(12-06-2024, 10:23 AM)Mwk85 Wrote: Would be great if she is indeed pregnant

(12-06-2024, 08:22 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I hope this doesn't come across as a random rant but while I know some people here aren't fond of talking about or debating the part of the dynamics involving the competition or possible competition between male lions, but damn, I'm glad WF exists because it is possibly the only place where such discussions happens in a healthy way.

In other places it's mostly "my lion beats your lion", or some similar nonsense and bias, never taking into consideration the implications here or basically nothing of value like "I hope coalition X is strong strong enough to hold on against coalition Y because they have lots of cubs" or "if lion X isn't strong enough to hold off the invaders, it won't be a bad thing, his cubs are independent already, new blood is welcome", it's just "my badass favorite lion is bigger and stronger than yours and beats him in a fight", never taking in consideration how these clashes usually plays out, thinking the lions would meet in the UFC and fight a brawl to the death, ignoring how complex even a 2v2 competition can play out in chasings and stuff.

Anyway, I felt like writing this after seeing many eye-rolling takes about current Sabi Sands male lions ( mainly due to Kambulas ), on how "all current male lions in Sabi Sands don't hold a candle to the legends of the past, Mapogo, Matimba, Majingilane, Birmingham..." yeah, I'm the first to point out the Kambulas are late to the game, but the fact aside that they aren't in any obligation of being be as strong as people want, this is just a stupid take, Gijima, PCM, Ndhzengas... Are probably all around the same same strength of the so called legends, probably just a little weaker than some and a little stronger than others.

Anyway again, I'm glad we can talk about these things with actual depth and without blind "my lion beats yours" bias here, I think it's a normal topic of discussion in the dynamics after all, male lion competition, and something even the guides entertain themselves talking about, but unfortunately, outside WF, you are better ignoring any such discussions.

(12-06-2024, 08:32 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:22 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I hope this doesn't come across as a random rant but while I know some people here aren't fond of talking about or debating the part of the dynamics involving the competition or possible competition between male lions, but damn, I'm glad WF exists because it is possibly the only place where such discussions happens in a healthy way.

In other places it's mostly "my lion beats your lion", or some similar nonsense and bias, never taking into consideration the implications here or basically nothing of value like "I hope coalition X is strong strong enough to hold on against coalition Y because they have lots of cubs" or "if lion X isn't strong enough to hold off the invaders, it won't be a bad thing, his cubs are independent already, new blood is welcome", it's just "my badass favorite lion is bigger and stronger than yours and beats him in a fight", never taking in consideration how these clashes usually plays out, thinking the lions would meet in the UFC and fight a brawl to the death, ignoring how complex even a 2v2 competition can play out in chasings and stuff.

Anyway, I felt like writing this after seeing many eye-rolling takes about current Sabi Sands male lions ( mainly due to Kambulas ), on how "all current male lions in Sabi Sands don't hold a candle to the legends of the past, Mapogo, Matimba, Majingilane, Birmingham..." yeah, I'm the first to point out the Kambulas are late to the game, but the fact aside that they aren't in any obligation of being be as strong as people want, this is just a stupid take, Gijima, PCM, Ndhzengas... Are probably all around the same same strength of the so called legends, probably just a little weaker than some and a little stronger than others.

Anyway again, I'm glad we can talk about these things with actual depth and without blind "my lion beats yours" bias here, I think it's a normal topic of discussion in the dynamics after all, male lion competition, and something even the guides entertain themselves talking about, but unfortunately, outside WF, you are better ignoring any such discussions.

My friend, thank you, so much for that, as we are so very happy to have all of the members of the WildFact community! @peter and @sanjay created something very special, when they created WildFact. They, along with all of the members of the Mod Team, are all incredible human beings, and they all do what they do out of love for these creatures, and their love for this community. I, myself, received a fantastic welcoming when I first started here, and at that time I knew, quite literally, nothing about the lions I came here to ask questions about. Not a lot has changed in that respect, but I have gotten to know everyone in this community, a community that means so much to me personally, and one that I am so proud to be a member of! I could go on and on, but this site, and more importantly the community that exists on it, really helped me through what will forever be the hardest period of my life, and I cannot tell you what that means. Not to mention the fact that, I visit the site, every day, and in doing so, am always excited to learn something new about these creatures we all feel so fondly about, and to interact with everyone here.

