(03-18-2025, 12:19 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 05:46 PM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 05:18 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nice to see this out of the young Nkuhuma male, with the amount of male lions he’s been around u wouldn’t be surprised at all if he just completely backed down, as he normally would when a new coalition enters the territory. He’s a fighter tho.

@KM600
Young Nkuhuma seems comfortable with his pride, and the female backed him. The Kruger male won't be enough to oust him out of the pride.

Why not? If Kruger male can stay with the pride long enough, clashes between him and the young male will become frequent and eventually he will have to leave. Isn't that how all young males are ousted - they got the sympathy of their mothers/aunts/sisters, they still feel comfortable with their natal pride, but eventually the dominant male gets enough of it. Actually I was surprised the females did not help him more.

This time the fight was not very serious. NK put up aggression first but eventually became submissive. Surely Kruger male can easily take him on even if things get more serious than it was this time. It feels like Kruger male has been on a mission from the start of his nomadic journey into Sabi Sands, he wants to be territorial again. (Not saying he easily can with all the dangers lurking.)
'
(Decided to copy @FACR2212 s response in Nkuhuma tread into this thread)

(03-18-2025, 12:19 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 05:46 PM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 05:18 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nice to see this out of the young Nkuhuma male, with the amount of male lions he’s been around u wouldn’t be surprised at all if he just completely backed down, as he normally would when a new coalition enters the territory. He’s a fighter tho.

@KM600
Young Nkuhuma seems comfortable with his pride, and the female backed him. The Kruger male won't be enough to oust him out of the pride.

Why not? If Kruger male can stay with the pride long enough, clashes between him and the young male will become frequent and eventually he will have to leave. Isn't that how all young males are ousted - they got the sympathy of their mothers/aunts/sisters, they still feel comfortable with their natal pride, but eventually the dominant male gets enough of it. Actually I was surprised the females did not help him more.

This time the fight was not very serious. NK put up aggression first but eventually became submissive. Surely Kruger male can easily take him on even if things get more serious than it was this time. It feels like Kruger male has been on a mission from the start of his nomadic journey into Sabi Sands, he wants to be territorial again. (Not saying he easily can with all the dangers lurking.)
'
(Decided to copy @FACR2212 s response in Nkuhuma tread into this thread)

(03-17-2025, 08:14 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 08:06 PM)Dangeroscos Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 07:43 PM)sunless Wrote:

Did they ever mate? Or are they just chilling together?

They have mated in the past, but seem to be just chilling together now.

(03-18-2025, 12:19 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 05:46 PM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-17-2025, 05:18 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nice to see this out of the young Nkuhuma male, with the amount of male lions he’s been around u wouldn’t be surprised at all if he just completely backed down, as he normally would when a new coalition enters the territory. He’s a fighter tho.

@KM600
Young Nkuhuma seems comfortable with his pride, and the female backed him. The Kruger male won't be enough to oust him out of the pride.

Why not? If Kruger male can stay with the pride long enough, clashes between him and the young male will become frequent and eventually he will have to leave. Isn't that how all young males are ousted - they got the sympathy of their mothers/aunts/sisters, they still feel comfortable with their natal pride, but eventually the dominant male gets enough of it. Actually I was surprised the females did not help him more.

This time the fight was not very serious. NK put up aggression first but eventually became submissive. Surely Kruger male can easily take him on even if things get more serious than it was this time. It feels like Kruger male has been on a mission from the start of his nomadic journey into Sabi Sands, he wants to be territorial again. (Not saying he easily can with all the dangers lurking.)
'
(Decided to copy @FACR2212 s response in Nkuhuma tread into this thread)

(03-18-2025, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands 
I know that prides like Styx and Ottawas, Ximungue and Tsalala are quite old already
Middle term we got Manghenis and Nkuhumas 
A bit younger there is the Talamati pride
Most recently we got Kambulas, Ntsevus and Msultu
We lost some over the years like the Sparta, Charleston and Castleton ( I wanted to know more about this pride in particular, they seem to have a story with the Ximungue) wich were really old too
There are some prides that I just get pieces of information here and there and try to puzzle all up together like the 4ways and Southern pride

