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+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+--- Thread: Skulls, Skeletons, Canines & Claws (/topic-skulls-skeletons-canines-claws)
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RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 10-14-2018
(10-14-2018, 04:31 PM)paul cooper Wrote: Where do you even get all this?
Private collection
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 10-22-2018
Cave lion
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - epaiva - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 02:44 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Cave lion
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Great tooth very nice
RE: Huge tiger skulls - johnny rex - 10-23-2018
[attachment=1517]
There is a large Siberian tiger skull in a German taxidermy page on Facebook. I'm asking him through PM on Facebook about the measurements of the skull, but unfortunately he declined saying it is for sale only.
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 10-27-2018
African lion
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Huge tiger skulls - johnny rex - 11-22-2018
[attachment=1552]
[attachment=1553]
http://skullbase.info/skulls/mammals/lion.php
Pictures above showing a skull of an average wild adult male lion from Tanzania.
Pictures below showing a skull of a captive adult male tiger which is also an average-sized skull, but not sure which specimen of tiger.
[attachment=1554]
[attachment=1555]
http://skullbase.info/skulls/mammals/tiger.php
What amazes me is the width of the tiger skull in relation to its length. The lion skull is longer than the tiger skull, but the tiger skull is much wider than the lion skull. Imagine if there are 16-inches tiger skulls out there with similar skull configuration like this tiger skull, its width must be great.
RE: Huge tiger skulls - peter - 11-22-2018
(10-23-2018, 04:24 PM)johnny rex Wrote: There is a large Siberian tiger skull in a German taxidermy page on Facebook. I'm asking him through PM on Facebook about the measurements of the skull, but unfortunately he declined saying it is for sale only.
AMUR TIGER SKULL
Big cat skulls can't be sold or bought over here. Germany could be different. Anyhow.
A real big cat skull isn't cheap, especially when it's undamaged and large. Tell him potential buyers would be interested in measurements and a bit of history before getting to a decision. They also want to see better pictures, if possible with a scale.
HUNGARIAN NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM
I saw the photographs some weeks ago. The remarkable difference in zygomatic width between the skull of the male lion and the male tiger most probably is a result of upbringing: the lion skull belonged to a wild male, whereas the tiger was born and bred in captivity. It's well known that skulls of big cats born and bred in captivity often are significantly wider than those of their wild relatives.
Compared to skulls of wild lions and tigers, skulls of their captive relatives, apart from a few exceptions, also are less elevated and not as muscular and dense. For this reason, one would expect the skull of the wild male lion to be heavier than the skull of the captive male tiger. It was. The difference in length (369 mm. vs. 344 mm.) no doubt has an effect, but my guess is the difference in weight is a result of status foremost. When comparing skulls, one always has to distinguish between skulls of wild and captive big cats.
I have seen average-sized skulls of wild male Javan tigers significantly heavier than larger skulls of captive male Indian tigers. In lions, the difference between skulls of captive and wild males usually is less pronounced. For some reason, skulls of captive male lions often have a lot of superfluous growths. It's also seen in skulls of captive tigers (see the photograph), but not as pronounced. Not seldom, skulls of captive big cats are asymmetrical as well.
LION AND TIGER SKULLS
In general, skulls of tigers are a bit shorter and more rounded than skulls of lions. Mandibles of lions often are longer and somewhat convex (but not always in skulls of captive lions). They also have a wider os frontalis, a longer and more elevated snout and a larger pm4. Tigers often have (relatively) wider rostrums and longer and (relatively) heavier upper canines.
AMUR TIGER SKULLS
Skulls of captive male Amur tigers often are a bit longer and more elevated than skulls of captive male Indian tigers, but skulls of captive male Indian tigers often are wider, more robust and a bit heavier.
Captive male Amur tigers have the longest upper canines of all big cats. Same for wild male Amur tigers, so it seems. The owner of this skull was poached:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Huge tiger skulls - johnny rex - 11-22-2018
(11-22-2018, 07:20 PM)peter Wrote:(10-23-2018, 04:24 PM)johnny rex Wrote: There is a large Siberian tiger skull in a German taxidermy page on Facebook. I'm asking him through PM on Facebook about the measurements of the skull, but unfortunately he declined saying it is for sale only.
AMUR TIGER SKULL
Big cat skulls can't be sold or bought over here. Germany could be different. Anyhow.
A real big cat skull isn't cheap, especially when it's undamaged and large. Tell him potential buyers would be interested in measurements and a bit of history before getting to a decision. They also want to see better pictures, if possible with a scale.
HUNGARIAN NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM
I saw the photographs some weeks ago. The remarkable difference in zygomatic width between the skull of the male lion and the male tiger most probably is a result of upbringing: the lion skull belonged to a wild male, whereas the tiger was born and bred in captivity. It's well known that skulls of big cats born and bred in captivity often are significantly wider than those of their wild relatives.
