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+----- Thread: Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage (/topic-avoca-male-lions-and-their-male-lineage)
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RE: Avoca male lions - BA0701 - 08-11-2022
(08-11-2022, 10:19 PM)Tonpa Wrote: It looked more like lion bites to the honest, he had a single puncture hole right at the base of his tail and two more on his thigh
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Those fang holes on his thigh seemed a bit far apart and big for hyena to me too, which was another reason for my openly wondering.
RE: Avoca male lions - afortich - 08-11-2022
(08-11-2022, 10:31 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 10:19 PM)Tonpa Wrote: It looked more like lion bites to the honest, he had a single puncture hole right at the base of his tail and two more on his thigh
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Those fang holes on his thigh seemed a bit far apart and big for hyena to me too, which was another reason for my openly wondering.
Agree, it looks to me more like a lion altercation because some of the most likely scenarios to me are:
1) Hyena Attack: you may need about 14 of them assuming DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, you need a really greater number because Talamatis will back him up, which seems an unlikely scenerio.
2) Lion Attack: you only need another male lion if DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, they may have left DM alone, which seems more likely to me because I don't see the Talamatis close to him, or, one of the oldest Talamatis would have helped him to chase off the other lion.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 08-11-2022
(08-11-2022, 10:56 PM)afortich Wrote: Agree, it looks to me more like a lion altercation because some of the most likely scenarios to me are:
1) Hyena Attack: you may need about 14 of them assuming DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, you need a really greater number because Talamatis will back him up, which seems unlikely.
2) Lion Attack: you only need another male lion if DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, they may have left DM alone, which seems more likely to me because I don't see the Talamatis close to him, or, one of the oldest Talamatis would have helped me to chase off the other lion.
2 Talamati females where close to him on that carcass, in fact, he took it from them and chased them off.
Maybe when he was overtaking the kill from 2 Talamati girls, girls fight back and bite him (prob what happened).
RE: Avoca male lions - afortich - 08-11-2022
(08-11-2022, 11:04 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 10:56 PM)afortich Wrote: Agree, it looks to me more like a lion altercation because some of the most likely scenarios to me are:
1) Hyena Attack: you may need about 14 of them assuming DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, you need a really greater number because Talamatis will back him up, which seems unlikely.
2) Lion Attack: you only need another male lion if DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, they may have left DM alone, which seems more likely to me because I don't see the Talamatis close to him, or, one of the oldest Talamatis would have helped me to chase off the other lion.
2 Talamati females where close to him on that carcass, in fact, he took it from them and chased them off.
Maybe when he was overtaking the kill from 2 Talamati girls, girls fight back and bite him (prob what happened).
That sounds very likely to me buddy.
RE: Avoca male lions - T I N O - 08-11-2022
Good scenario guys. Both sounds very probably. Those holes are possible (if not) of lions.
DM mane is growing little a bit.
RE: Avoca male lions - BA0701 - 08-11-2022
(08-11-2022, 11:04 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 10:56 PM)afortich Wrote: Agree, it looks to me more like a lion altercation because some of the most likely scenarios to me are:
1) Hyena Attack: you may need about 14 of them assuming DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, you need a really greater number because Talamatis will back him up, which seems unlikely.
2) Lion Attack: you only need another male lion if DM was alone. If he was with the Talamatis, they may have left DM alone, which seems more likely to me because I don't see the Talamatis close to him, or, one of the oldest Talamatis would have helped me to chase off the other lion.
2 Talamati females where close to him on that carcass, in fact, he took it from them and chased them off.
Maybe when he was overtaking the kill from 2 Talamati girls, girls fight back and bite him (prob what happened).
The ladies getting feisty, said you're not getting it without a scrap.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tonpa - 08-11-2022
Mohawk with the cubbies
RE: Avoca male lions - T I N O - 08-12-2022
The dark-maned Avoca male was seen recently in Sabi Sands.
DM was seen looking quite skinny and with a slighty limp on his front paw. He has quenching his thirst and moved on
Screenshot from Wildearth.TV
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Avoca male lions - Tonpa - 08-12-2022
Dark Mane alone in central Djuma this morning.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Blondie and Mohawk with the Nkuhuma cub group + two sub-adult males
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Avoca male lions - T I N O - 08-12-2022
The other two N.Avoca males ,,Blondie and Mohawk" and the Nkuhuma pride at Sabi Sands
Screenshot from: Wildearth.TV
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Avoca male lions - Horizon - 08-12-2022
(08-11-2022, 11:56 AM)BigLion39 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 06:01 AM)afortich Wrote: You're right bro.
According to a documentary from BBC earth, 20 hyenas are not a match for two young male lions.
Juat take a look at a rescent video on FB and YouTube of the mischievous Black Rock Boy Olobor, in the Mara, he took on, had to be at least 15-20 hyenas himself, alone. Killed and injured some. He was 1 full grown young male entering his prime years. Hyenas don't want to tangle with an adult male if they don't have to, no matter how many is in the clan.!!!
(08-11-2022, 09:49 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 11:56 AM)BigLion39 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 06:01 AM)afortich Wrote: You're right bro.
According to a documentary from BBC earth, 20 hyenas are not a match for two young male lions.