(03-18-2025, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-18-2025, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands 
I know that prides like Styx and Ottawas, Ximungue and Tsalala are quite old already
Middle term we got Manghenis and Nkuhumas 
A bit younger there is the Talamati pride
Most recently we got Kambulas, Ntsevus and Msultu
We lost some over the years like the Sparta, Charleston and Castleton ( I wanted to know more about this pride in particular, they seem to have a story with the Ximungue) wich were really old too
There are some prides that I just get pieces of information here and there and try to puzzle all up together like the 4ways and Southern pride

Ximhungwe and Castleton are the same pride:
https://rtrwildlifevideos.blogspot.com/2012/05/ximhungwe-pride-of-lions.html
In 2004 the 6 females of the Castleton pride were taken over by the Sand River Male aka Dzunani and soon were producing cubs all over the place. Due to the fact that the pride seldom crossed onto Castleton property anymore it was decided to rename them after the large open area that they were now spending most of their time - Ximhungwe clearings.

Tsalala was a Ximhungwe/Castleton breakaway of two Tsalala original females in the 90's decade (one of them was the mother of BB or Tailless Tsalala).

Southern pride is rather an old pride, because Rollercoaster malles were territorial over southern pride around 2002-2003 (they sired the 2 Golfcourse males, that in turn sired the 5 Selati males).

(03-18-2025, 03:15 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:

(03-18-2025, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-18-2025, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands 
I know that prides like Styx and Ottawas, Ximungue and Tsalala are quite old already
Middle term we got Manghenis and Nkuhumas 
A bit younger there is the Talamati pride
Most recently we got Kambulas, Ntsevus and Msultu
We lost some over the years like the Sparta, Charleston and Castleton ( I wanted to know more about this pride in particular, they seem to have a story with the Ximungue) wich were really old too
There are some prides that I just get pieces of information here and there and try to puzzle all up together like the 4ways and Southern pride

Ximhungwe and Castleton are the same pride:
https://rtrwildlifevideos.blogspot.com/2012/05/ximhungwe-pride-of-lions.html
In 2004 the 6 females of the Castleton pride were taken over by the Sand River Male aka Dzunani and soon were producing cubs all over the place. Due to the fact that the pride seldom crossed onto Castleton property anymore it was decided to rename them after the large open area that they were now spending most of their time - Ximhungwe clearings.

Tsalala was a Ximhungwe/Castleton breakaway of two Tsalala original females in the 90's decade (one of them was the mother of BB or Tailless Tsalala).

Southern pride is rather an old pride, because Rollercoaster malles were territorial over southern pride around 2002-2003 (they sired the 2 Golfcourse males, that in turn sired the 5 Selati males).

Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around
I am fascinated ( not sure if it´s the right word but oh well...) by the way you study the dynamics and history of these beatiful creatures
About the topic: Yeah I tought just that, but still had the doubt if it Xim were a breakaway from Castleton that went extinct, now I know that it isn´t the case 
I wished to use the name Castleton more because it hits a nerve every time I mistype Ximhungwe, but for the sake of people not getting confused I will forever call it " Ximungwe"
It´s not like there was a breakway of some sort it just happend for them to shift territories, not like the other breakaways that we can´t have two prides with the same name like what happend to the Nkuhumas, Talamaties Kambulas and so on
I knew the Tsalalas were a breakaway from the Xim pride, but they themselfs are quite old already too
What I don´t know is if it´s there a correlation between Xim and Ottawas, that would be cool to know given that the Xim pride is divided in half by the two prides
Weren´t the southern pride the ones who got poached quite badly in the past and made a recovery or am I just confusing things ?
Thanks again for you reply

(03-18-2025, 03:15 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:

(03-18-2025, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-18-2025, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands 
I know that prides like Styx and Ottawas, Ximungue and Tsalala are quite old already
Middle term we got Manghenis and Nkuhumas 
A bit younger there is the Talamati pride
Most recently we got Kambulas, Ntsevus and Msultu
We lost some over the years like the Sparta, Charleston and Castleton ( I wanted to know more about this pride in particular, they seem to have a story with the Ximungue) wich were really old too
There are some prides that I just get pieces of information here and there and try to puzzle all up together like the 4ways and Southern pride

Ximhungwe and Castleton are the same pride:
https://rtrwildlifevideos.blogspot.com/2012/05/ximhungwe-pride-of-lions.html
In 2004 the 6 females of the Castleton pride were taken over by the Sand River Male aka Dzunani and soon were producing cubs all over the place. Due to the fact that the pride seldom crossed onto Castleton property anymore it was decided to rename them after the large open area that they were now spending most of their time - Ximhungwe clearings.

