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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 02:39 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 01:48 AM)KM600 Wrote: Ye Avoca male had the interaction described as above, the Monwana boys actually responded quicker than Mapoza to him.

Mapoza is his dad.

I know but he still come into a different prides territory, PCMs beat their son for less, obviously we don’t know when Mapoza last seen him. The interaction was more telling of the Monwana boys character anyways.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 02:22 AM)Kendra Wrote: I am trying to get an exact makeup of the numbers and ages of the members of the Torchwood Pride as of today.  Also, can anyone share any history of the pride, the fathers of the current cubs, and young males, and the background of the 4 adult lionesses?  Thanks so much
Fathers of all current subs are the 2 Mantimahle males. 
It was recently posted by Arathusa that the pride consist of 9 sub adult males and 4 adult lioness, not sure how accurate is that especially since it seems weird to not have any female subs mentioned thought.

Hopefully someone can share a bit of the history of the pride and background of the 4 adult lioness.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 04:15 AM)Ngonya Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 02:22 AM)Kendra Wrote: I am trying to get an exact makeup of the numbers and ages of the members of the Torchwood Pride as of today.  Also, can anyone share any history of the pride, the fathers of the current cubs, and young males, and the background of the 4 adult lionesses?  Thanks so much

It was recently posted by Arathusa that the pride consist of 9 sub adult males and 4 adult lioness, not sure how accurate is that especially since it seems weird to not have any female subs mentioned thought.

I doubt that was the entire pride, especially as Arathusa doesn’t see them anywhere near as much as Nkorho for example, but admittedly I can’t remember seeing one of their female subs. 

After the sighting of both Mantimahles having a few injuries from fighting Torchwood Pride over a kill while being with Imbalis, I always thought Torchwood had quite a few more lionesses, not even taking into account the breakaways either.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Guillermo94 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 04:55 AM)UKM600 Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 04:15 AM)Ngonya Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 02:22 AM)Kendra Wrote: I am trying to get an exact makeup of the numbers and ages of the members of the Torchwood Pride as of today.  Also, can anyone share any history of the pride, the fathers of the current cubs, and young males, and the background of the 4 adult lionesses?  Thanks so much

It was recently posted by Arathusa that the pride consist of 9 sub adult males and 4 adult lioness, not sure how accurate is that especially since it seems weird to not have any female subs mentioned thought.

I doubt that was the entire pride, especially as Arathusa doesn’t see them anywhere near as much as Nkorho for example, but admittedly I can’t remember seeing one of their female subs. 

After the sighting of both Mantimahles having a few injuries from fighting Torchwood Pride over a kill while being with Imbalis, I always thought Torchwood had quite a few more lionesses, not even taking into account the breakaways either.

Hi I was going to say wouldn’t it be not easy to see more since is said is hard to see them. Lionesses maybe Matimba and Birmingham daughters?

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Guillermo94 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 04:15 AM)Ngonya Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 02:22 AM)Kendra Wrote: I am trying to get an exact makeup of the numbers and ages of the members of the Torchwood Pride as of today.  Also, can anyone share any history of the pride, the fathers of the current cubs, and young males, and the background of the 4 adult lionesses?  Thanks so much
Fathers of all current subs are the 2 Mantimahle males. 
It was recently posted by Arathusa that the pride consist of 9 sub adult males and 4 adult lioness, not sure how accurate is that especially since it seems weird to not have any female subs mentioned thought.

Hopefully someone can share a bit of the history of the pride and background of the 4 adult lioness.

I do not know much. When seeing Torchwood lions; lions Kruger male lion, Birmingham and Matimbas were with Torchwood. Now Mantimahle male lions which is interesting saying 9 Torchwood male lion sub adults. Must be more lionesses maybe break always lionesses separated.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - FACR2212 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 02:22 AM)Kendra Wrote: I am trying to get an exact makeup of the numbers and ages of the members of the Torchwood Pride as of today.  Also, can anyone share any history of the pride, the fathers of the current cubs, and young males, and the background of the 4 adult lionesses?  Thanks so much

Hey, Torchwood pride roams an area with few reports, so a good picture of the Torchwood pride is difficult to compose. Torchwood is found to the east of Western Gowrie and is 1250 hectares [3,500 acres]  in size. There are no commercial lodges found on this property but Djuma and Cheetah Plains guides and guests traverse there. The property is owned by private individual landowners. Introducing Torchwood! - WildEarth

Anyway, I have investigated the male coalitions that have ruled Torchwood pride since Matimbas:

Matimba males era (2013-2015): Fathers of "Hairy Belly Junior" (1Torchwood/2Fourways coalition). Matimba offspring ended up forming a breakaway because of the birmingham males.

