence to face him. They eventually probably ran without looking back or even noticing whether they were still being followed and by then it'd be too late.
Well that works if they chase young nomadic males who are not interested in their territory but only there for food, those males wont turn and fight dominant males, but N'ws are clearly step higher,they where mating in that area, scent marking and roaring, as you can see from the video, after the chase, they didnt run without looking back as young nomadic males which you described would do, they all regruop and started roaring back too Bboys, that means that they are interested in that territory and become dominant.
KT and mr T where in exact position, they split, and 4 young Majingilanes who where chased turn around and mauled to death KT, mr T was too late to save him.
This can work few times, but eventualy young males will get enough confident and they will turn around.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 04-21-2020
Nhenha with 1 of many subadult males from Kambula pride :
*This image is copyright of its original author
This one looks like Tinyo, they are getting bigger, few of them will soon be the size of an lioness.
I hope that Bboys can defend them for atleast 1 or 1.5 more year, so we dont get another Mhangeni tragedy and can finally get very big male coalition from Sabi Sands after many years..
RE: The Birmingham Males - 239Pu - 04-22-2020
(04-21-2020, 09:03 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Nhenha with 1 of many subadult males from Kambula pride :why would you hope for a big coalition ? they go around slaughtering lion everywhere , and probably pass on inferior genes because they are not the strongest , just lucky to be part of a gang . I don't see how male lion coalitions help the species in any way
*This image is copyright of its original author
This one looks like Tinyo, they are getting bigger, few of them will soon be the size of an lioness.
I hope that Bboys can defend them for atleast 1 or 1.5 more year, so we dont get another Mhangeni tragedy and can finally get very big male coalition from Sabi Sands after many years..
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 04-22-2020
(04-22-2020, 02:10 AM)239Pu Wrote: why would you hope for a big coalition ? they go around slaughtering lion everywhere , and probably pass on inferior genes because they are not the strongest , just lucky to be part of a gang . I don't see how male lion coalitions help the species in any way
Big coalitions sire waaay more cubs to adulthood then smaller coalition or alone males,because they will most likely never lose their territory and those cubs have higher chance to succeed and survive. So idk how that isnt helping for species.
Yes they will prob kill few lions in takeover but thats how it is, they will most likely sire many more then they've killed. And those lions which they kill, prob did the same to other lions, thats how it is for thousands of years.
For the stronger genes point, all lions who reach adulthood are strong, which is like 20% of cubs, theres no weak genes there and coalitions have nothing to do with that.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Cunaguaro - 04-23-2020
Nothing matches the power of the lions voice when they eat their prey #Birmingham males & #Kambula pride 22 lions on a wildebeest kill.
@Londolozi Game Reserve
Credit: James Tyrrell
Posted: 22 April 2020
RE: The Birmingham Males - Cunaguaro - 04-23-2020
Nhenha from previous years not current.
Credit: Kyle Smith.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: The Birmingham Males - Cunaguaro - 04-23-2020
¡King Nhenha roaring powerfull!
Credit: Nick Kleer
Posted: April 17, 2020.
https://www.facebook.com/Eagle4eva/videos/2701365986638662/