Tsalala was a Ximhungwe/Castleton breakaway of two Tsalala original females in the 90's decade (one of them was the mother of BB or Tailless Tsalala).

Southern pride is rather an old pride, because Rollercoaster malles were territorial over southern pride around 2002-2003 (they sired the 2 Golfcourse males, that in turn sired the 5 Selati males).

Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around
I am fascinated ( not sure if it´s the right word but oh well...) by the way you study the dynamics and history of these beatiful creatures
About the topic: Yeah I tought just that, but still had the doubt if it Xim were a breakaway from Castleton that went extinct, now I know that it isn´t the case 
I wished to use the name Castleton more because it hits a nerve every time I mistype Ximhungwe, but for the sake of people not getting confused I will forever call it " Ximungwe"
It´s not like there was a breakway of some sort it just happend for them to shift territories, not like the other breakaways that we can´t have two prides with the same name like what happend to the Nkuhumas, Talamaties Kambulas and so on
I knew the Tsalalas were a breakaway from the Xim pride, but they themselfs are quite old already too
What I don´t know is if it´s there a correlation between Xim and Ottawas, that would be cool to know given that the Xim pride is divided in half by the two prides
Weren´t the southern pride the ones who got poached quite badly in the past and made a recovery or am I just confusing things ?
Thanks again for you reply

(03-18-2025, 03:15 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:

(03-18-2025, 02:41 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-18-2025, 02:22 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands 
I know that prides like Styx and Ottawas, Ximungue and Tsalala are quite old already
Middle term we got Manghenis and Nkuhumas 
A bit younger there is the Talamati pride
Most recently we got Kambulas, Ntsevus and Msultu
We lost some over the years like the Sparta, Charleston and Castleton ( I wanted to know more about this pride in particular, they seem to have a story with the Ximungue) wich were really old too
There are some prides that I just get pieces of information here and there and try to puzzle all up together like the 4ways and Southern pride

Ximhungwe and Castleton are the same pride:
https://rtrwildlifevideos.blogspot.com/2012/05/ximhungwe-pride-of-lions.html
In 2004 the 6 females of the Castleton pride were taken over by the Sand River Male aka Dzunani and soon were producing cubs all over the place. Due to the fact that the pride seldom crossed onto Castleton property anymore it was decided to rename them after the large open area that they were now spending most of their time - Ximhungwe clearings.

Tsalala was a Ximhungwe/Castleton breakaway of two Tsalala original females in the 90's decade (one of them was the mother of BB or Tailless Tsalala).

Southern pride is rather an old pride, because Rollercoaster malles were territorial over southern pride around 2002-2003 (they sired the 2 Golfcourse males, that in turn sired the 5 Selati males).

Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around
I am fascinated ( not sure if it´s the right word but oh well...) by the way you study the dynamics and history of these beatiful creatures
About the topic: Yeah I tought just that, but still had the doubt if it Xim were a breakaway from Castleton that went extinct, now I know that it isn´t the case 
I wished to use the name Castleton more because it hits a nerve every time I mistype Ximhungwe, but for the sake of people not getting confused I will forever call it " Ximungwe"
It´s not like there was a breakway of some sort it just happend for them to shift territories, not like the other breakaways that we can´t have two prides with the same name like what happend to the Nkuhumas, Talamaties Kambulas and so on
I knew the Tsalalas were a breakaway from the Xim pride, but they themselfs are quite old already too
What I don´t know is if it´s there a correlation between Xim and Ottawas, that would be cool to know given that the Xim pride is divided in half by the two prides
Weren´t the southern pride the ones who got poached quite badly in the past and made a recovery or am I just confusing things ?
Thanks again for you reply

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

(03-18-2025, 08:43 PM)Mapokser Wrote:

Young male injured by the dominant males:

Is this a Kambula male? Could Ndhzenga have caught him in Londolozi? Guide is from Londolozi.

*This image is copyright of its original author