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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 10-29-2024

Damnnn, let’s hope it turns out to be just a rumour.





RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-29-2024

Dang.. If so then there isnt much hope for the third one either unless they flee.
Its also the third cub the PCmales lose in just a few days time. With one more still at risk of succombing to its wounds.

Not a good week for the lions in western sector.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 10-29-2024

In a Dream world Tsalala would find the Othawa girls (who it's worrying haven't been heard from either), and move south and hook up with k12 and raise a new pride.  In our sad reality, Tsalala likely won't ever get to raise any cubs to adulthood.  Sad

This sucks.  I am worried about the Othawa girls now too.

K12 I also am starting to think she believes she's a male lion.   Grin

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - afortich - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 05:36 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote: In a Dream world Tsalala would find the Othawa girls (who it's worrying haven't been heard from either), and move south and hook up with k12 and raise a new pride.  In our sad reality, Tsalala likely won't ever get to raise any cubs to adulthood.  Sad

This sucks.  I am worried about the Othawa girls now too.

K12 I also am starting to think she believes she's a male lion.   Grin

I know it's hard for Tsalala my friend but let's be optimistic, her mom was able to raise her. Maybe, she would be able to do the same.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 10-29-2024



RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Vengeous - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 03:28 AM)KM600 Wrote: Damnnn, let’s hope it turns out to be just a rumour.




I really doubt whether it was Makhunga's brother that killed the cub. It just makes no sense - all 3 would be dead by now if it were up to him. He's also been seen with Tsalala lioness and all 3 cubs without his brother (who was the one seen mating with her). I just think people are trying to find another lion as a reason for the cubs' demise (or worst still, play into the preposterous narrative that the PCMs are like the Mlowathi/Mapogo males), when it is EXTREMELY difficult to raise cubs on one's own. Tsalala lost siblings to leopards, it could well have been a leopard, or a hyena, or even an elephant (the rumour is that Ximungwe lost her cub to an elephant). This week we've heard the Southern Avoca blamed, the Kruger Male blamed, the NK Breakaways blamed, and now 1/2 PCM blamed. 

It's nice that WildFact treats these reports cautiously until there's further evidence, because it is utterly ridiculous how on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and other forums, people accept sensationalist rumours without any critical thought or reasoning. Whatever the reason, it is really really sad if Tsalala has lost another cub.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - sunless - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 05:36 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote: K12 I also am starting to think she believes she's a male lion.
Do not really know if this is credible but have seen some information that K12 mated with the Ndzengha Males.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 08:18 AM)Vengeous Wrote:
(10-29-2024, 03:28 AM)KM600 Wrote: Damnnn, let’s hope it turns out to be just a rumour.




I really doubt whether it was Makhunga's brother that killed the cub. It just makes no sense - all 3 would be dead by now if it were up to him. He's also been seen with Tsalala lioness and all 3 cubs without his brother (who was the one seen mating with her). I just think people are trying to find another lion as a reason for the cubs' demise (or worst still, play into the preposterous narrative that the PCMs are like the Mlowathi/Mapogo males), when it is EXTREMELY difficult to raise cubs on one's own. Tsalala lost siblings to leopards, it could well have been a leopard, or a hyena, or even an elephant (the rumour is that Ximungwe lost her cub to an elephant). This week we've heard the Southern Avoca blamed, the Kruger Male blamed, the NK Breakaways blamed, and now 1/2 PCM blamed. 

It's nice that WildFact treats these reports cautiously until there's further evidence, because it is utterly ridiculous how on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and other forums, people accept sensationalist rumours without any critical thought or reasoning. Whatever the reason, it is really really sad if Tsalala has lost another cub.

I agree, seems quite a while of wait for the other PCM to eventually kill a cub. The only thing that possibly supports that idea is the fact that I don’t think the other PCM has fully been around the cubs by himself, Makhunga has been there with him for all meetings, atleast up until now anyways. 

Regardless of how it died, IF it died, another PCM cub dead in the space of a week.. I don’t really have the energy rn to go into this but I think u all know what I’m trying to hint. No stability whatsoever.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Guillermo94 - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 08:28 AM)sunless Wrote:
(10-29-2024, 05:36 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote: K12 I also am starting to think she believes she's a male lion.
Do not really know if this is credible but have seen some information that K12 mated with the Ndzengha Males.

I wonder.  I think she liked the Styxt male lion. Liked seeing them together. I wonder if K12 was around the Kambula lionesses or the three Kambula lionesses.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 08:18 AM)Vengeous Wrote: He's also been seen with Tsalala lioness and all 3 cubs without his brother

This, no way thats true.

He was seen playing with all 3 cubs.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 08:29 AM)KM600 Wrote: The only thing that possibly supports that idea is the fact that I don’t think the other PCM has fully been around the cubs by himself, Makhunga has been there with him for all meetings, atleast up until now anyways. 

