Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version +- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum) +-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section) +--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals) +---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats) +----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion) +----- Thread: Lions of Sabi Sands (/topic-lions-of-sabi-sands) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
543
544
545
546
547
548
549
550
551
552
553
554
555
556
557
558
559
560
561
562
563
564
565
566
567
568
569
570
571
572
573
574
575
576
577
578
579
580
581
582
583
584
585
586
587
588
589
590
591
592
593
594
595
596
597
598
599
600
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613
614
615
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625
626
627
628
629
630
631
632
633
634
635
636
637
638
639
640
641
642
643
644
645
646
647
648
649
650
651
652
653
654
655
656
657
658
659
660
661
662
663
664
665
666
667
668
669
670
671
672
673
674
675
676
677
678
679
680
681
682
683
684
685
686
687
688
689
690
691
692
693
694
695
696
697
698
699
700
701
702
703
704
705
706
707
708
709
710
711
712
713
714
715
716
717
718
719
720
721
722
723
724
725
726
727
728
729
730
731
732
733
734
735
736
737
738
739
740
741
742
743
744
745
746
747
748
749
750
751
752
753
754
755
756
757
758
759
760
761
762
763
764
765
766
767
768
769
770
771
772
773
774
775
776
777
778
779
780
781
782
783
784
785
786
787
788
789
790
791
792
793
794
795
796
797
798
799
800
801
802
803
804
805
806
807
808
809
810
811
812
813
814
815
816
817
818
819
820
821
822
823
824
825
826
827
828
829
830
831
832
833
834
835
836
837
838
839
840
841
842
843
844
845
846
847
848
849
850
851
852
853
854
855
856
857
858
859
860
861
862
863
864
865
866
867
868
869
870
871
872
873
874
875
876
877
878
879
880
881
882
883
884
885
886
887
888
889
890
891
892
893
894
895
896
897
898
899
900
901
902
903
904
905
906
907
908
909
910
911
912
913
914
915
916
917
918
919
920
921
922
923
924
925
926
927
928
929
930
931
932
933
934
935
936
937
938
939
940
941
942
943
944
945
946
947
948
949
950
951
952
953
954
955
956
957
958
959
960
961
962
963
964
965
966
967
968
969
970
971
972
973
974
975
976
977
978
979
980
981
982
983
984
985
986
987
988
989
990
991
992
993
994
995
996
997
998
999
1000
1001
1002
1003
1004
1005
1006
1007
1008
1009
1010
1011
1012
1013
1014
1015
1016
1017
1018
1019
1020
1021
1022
1023
1024
1025
1026
1027
1028
1029
1030
1031
1032
1033
1034
1035
1036
1037
1038
1039
1040
1041
1042
1043
1044
1045
1046
1047
1048
1049
1050
1051
1052
1053
1054
1055
1056
1057
1058
1059
1060
1061
1062
1063
1064
1065
1066
1067
1068
1069
1070
1071
1072
1073
1074
1075
1076
1077
1078
1079
1080
1081
1082
1083
1084
1085
1086
1087
1088
1089
1090
1091
1092
1093
1094
1095
1096
1097
1098
1099
1100
1101
1102
1103
1104
1105
1106
1107
1108
1109
1110
1111
1112
1113
1114
1115
1116
1117
1118
1119
1120
1121
1122
1123
1124
1125
1126
1127
1128
1129
1130
1131
1132
1133
1134
1135
1136
1137
1138
1139
1140
1141
1142
1143
1144
1145
1146
1147
1148
1149
1150
1151
1152
1153
1154
1155
1156
1157
1158
1159
1160
1161
1162
|
RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 10-24-2024 (10-24-2024, 11:32 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I think its more likely that 2 males recongize them, mostly by location, which is their natal area where they grow up, so they prob know, this is prob our natal pride.According to some MalaMala reports, Rollercoaster males used to tolerate and somewhat recognize their sisters back in the day. Its a confusing matter no doubts, and we will likely never know for sure how it works. But by looks seems unlikely, they are almost completely different males now compared to what they were when leaving the pride. And the scent... Im not sure if each individual has a scent? They are all time covered in buffalo dunk, or in blood, or whatever. As we know they are both back north and it seems like K3 was with a lioness yesterday. He had some blood on his face and was said to have been beaten by one of his bros, definitly for mating right. His face had quite "alot" of blood coming down from his forehead but well, he got with the lady! RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 10-24-2024 This conversation is precisely the reason I would be so interested in seeing an interaction between the NB Subs and the PCMs. We have not seen them have any level of interaction since before their mother perished, but, we are only able to witness 1-2% of these cats lives, so there may well have been interactions we did not see, in fact it is likely. A lions ability to recognize other lions from their past has always been interesting to me, since we know so little on if they are able to at all, or not. As such, we are left making assumptions to fill in the enormous gaps for the rest of it. Unfortunately, this means there can be any number of plausible explanations for any of the actions we are fortunate enough to witness, leading us to often disagree amongst ourselves as to the reasons behind something we've seen, when in all honesty it is often anyone's guess as to why something happens or doesn't, and at the end of the day we might all be incorrect in our assumptions over a given occurrence. What I might see as a clear example of something particular, someone else is likely to see something entirely different. For myself, I believe the unknowing is the very essence of why I follow these creatures so closely, and a big part of why I love this community so much, and reading everyone's takes over a certain situation. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 10-24-2024 (10-24-2024, 04:55 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote:(10-24-2024, 02:14 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(10-24-2024, 12:56 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote:(10-23-2024, 10:37 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(10-23-2024, 09:48 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I think NK Breakaways could have attacked Tsalala and PCM attacked S.Avoca & Kruger male at the same time. We never cease being amazed by these cats. The biggest eye opening moment for me, the moment I realized that there is so much more to them, that they are very complex creatures, capable of forethought and not just simple minded automatons acting on instinct, was when I saw Fang attempt to draw a physical response from Ololashe <sp?> and Kijana. It seemed to me, quite clearly, that Fang knew he was in a really bad situation, and the only way out was to try and join the two lions to whom he was being force to be submissive. So, his response was to fake biting Ololashe, a much larger and younger male (he was absolutely enormous), trying to draw a physical response (a smack or a bite) from him. The comments of the guide who was filming, in that very video and one they released the next day, said that in fact it seems to have worked, and that they permitted him to join them. So, I believe the reasons these cats have for taking any action are far more complex than we might believe. Sadly, this is the Mara, where this interaction occurred, and all three of those cats disappeared right after that interaction. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - MrLoesoe - 10-25-2024 (10-23-2024, 03:27 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: @MrLoesoe that pride in Djuma I think it could actually be Nharus to be honest, seems unusual for them to venture so far out of their territory but that male does look to be the Red Road son with the droopy jaw, very similar appearance and mane development etc. You are right! This is, indeed, the Nharu pride, with the young "crooked mouth" male. So Nharus are in Djuma (20 October)! Very interesting! I do wonder if their pride male, Red Road, is with them. He has not been sighted with them (only alone) for some time now. So I don't think so. If he is, then trouble may arise, since there's lots of males in the north. Then next question is why Nharus are venturing all the way into Sabi Sands... and possibly it's not a coincidence that the young male is still with the pride. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Rui Ferreira - 10-25-2024 (10-25-2024, 01:10 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote:The Talamati pride left a hole in that region between Manyeleti and SSands(10-23-2024, 03:27 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: @MrLoesoe that pride in Djuma I think it could actually be Nharus to be honest, seems unusual for them to venture so far out of their territory but that male does look to be the Red Road son with the droopy jaw, very similar appearance and mane development etc. Wouldnt be suprised if the nearby prides are taking advantage of that because theres no danger in a clash with other lion pride RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 10-25-2024 I’ve actually been quite excited to see a new pride enter Northern Sabi Sands and hopefully make a home for themselves permanently. I’d rather it be an unknown group of individuals from KNP rather than a Manyeleti Pride, as they are already quite known. Anyways, no matter the pride, it’d be cool. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Rui Ferreira - 10-25-2024 (10-25-2024, 02:22 AM)KM600le Wrote: I’ve actually been quite excited to see a new pride enter Northern Sabi Sands and hopefully make a home for themselves permanently. I’d rather it be an unknown group of individuals from KNP rather than a Manyeleti Pride, as they are already quite known. Anyways, no matter the pride, it’d be cool. So far its almost perfect for Tiyelele to raise cubs from the Kambulas, if they were able to stay still and pretty in north, maybe if she is lucky she might be able to rebuilt a pride, She did good with the sub adults but S8 death was just the last straw I feel like, maybe with stability she can do it like the southern pride lioness Torchwood Breakaway would be very cool K12 could also do well there since she has an ideia of the area and might join Tiyelele ( If thats the case maybe Matimhales/Styx/Torchwood or even Hamilton males would be ideal , because you know we dont want double grandsons of the Birminghams I mean we might get that from the Nkuhumas but still) Somewhat unrelated to that , but I think it can lead to the main topic of the conversation How far do you