Juat take a look at a rescent video on FB and YouTube of the mischievous Black Rock Boy Olobor, in the Mara, he took on, had to be at least 15-20 hyenas himself, alone. Killed and injured some. He was 1 full grown young male entering his prime years. Hyenas don't want to tangle with an adult male if they don't have to, no matter how many is in the clan.!!!
Exactly my point, I had seen that video and I also saw a video a long time back, I believe it was a Mapogo, eating a carcass in the water, surrounded by what seemed like an entire clan of hyenas. They may have given him an occasional nip, but they never full on attacked him.
Heck, I just saw a video within the last two weeks, of a jackal coming up behind a very large male lion and biting him on the tail, as the lion was eating a piece of meat or bone. The lions tail would jerk when nipped at, but other than that the lion never even acknowledged the jackal's presence. The whole time, a friend of the jackal was standing off waiting for the lion to drop the meat and chase the jackal.
That is why I was a little surprised that the hyenas seemed to full on attack and injure DM.
Since it was such a recent video, I can locate and post it for anyone that is interested.
That was Pretty Boy, who carried an injury at that time from which he recovered later on I believe. I don’t think that would have happened if he was in his full flight.
DM in his present state is a far cry from Olobor. He might have been harassed.
RE: Avoca male lions - afortich - 08-12-2022
(08-12-2022, 11:07 AM)Horizon Wrote:(08-11-2022, 11:56 AM)BigLion39 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 06:01 AM)afortich Wrote: You're right bro.
According to a documentary from BBC earth, 20 hyenas are not a match for two young male lions.
Juat take a look at a rescent video on FB and YouTube of the mischievous Black Rock Boy Olobor, in the Mara, he took on, had to be at least 15-20 hyenas himself, alone. Killed and injured some. He was 1 full grown young male entering his prime years. Hyenas don't want to tangle with an adult male if they don't have to, no matter how many is in the clan.!!!
(08-11-2022, 09:49 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 11:56 AM)BigLion39 Wrote:(08-11-2022, 06:01 AM)afortich Wrote: You're right bro.
According to a documentary from BBC earth, 20 hyenas are not a match for two young male lions.
Juat take a look at a rescent video on FB and YouTube of the mischievous Black Rock Boy Olobor, in the Mara, he took on, had to be at least 15-20 hyenas himself, alone. Killed and injured some. He was 1 full grown young male entering his prime years. Hyenas don't want to tangle with an adult male if they don't have to, no matter how many is in the clan.!!!
Exactly my point, I had seen that video and I also saw a video a long time back, I believe it was a Mapogo, eating a carcass in the water, surrounded by what seemed like an entire clan of hyenas. They may have given him an occasional nip, but they never full on attacked him.
Heck, I just saw a video within the last two weeks, of a jackal coming up behind a very large male lion and biting him on the tail, as the lion was eating a piece of meat or bone. The lions tail would jerk when nipped at, but other than that the lion never even acknowledged the jackal's presence. The whole time, a friend of the jackal was standing off waiting for the lion to drop the meat and chase the jackal.
That is why I was a little surprised that the hyenas seemed to full on attack and injure DM.
Since it was such a recent video, I can locate and post it for anyone that is interested.
That was Pretty Boy, who carried an injury at that time from which he recovered later on I believe. I don’t think that would have happened if he was in his full flight.
DM in his present state is a far cry from Olobor. He might have been harassed.
I don't think DM is in such a bad condition right now.
DM may not be at his best but that is enough to chase off hyenas.
RE: Avoca male lions - Wyld@Heart - 08-12-2022
(08-12-2022, 11:17 AM)afortich Wrote: I don't think DM is in such a bad condition right now.I watched that sighting live this morning. Ja, he's moving very gingerly and awkwardly, usual front paw stiffness but also seemed to have that stiffness all over. Ribs and spine are visible but seen that worse but what wasn't really noticeable before that is now is how prominent his hip bones are.
He's creaking, sadly, but having said all this he has looked worse and so have others and been fine so chances are he will be too. Hopefully.
RE: Avoca male lions - BigLion39 - 08-12-2022
(08-11-2022, 09:58 PM)afortich Wrote: I saw that video too. The lion didn't bother to look at the jackal
I really like and impressed how @BigLion39 recognize all these lions.
Thanks for the kind words my friend! I'm really only somewhat ok at recognizing Mara lions tho and there are many people far better than I!!!
The 1 lion @BA0701 refers to in the video of the 1 big male eating a carcass in the water was the 1 and only Dreadlocks Mapogo!!!
The other with the jackel testing his luck by biting his tail was the huge boy Lenkisiou, 1 of the 3 Rongai Boys up in Naboisho conservancy! This video was incredible! Sometimes these animals get overly confident by lions always tolerating them while they eat from a few feet distance.!!!
RE: Avoca male lions - BigLion39 - 08-12-2022
(08-12-2022, 10:43 AM)Timbavati Wrote: The other two N.Avoca males ,,Blondie and Mohawk" and the Nkuhuma pride at Sabi Sands
Screenshot from: Wildearth.TV
Poor Blondie. His hind quarters don't look so good. I know this is the usual for him lately. The rest of him seems to be doing just fine tho but without Mohawk & the Pride I'm not sure how long he would be able to make it?