So, to you, @Mapokser, and every single other member of this community, I extend a heartfelt and sincere, thank you, to you all!

(12-06-2024, 05:50 PM)Ngonya Wrote: Snip Tail Nkuhlu after a fight with the Gijima males...
"Beaten and bruised, the result of an ill judged visit to the neighbouring dominant males' territory! The right side of his face was swollen, his eye largely closed and some bite marks and blood on his hind legs too."

*This image is copyright of its original author

by Flipside

(12-06-2024, 04:33 PM)sunless Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 04:12 PM)Guillermo94 Wrote: Thanks. Hopefully she can take her cubs. This lionesses was very good lionesses to her sister Gingerella. In the west with Gingerella, and plain camp male lions at almost eight years of age, and their daughters growing she would and hopefully will have a lot of support. Hopefully her cubs can be happy and grow. Only problem would be lionesses in the west now is Mahangenie, and Othowas. Hopefully Gingerella can help her.

Correct me If I am wrong but from what I can remember the older Ximunghwe lioness is not related to the Gingerella, is this true? Also with having an older lioness like the older Ximunghwe lioness (Selati's Daughter) is a plus for them as they have an experienced lioness and been more aggressive to other prides (Mangheni, Tsalala, Othawa and NK Breakaway) even though they only consist of 2 adult and 2 subadult. They are more or less the reason that some members of the said pride are deceased.

(12-06-2024, 08:37 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:32 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:22 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I hope this doesn't come across as a random rant but while I know some people here aren't fond of talking about or debating the part of the dynamics involving the competition or possible competition between male lions, but damn, I'm glad WF exists because it is possibly the only place where such discussions happens in a healthy way.

In other places it's mostly "my lion beats your lion", or some similar nonsense and bias, never taking into consideration the implications here or basically nothing of value like "I hope coalition X is strong strong enough to hold on against coalition Y because they have lots of cubs" or "if lion X isn't strong enough to hold off the invaders, it won't be a bad thing, his cubs are independent already, new blood is welcome", it's just "my badass favorite lion is bigger and stronger than yours and beats him in a fight", never taking in consideration how these clashes usually plays out, thinking the lions would meet in the UFC and fight a brawl to the death, ignoring how complex even a 2v2 competition can play out in chasings and stuff.

Anyway, I felt like writing this after seeing many eye-rolling takes about current Sabi Sands male lions ( mainly due to Kambulas ), on how "all current male lions in Sabi Sands don't hold a candle to the legends of the past, Mapogo, Matimba, Majingilane, Birmingham..." yeah, I'm the first to point out the Kambulas are late to the game, but the fact aside that they aren't in any obligation of being be as strong as people want, this is just a stupid take, Gijima, PCM, Ndhzengas... Are probably all around the same same strength of the so called legends, probably just a little weaker than some and a little stronger than others.

Anyway again, I'm glad we can talk about these things with actual depth and without blind "my lion beats yours" bias here, I think it's a normal topic of discussion in the dynamics after all, male lion competition, and something even the guides entertain themselves talking about, but unfortunately, outside WF, you are better ignoring any such discussions.

My friend, thank you, so much for that, as we are so very happy to have all of the members of the WildFact community! @peter and @sanjay created something very special, when they created WildFact. They, along with all of the members of the Mod Team, are all incredible human beings, and they all do what they do out of love for these creatures, and their love for this community. I, myself, received a fantastic welcoming when I first started here, and at that time I knew, quite literally, nothing about the lions I came here to ask questions about. Not a lot has changed in that respect, but I have gotten to know everyone in this community, a community that means so much to me personally, and one that I am so proud to be a member of! I could go on and on, but this site, and more importantly the community that exists on it, really helped me through what will forever be the hardest period of my life, and I cannot tell you what that means. Not to mention the fact that, I visit the site, every day, and in doing so, am always excited to learn something new about these creatures we all feel so fondly about, and to interact with everyone here.

So, to you, @Mapokser, and every single other member of this community, I extend a heartfelt and sincere, thank you, to you all!