Birmingham males era (2015-2018): In early 2018,  5-7 lionesses and 8-9 cubs were reported by MalaMala and wildearth, among other sources. In november 2018, 6 subadults (1 male + 6 females) were reported. The male, sired by B-Boys became Torchwood male/Osindile partner (Mongawane coalition).

"Kruger males" era (2020-2022): these were 2 unknown males. By early 2021, Malamala reported 7 adult females of unkown ages + 6 females 5 years old (BBoys daughters). January 2021 (GNS).docx During 2021-2022, 2 subadults males and up to 8 cubs were reported by based again on sightings made in malamala.

Mantimahle sons era (2023–2025): I don't know if Mantimhales made a take over killing the offspring of Kruger males, or some subadults of that generation survived. @KM600 do you know of a breakaway in torchwood pride?
In early 2024, 6 cubs were seen along with at least 6 adult females. February-2024.pdf
In february 2025: On the 13th, six lionesses and seven sub-adults were found near Two Toes Open Area along the Matshapiri River (...) one of which was in particularly bad condition due to her old age while the other showed partially healed wounds (...) On the 26th, the older lioness was south of Fred’s Tree and she was found dead east of Maurice’s Pan the next day.


Therefore, current pride is conformed of 4-5 lioness (at least some B-boys daughters I think, around 9 years old) and 7-9 subadults sired by 2 Mantimahle sons. The old female that passed away recently, probably was a Matimba daughter. I don't know if Mantimhales made a take over killing the offspring of Kruger males, or some subadults of that generation survived (a breakaway of the older females with subadults, for example).



Torchwood pride with a Birmingham male in 2017:

*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 08:29 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 02:22 AM)Kendra Wrote: I am trying to get an exact makeup of the numbers and ages of the members of the Torchwood Pride as of today.  Also, can anyone share any history of the pride, the fathers of the current cubs, and young males, and the background of the 4 adult lionesses?  Thanks so much

Mantimahle sons era (2023–2025): I don't know if Mantimhales made a take over killing the offspring of Kruger males, or some subadults of that generation survived. @KM600 do you know of a breakaway in torchwood pride?

The breakaway happened once Mantimahles started to take control, some lionesses stayed with the offspring of both Kruger Males, mostly made up of males from what I remember. Infact they are seen every few months around Nkorho. I don’t know what happened to those lionesses, maybe they recently rejoined the pride, just know there was infact a breakaway. 

A lot of ppl were at first confused as both Mantimahles and the remaining Kruger Male were seen with Torchwood Pride pretty much around the same time, but it become clear once Torchwood Pride had new cubs with Mantimahles that this was a different part of the pride that KM was hanging with. 

Mantimahles started pushing for Torchwood Pride around the same time KM was looking for newer opportunities with other prides, establishing himself more in the Northern parts of Sabi Sand, even towards Buffleshoek, before obviously losing out to Kambulas, hence why they then started to establish themselves more in Sabi Sands. 

As for if they killed any offspring of the Kruger Males, it’s possible as always, but I’ve never heard anything about it.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 03-13-2025

@FACR2212 these are the Torchwood males, sons of both Kruger males and at one point, part of Torchwood breakaway. Real good looking boys, some of my favourite I’ve seen in recent times. One of them has a broken front leg but he somehow makes it work, no doubt with the help of his two brothers. U can see his messed up front right leg in the photo, the middle male. They are normally seen on the S36 so quite a bit north from current Nkuhuma boys, or south east from Mantimahles. They were seen in January.





RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ttimemarti - 03-13-2025

I was told once before that the torchwood pride had 8 females sired by the Birmingham males 4 older females matimba daughters and another even older female and that was 2 years ago but from mala mala report it’s I think 6 Birmingham daughters 5 older females 2 of them not in good health… but I haven’t seen any Kruger male offspring I know it’s definitely a torchwood breakaway pride but just not sure who’s in that pride

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Guillermo94 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 09:37 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I was told once before that the torchwood pride had 8 females sired by the Birmingham males 4 older females matimba daughters and another even older female and that was 2 years ago but from mala mala report it’s I think 6 Birmingham daughters 5 older females 2 of them not in good health… but I haven’t seen any Kruger male offspring I know it’s definitely a torchwood breakaway pride but just not sure who’s in that pride

Interesting. Maybe nine Birmingham daughters? Eight Birmingham daughters two years ago must of been a lot of Torchwood lionesses. Like Kambula lionesses were six. Interesting maybe more lionesses than Kambula. 

Wondering Birmingham male lions spend more time with Torchwood after Kambula?

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Robot00 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 01:49 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: It was in Timbavati 8 months ago, I always remember it and quite impressed me how he stood his ground (and then fled). If it is him (hope so :)), excited to follow his journey in SS.




Is this before or after him joining guernsey male and the demise of the guernsey male?
(03-13-2025, 02:39 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 01:48 AM)KM600 Wrote: Ye Avoca male had the interaction described as above, the Monwana boys actually responded quicker than Mapoza to him.

Mapoza is his dad.
Damn, daddy couldn't recognize his son? Mapoza must have abandoned him long ago then

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 03-13-2025

(03-07-2025, 04:34 PM)KM600 Wrote: Any newer updates on those 2 S65 males that were in Gijima territory months ago, who looked crazy similar to Gijimas when they first come into Sabi Sands too? Guessing they are trying to establish themselves in KNP, I remember really liking them as an upcoming duo and wanted to follow their story.

Funnily enough I stumbled across an update of them late last night, if I can find the post again I'll link it below this. Were definitely still in KNP, but the exact area wasn't mentioned.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - DE_66 - 03-13-2025

(03-08-2025, 10:08 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(03-08-2025, 09:27 PM)Mapokser Wrote: About the Southern Pride, it's worth mentioned that we don't if the elder female was sired by 4ways or Charleston 

She was always refered as Fourways offspring, sister of SP Fourways young male.

I know her paternity can't be proven either way, but wasn't the timing suspect enough that she could very well be a Charleston daughter?  Kinda like referring to the Mbiri cub as Mandevu's offspring when it could be the Orpen Son's or ZigZag's or Mohawk's or some other male who slipped in.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - FACR2212 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 09:07 AM)KM600 Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 08:29 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 02:22 AM)Kendra Wrote: I am trying to get an exact makeup of the numbers and ages of the members of the Torchwood Pride as of today.  Also, can anyone share any history of the pride, the fathers of the current cubs, and young males, and the background of the 4 adult lionesses?  Thanks so much

Mantimahle sons era (2023–2025): I don't know if Mantimhales made a take over killing the offspring of Kruger males, or some subadults of that generation survived. @KM600 do you know of a breakaway in torchwood pride?

The breakaway happened once Mantimahles started to take control, some lionesses stayed with the offspring of both Kruger Males, mostly made up of males from what I remember. Infact they are seen every few months around Nkorho. I don’t know what happened to those lionesses, maybe they recently rejoined the pride, just know there was infact a breakaway. 

A lot of ppl were at first confused as both Mantimahles and the remaining Kruger Male were seen with Torchwood Pride pretty much around the same time, but it become clear once Torchwood Pride had new cubs with Mantimahles that this was a different part of the pride that KM was hanging with. 

Mantimahles started pushing for Torchwood Pride around the same time KM was looking for newer opportunities with other prides, establishing himself more in the Northern parts of Sabi Sand, even towards Buffleshoek, before obviously losing out to Kambulas, hence why they then started to establish themselves more in Sabi Sands. 

As for if they killed any offspring of the Kruger Males, it’s possible as always, but I’ve never heard anything about it.

Thank you for the info my friend.

Indeed those young males are very handsome, I wasn't aware of them, they have their father's look!

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 02:24 PM)DE_66 Wrote: I know her paternity can't be proven either way, but wasn't the timing suspect enough that she could very well be a Charleston daughter?  Kinda like referring to the Mbiri cub as Mandevu's offspring when it could be the Orpen Son's or ZigZag's or Mohawk's or some other male who slipped in.

I think Charlestons tookover in 2016, she was born in 2015.