guys see a Kambula pride Breakaway from happening, it seems as the 13 subs are growing the mouths are getting harder and harder to feed, for them , for the adult females and if Ndhzengas join, even a buffalo doesnt last long Could that be a reality? RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Guillermo94 - 10-25-2024 (10-25-2024, 02:44 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:A breakaway. It is the same as the Birmingham male lions. The last two Birmingham male lions had sub adults and cubs. A break away did not happen until other male lions came. The Ndhzenga male lions look healthy and strong. I think right now the sub adults could still be around; the Ndhzenga male lions are 9 years of age they are still very strong and healthy. I think like the four Kambula male lions the Nukhulus will hopefully will get confident they have been looking healthy and stronger. They were around the Kambulas once. Speaking of the Kambulas subadults are growing. Could the Ndhzenga male lions have more cubs with the Kambulas ? They have been doing good.(10-25-2024, 02:22 AM)KM600le Wrote: I’ve actually been quite excited to see a new pride enter Northern Sabi Sands and hopefully make a home for themselves permanently. I’d rather it be an unknown group of individuals from KNP rather than a Manyeleti Pride, as they are already quite known. Anyways, no matter the pride, it’d be cool. I was thinking maybe one day the Plain Camp male lions would come, but the Plain camp male lions will also be getting older around the four Kambula male lions and Nukhukus and the strong Gijima male lions. If the Nukhulus get confident if they go to Gijimas or the Kambulas; the Gijimas might end up around Kambulas. NdZhengas male lions are still in their prime and they are still strong and healthy I do not see any other male lions changing them off. Lions that can are not strong enough and confident enough. Four Kambula male lions maybe getting in their prime in a few years and the Nukhulus maybe be if they are healthy before the four Kambula male lions, but the Ndhzenga would be out of their prime. Like the Birminghams male lion they might have more cubs I wonder if they will start to have more cubs now. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 10-25-2024 (10-25-2024, 02:44 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:(10-25-2024, 02:22 AM)KM600le Wrote: I’ve actually been quite excited to see a new pride enter Northern Sabi Sands and hopefully make a home for themselves permanently. I’d rather it be an unknown group of individuals from KNP rather than a Manyeleti Pride, as they are already quite known. Anyways, no matter the pride, it’d be cool. I’ve also wanted Tinyelele to build up Talamati Pride again, but as a lone lioness she just simply won’t be able to stop other prides from entering and settling down. There’s still enough territory for another pride even if she was to have cubs anyways. Interesting that two of the biggest prides in Sabi Sands, in terms of adult lionesses, being both Kambula and Nkuhumas, could form breakaways very soon. Another Nkuhuma breakaway would most likely just claim their own territory in Northern Sabi Sands but a Kambula breakaway could technically claim Londolozi. I’d like to see another pride make Londolozi their primary home. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 10-25-2024 Londolozi, the week in pictures (August 21) At least 2 Nkuhlu males at a giraffe carcass at Monzo Sheet Erosion, Londolozi *This image is copyright of its original author Sean zeederberg
RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - adamstocks16 - 10-26-2024 Nkhulus pushing into Londolozi? RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 10-26-2024 (10-26-2024, 01:12 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: Nkhulus pushing into Londolozi?this picture was actually taken during their bold entrance in Ndzhenga territory back in August 21, shortly after they were pushed back south. The same sighting. Oldest Nkuhlu brothers at the giraffe carcass RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 10-27-2024 Some info on the 'new lions' at Londolozi The Nkuhlu Males: Two young and ambitious lions venture into Ndzhenga territory to claim a share of a giraffe carcass. The Nomads: The Southern Avoca and Kruger Males, past their prime, have formed an alliance for survival, using their bond to navigate life on the fringes. The Return of the Ntsevu Males: Once roaming far to the north, three of the four Ntsevu Males make a grand reappearance in the southern grasslands, looking as strong and regal as ever. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 10-27-2024 Alrighty then. I am still shocked at how many just random Male lions are in Sabi Sand doing seemingly whatever they want. Interesting placement though with all the hubub lately. RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-27-2024 (10-27-2024, 04:46 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: Alrighty then. I am still shocked at how many just random Male lions are in Sabi Sand doing seemingly whatever they want. Interesting placement though with all the hubub lately. This wont end well for them im afraid. |