Like the Twitter argument I am foolishly continuing with a person saying the Sabi Sand is greedy Aholes for not sending in vets to fix Snip Tail Nkhulu for wandering into Gijima territory.  I mean.. sure.. send in the vets, then he heals and he and his brothers all go in and kill the Gijimas and all the cubs... like.. people.. stop... Wild must be left as wild as possible.  No.. it's not perfect, no, we should not be anywhere near these animals, but good lord.  We interfere enough....

(12-06-2024, 08:58 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Idk why everybody thinks that Nkhulus will have the upper hand over Gijimas eventually.

Only 2 Nkhulus are at 100% , other 2 are unhealthy and not as confident, and 5th (6th) doesnt hang with them often.

In 2vs2 , Gijimas are massive favorites imo.

SnipTail and Smudge are formidable, but i think, because they where always part of big coalition, will lack teamplay and bond compared to duo like Gijimas.

I dont think Nkhulus will be able to oust Gijimas (unless Gijimas make fatal mistake) as 2 healthy Nkhulus dont have enough support (similar situation as with Kambulas and K4).

(12-06-2024, 08:37 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:32 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:22 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I hope this doesn't come across as a random rant but while I know some people here aren't fond of talking about or debating the part of the dynamics involving the competition or possible competition between male lions, but damn, I'm glad WF exists because it is possibly the only place where such discussions happens in a healthy way.

In other places it's mostly "my lion beats your lion", or some similar nonsense and bias, never taking into consideration the implications here or basically nothing of value like "I hope coalition X is strong strong enough to hold on against coalition Y because they have lots of cubs" or "if lion X isn't strong enough to hold off the invaders, it won't be a bad thing, his cubs are independent already, new blood is welcome", it's just "my badass favorite lion is bigger and stronger than yours and beats him in a fight", never taking in consideration how these clashes usually plays out, thinking the lions would meet in the UFC and fight a brawl to the death, ignoring how complex even a 2v2 competition can play out in chasings and stuff.

Anyway, I felt like writing this after seeing many eye-rolling takes about current Sabi Sands male lions ( mainly due to Kambulas ), on how "all current male lions in Sabi Sands don't hold a candle to the legends of the past, Mapogo, Matimba, Majingilane, Birmingham..." yeah, I'm the first to point out the Kambulas are late to the game, but the fact aside that they aren't in any obligation of being be as strong as people want, this is just a stupid take, Gijima, PCM, Ndhzengas... Are probably all around the same same strength of the so called legends, probably just a little weaker than some and a little stronger than others.

Anyway again, I'm glad we can talk about these things with actual depth and without blind "my lion beats yours" bias here, I think it's a normal topic of discussion in the dynamics after all, male lion competition, and something even the guides entertain themselves talking about, but unfortunately, outside WF, you are better ignoring any such discussions.

My friend, thank you, so much for that, as we are so very happy to have all of the members of the WildFact community! @peter and @sanjay created something very special, when they created WildFact. They, along with all of the members of the Mod Team, are all incredible human beings, and they all do what they do out of love for these creatures, and their love for this community. I, myself, received a fantastic welcoming when I first started here, and at that time I knew, quite literally, nothing about the lions I came here to ask questions about. Not a lot has changed in that respect, but I have gotten to know everyone in this community, a community that means so much to me personally, and one that I am so proud to be a member of! I could go on and on, but this site, and more importantly the community that exists on it, really helped me through what will forever be the hardest period of my life, and I cannot tell you what that means. Not to mention the fact that, I visit the site, every day, and in doing so, am always excited to learn something new about these creatures we all feel so fondly about, and to interact with everyone here.

So, to you, @Mapokser, and every single other member of this community, I extend a heartfelt and sincere, thank you, to you all!

Like the Twitter argument I am foolishly continuing with a person saying the Sabi Sand is greedy Aholes for not sending in vets to fix Snip Tail Nkhulu for wandering into Gijima territory.  I mean.. sure.. send in the vets, then he heals and he and his brothers all go in and kill the Gijimas and all the cubs... like.. people.. stop... Wild must be left as wild as possible.  No.. it's not perfect, no, we should not be anywhere near these animals, but good lord.  We interfere enough....