Compared to skulls of wild lions and tigers, skulls of their captive relatives, apart from a few exceptions, also are less elevated and not as muscular and dense. For this reason, one would expect the skull of the wild male lion to be heavier than the skull of the captive male tiger. It was. The difference in length (369 mm. vs. 344 mm.) no doubt has an effect, but my guess is the difference in weight is a result of status foremost. When comparing skulls, one always has to distinguish between skulls of wild and captive big cats.
I have seen average-sized skulls of wild male Javan tigers significantly heavier than larger skulls of captive male Indian tigers. In lions, the difference between skulls of captive and wild males usually is less pronounced. For some reason, skulls of captive male lions often have a lot of superfluous growths. It's also seen in skulls of captive tigers (see the photograph), but not as pronounced. Not seldom, skulls of captive big cats are asymmetrical as well.
In general, skulls of tigers are a bit shorter and more rounded than skulls of lions. Mandibles of lions often are longer and somewhat convex (but not always in skulls of captive lions). They also have a wider os frontalis, a longer and more elevated snout and a larger pm4. Tigers often have (relatively) wider rostrums and longer and (relatively) heavier upper canines.
Skulls of captive Amur tigers often are longer and more elevated than skulls of captive Indian tigers, but Indian tigers often have wider and more robust skulls. Adult male Amur tigers have the longest upper canines of all big cats. Same for wild male Amur tigers. The owner of this skull was poached:
*This image is copyright of its original author
I've already PM'd him for more details but there is still no further responses from him. If you can converse in German, I think you'll be able to get more details about the old male Siberian tiger skull that he possessed.
I made my own conclusion about the largest modern Panthera skulls after seeing the nearly 17 inches long Lionzilla skull with 11.5 inches width and 15.75 inches long captive tiger skull with the same width as Lionzilla skull, I assumed the largest modern lion/tiger skulls both measured around 17 inches in maximum length and around 12 inches in maximum width. Even the liger skull that was posted somewhere in this forum before is a little bit wider than the current largest Panthera atrox skull, albeit shorter than the largest Panthera atrox skull. Not sure if the liger skull is of the same height as the largest Panthera atrox skull though.
RE: Huge tiger skulls - tigerluver - 11-22-2018
These exceptional skulls may well be a case of feline acromegaly and I’m quite interested in the disease. Are there any photos of the post cranial remains or the living specimen of skulls such as Lionzilla?
Altai and the Duisburg specimen clearly have large heads for their bodies. To diagnose acromegaly we’d need a few more things such as paw growth and oragnomegaly.
RE: Huge tiger skulls - johnny rex - 11-22-2018
(11-22-2018, 09:25 PM)tigerluver Wrote: These exceptional skulls may well be a case of feline acromegaly and I’m quite interested in the disease. Are there any photos of the post cranial remains or the living specimen of skulls such as Lionzilla?
Altai and the Duisburg specimen clearly have large heads for their bodies. To diagnose acromegaly we’d need a few more things such as paw growth and organimegaly.
I have posted pictures of Lionzilla with size measurements of it in the Edge Of Extinction Lion section
RE: Huge tiger skulls - johnny rex - 11-22-2018
(11-22-2018, 09:25 PM)tigerluver Wrote: These exceptional skulls may well be a case of feline acromegaly and I’m quite interested in the disease. Are there any photos of the post cranial remains or the living specimen of skulls such as Lionzilla?
Altai and the Duisburg specimen clearly have large heads for their bodies. To diagnose acromegaly we’d need a few more things such as paw growth and oragnomegaly.
About Altai's skull, I still have doubt about the size estimation of its skull using pictures because the scale is below the skull. It will be accurate if the scale is on top of the skull though.The only way to determine the real size of the skull is to measure it ourselves or contacting the current owner of the skull.
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - epaiva - 11-27-2018
(01-17-2018, 10:58 PM)TheLioness Wrote: Lion canines measured on immobilized wild lions.
*This image is copyright of its original author
@TheLioness
Thanks a lot for your valuable information, where did they measure those Lions?
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - Pckts - 11-27-2018
(11-27-2018, 02:19 AM)epaiva Wrote:Here you go https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-desert-lions?page=5 , post # 63(01-17-2018, 10:58 PM)TheLioness Wrote: Lion canines measured on immobilized wild lions.
*This image is copyright of its original author
@TheLioness
Thanks a lot for your valuable information, where did they measure those Lions?
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - epaiva - 11-27-2018
(11-27-2018, 02:25 AM)Pckts Wrote:@"packts"(11-27-2018, 02:19 AM)epaiva Wrote:Here you go https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-desert-lions?page=5 , post # 63(01-17-2018, 10:58 PM)TheLioness Wrote: Lion canines measured on immobilized wild lions.
*This image is copyright of its original author
@TheLioness
Thanks a lot for your valuable information, where did they measure those Lions?
Thanks a lot my Friend
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 11-28-2018
Tiger claw
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author