Not true, recently the other PCM was seen with them, playing with all 3 cubs.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-29-2024

Cub killing is something that does not  necessarily have to occur on day one. Sometimes the males condone them for a few days before killing them as they can change their mind, wait for a better opportunity or the cubs themselves give them a reason. So Its definitly possible, seeing how vague their claim over the pride was anyway. 

Though id still like to hear the arguments why they believe it was him and mot some other lion or culprid. As it it is still a pretty unlikely scenario.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Vengeous - 10-29-2024

(10-29-2024, 10:43 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(10-29-2024, 08:29 AM)KM600 Wrote: Regardless of how it died, IF it died, another PCM cub dead in the space of a week.. I don’t really have the energy rn to go into this but I think u all know what I’m trying to hint. No stability whatsoever.

Blaming PCMs is getting out of hand..now we are gona blame PCMs if leopard killed Tsalala cub?

Male lions duty is not to he 24/7 with the pride and guard cubs from every threat.

Recently they spend a lot of time with Ximhungwes and Tsalalas, as for Mhangenis, we know they dont hang with them for almost half a year now.

PCMs didnt lost 1 cub to rival/nomadic males.

I don't know that PCMs have NEVER lost a cub to rival/nomadic males, but I do want to make a point about the ways the PCMs have been regarded online.

I've found myself defending them on numerous occasions, because I don't exactly understand what the expectations of them are. They are male lions in their prime - they SHOULD be looking to reproduce as much as possible. And latching onto a single pride in the west doesn't make sense as each pride is just too small to satisfy this short window for them to make the most out of their prime. Now, bear in mind I think they overreached by attempting to take over the Nkuhuma pride. But I think pinning the blame on them for Tsalala's cubs' deaths because there's a lack of "stability" is bordering on ridiculous. There are fifty different ways that cub could have been lost, it's the African bush. This period of relative stability across the Western, Central, and Southern Sabi Sands has caused everyone to forget how difficult it is to raise cubs to adulthood, even without the threat of male lions.

By all means, criticise them for abandoning the Mangheni pride. I did feel angry when they gave up on visiting them. But their recent loss of a Mangheni cub 10 during the Ximungwe-Mangheni skirmish was not definitely preventable by them - a little knowledge of lion dynamics in the region shows that clashes between prides are regular and fierce, that's just the nature of a territory that has fences on three sides. And everyone is speculating so much about how Tsalala has lost her cubs without any discussion of what actually happened. And the default response is to blame the PCMs - oh the PCMs weren't there to drive the NK Breakaways away (which we don't even KNOW happened), or oh the PCM definitely killed one cub. The sad thing is that if a similar thing happened to any of the prides under the Gijimas or the Ndhzengas, I don't think the blame would be pinned on them. I do think the PCMs thus far have not been as vigilant as the two aforementioned coalitions, but please... this recurring attack on them is reaching absurd levels. This forum is surely better than that. 

If someone does prove that they killed the cub, then they deserve to be blamed. But until someone can conclusively prove this very unlikely scenario, I'm not sure why they are catching flak for this.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mwk85 - 10-29-2024

Southern Pride lioness and one of her daughters on a zebra kill. Said that she was contact calling for the others but they didn't see them.



RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 10-29-2024

I disagree, I have nothing against the PCMs but I’m not gonna let all these cubs start to disappear and each time just say ‘well these things happen.’ I’m not even necessarily saying the recent deaths from Tsalala Pride are on them, the stability part was just me speaking in general and one that most of us should agree with. 

With the Mhanegi Pride incident against the Kambulas we can for sure blame the PCMs, as it’s highly likely the Ndzengas were actually the ones to kill the cubs. Let’s not forget they were chased into Londolozi by Khanya and NK. Now are territorial disputes between prides common, yes, and they ofc lead to the loss of cubs / other pride members, but if a pride is getting pressured by two different sets of males and their own dominant / former dominant males aren’t there to help, how can we not put any blame on them.

As we know they abandoned Mhangenis to attempt a takeover of Nkuhuma Pride, a ridiculous takeover at that. Atleast one female gave birth to a single cub and another was also rumoured to but we never seen this cub, PCMs didn’t pay one visit to this cub as far as we know and yet it died pretty much as quick as it was born. Did it die through the fact it was already looking weak, and was rejected by its pride, or with the return of the Kambula 4, we don’t know. 

And then to top it off, u have the Mhangeni / Ximhungwe skirmish that PCMs clearly weren’t involved in and then possibly two separate instances which also led to Tsalala Pride losing cubs. 

All these instances and PCMs either arrived late after a cub was already lost or didn’t arrive at all. I have nothing against the PCMs, I think they’re great pride males to Ximhungwes and I wanted them to takeover Nkuhuma Pride after raising Mhangenis if it was still free for the taking.