(12-06-2024, 04:33 PM)sunless Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 04:12 PM)Guillermo94 Wrote: Thanks. Hopefully she can take her cubs. This lionesses was very good lionesses to her sister Gingerella. In the west with Gingerella, and plain camp male lions at almost eight years of age, and their daughters growing she would and hopefully will have a lot of support. Hopefully her cubs can be happy and grow. Only problem would be lionesses in the west now is Mahangenie, and Othowas. Hopefully Gingerella can help her.

Correct me If I am wrong but from what I can remember the older Ximunghwe lioness is not related to the Gingerella, is this true? Also with having an older lioness like the older Ximunghwe lioness (Selati's Daughter) is a plus for them as they have an experienced lioness and been more aggressive to other prides (Mangheni, Tsalala, Othawa and NK Breakaway) even though they only consist of 2 adult and 2 subadult. They are more or less the reason that some members of the said pride are deceased.

(12-06-2024, 08:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 04:33 PM)sunless Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 04:12 PM)Guillermo94 Wrote: Thanks. Hopefully she can take her cubs. This lionesses was very good lionesses to her sister Gingerella. In the west with Gingerella, and plain camp male lions at almost eight years of age, and their daughters growing she would and hopefully will have a lot of support. Hopefully her cubs can be happy and grow. Only problem would be lionesses in the west now is Mahangenie, and Othowas. Hopefully Gingerella can help her.

Correct me If I am wrong but from what I can remember the older Ximunghwe lioness is not related to the Gingerella, is this true? Also with having an older lioness like the older Ximunghwe lioness (Selati's Daughter) is a plus for them as they have an experienced lioness and been more aggressive to other prides (Mangheni, Tsalala, Othawa and NK Breakaway) even though they only consist of 2 adult and 2 subadult. They are more or less the reason that some members of the said pride are deceased.

As @T_Ferguson mentioned, Gingerella came from the Othawa Pride, driven out with two sub brothers, when the Tumbelas took over the pride. The three of them went into Kruger, and Gingerella and the younger of the two brothers returned to Sabi Sands a while later, with the older brother having not been seen since. The younger brother disappeared not long after they returned to SS, and Gingerella eventually partnered up with the lone Ximungwe lioness, as the remain partners to this day. Their partnership appears to be a tight one, as when they happened upon Gingerella's own mother, Sassy, who, at that time, was herself the last remaining Othawa adult, along with 3 sub females, the two Ximungwes, attacked Sassy, and she eventually died of her wounds.

(12-06-2024, 08:53 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:37 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:32 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:22 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I hope this doesn't come across as a random rant but while I know some people here aren't fond of talking about or debating the part of the dynamics involving the competition or possible competition between male lions, but damn, I'm glad WF exists because it is possibly the only place where such discussions happens in a healthy way.

In other places it's mostly "my lion beats your lion", or some similar nonsense and bias, never taking into consideration the implications here or basically nothing of value like "I hope coalition X is strong strong enough to hold on against coalition Y because they have lots of cubs" or "if lion X isn't strong enough to hold off the invaders, it won't be a bad thing, his cubs are independent already, new blood is welcome", it's just "my badass favorite lion is bigger and stronger than yours and beats him in a fight", never taking in consideration how these clashes usually plays out, thinking the lions would meet in the UFC and fight a brawl to the death, ignoring how complex even a 2v2 competition can play out in chasings and stuff.

Anyway, I felt like writing this after seeing many eye-rolling takes about current Sabi Sands male lions ( mainly due to Kambulas ), on how "all current male lions in Sabi Sands don't hold a candle to the legends of the past, Mapogo, Matimba, Majingilane, Birmingham..." yeah, I'm the first to point out the Kambulas are late to the game, but the fact aside that they aren't in any obligation of being be as strong as people want, this is just a stupid take, Gijima, PCM, Ndhzengas... Are probably all around the same same strength of the so called legends, probably just a little weaker than some and a little stronger than others.

Anyway again, I'm glad we can talk about these things with actual depth and without blind "my lion beats yours" bias here, I think it's a normal topic of discussion in the dynamics after all, male lion competition, and something even the guides entertain themselves talking about, but unfortunately, outside WF, you are better ignoring any such discussions.

My friend, thank you, so much for that, as we are so very happy to have all of the members of the WildFact community! @peter and @sanjay created something very special, when they created WildFact. They, along with all of the members of the Mod Team, are all incredible human beings, and they all do what they do out of love for these creatures, and their love for this community. I, myself, received a fantastic welcoming when I first started here, and at that time I knew, quite literally, nothing about the lions I came here to ask questions about. Not a lot has changed in that respect, but I have gotten to know everyone in this community, a community that means so much to me personally, and one that I am so proud to be a member of! I could go on and on, but this site, and more importantly the community that exists on it, really helped me through what will forever be the hardest period of my life, and I cannot tell you what that means. Not to mention the fact that, I visit the site, every day, and in doing so, am always excited to learn something new about these creatures we all feel so fondly about, and to interact with everyone here.

So, to you, @Mapokser, and every single other member of this community, I extend a heartfelt and sincere, thank you, to you all!

Like the Twitter argument I am foolishly continuing with a person saying the Sabi Sand is greedy Aholes for not sending in vets to fix Snip Tail Nkhulu for wandering into Gijima territory.  I mean.. sure.. send in the vets, then he heals and he and his brothers all go in and kill the Gijimas and all the cubs... like.. people.. stop... Wild must be left as wild as possible.  No.. it's not perfect, no, we should not be anywhere near these animals, but good lord.  We interfere enough....

My friend, @peter, @sanjay, @T I N O, and all of the rest of the Team will tell you, I truly believe that WildFact is like an oasis, and we have the finest community on the web, I have said those very words to them countless times. In the beginning, I would interact with others, outside of WildFact, in discussing lions, and other forms of wildlife, and yes, it can get ugly really quick out there. So, now, I view posts and videos on other sites, but only interact about them here. This community is the finest, friendliest, and most knowledgeable community there is, and I truly feel that way.

(12-06-2024, 09:26 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 08:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 04:33 PM)sunless Wrote:

(12-06-2024, 04:12 PM)Guillermo94 Wrote: Thanks. Hopefully she can take her cubs. This lionesses was very good lionesses to her sister Gingerella. In the west with Gingerella, and plain camp male lions at almost eight years of age, and their daughters growing she would and hopefully will have a lot of support. Hopefully her cubs can be happy and grow. Only problem would be lionesses in the west now is Mahangenie, and Othowas. Hopefully Gingerella can help her.

Correct me If I am wrong but from what I can remember the older Ximunghwe lioness is not related to the Gingerella, is this true? Also with having an older lioness like the older Ximunghwe lioness (Selati's Daughter) is a plus for them as they have an experienced lioness and been more aggressive to other prides (Mangheni, Tsalala, Othawa and NK Breakaway) even though they only consist of 2 adult and 2 subadult. They are more or less the reason that some members of the said pride are deceased.

As @T_Ferguson mentioned, Gingerella came from the Othawa Pride, driven out with two sub brothers, when the Tumbelas took over the pride. The three of them went into Kruger, and Gingerella and the younger of the two brothers returned to Sabi Sands a while later, with the older brother having not been seen since. The younger brother disappeared not long after they returned to SS, and Gingerella eventually partnered up with the lone Ximungwe lioness, as the remain partners to this day. Their partnership appears to be a tight one, as when they happened upon Gingerella's own mother, Sassy, who, at that time, was herself the last remaining Othawa adult, along with 3 sub females, the two Ximungwes, attacked Sassy, and she eventually died of her wounds.

They were 4 total, Gingerella, her 2 littermates brothers and one bit older young male who IIRC was believed to be sired by Dark Mane Majingilane. Something likely happened to them in Kruger as they were seen split with Gingerella returning to Western Sector with one of his brothers (who perished) and the other two ended up staying in Kruger whatever happened to them there.

Wasn't Sassy actually put down as she was in a strange state and started behaving oddly around vehicles?

(12-06-2024, 08:58 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Idk why everybody thinks that Nkhulus will have the upper hand over Gijimas eventually.

Only 2 Nkhulus are at 100% , other 2 are unhealthy and not as confident, and 5th (6th) doesnt hang with them often.

In 2vs2 , Gijimas are massive favorites imo.

SnipTail and Smudge are formidable, but i think, because they where always part of big coalition, will lack teamplay and bond compared to duo like Gijimas.

I dont think Nkhulus will be able to oust Gijimas (unless Gijimas make fatal mistake) as 2 healthy Nkhulus dont have enough support (similar situation as with Kambulas and K4).