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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-21-2024

Concidering the Tsalala lioness is also mentioned to be wounded, its more likely the unknown lions found the little pride first and the commotion then attracted the PCmales.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-21-2024

Without further info it could be almost anyone who occasionally roams there.

From the beginning it was very unlikely that all 3 cubs would survive those few early months, when they are most vulnerable, as sooner or later they will bump into other lions.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 10-21-2024

So many questions on the incident with the Kambulas and Kruger Male, such as, like @Tr1x24 mentioned, where is S Avoca? So far, in their extended time as nomads, the K4s only seem interested in driving away pride males, then following a brief foray with the females, leaving, and in doing so, leaving all of these prides unprotected and vulnerable.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-21-2024

Well, I feel Skorro can be ruled out  they mentioned multiple males. 

Apparently it is known who the two males are. But this information is not shared for some reason..

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 10-21-2024

Nkuhuma and Khanya, perhaps? Certainly not Nkuhuma's first such incident.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-21-2024

Who are these, Kambulas? (Cheetah Plains shared)

Credits: beccaden


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 10-21-2024

I think if it was Talamati and NK, all cubs and maybe even Tsalala would be dead, they are very strong males and NK has a history of killing adult females and subadults.

Tumbela is the most unlikely I'd say.

IMO Kruger male and Avoca seems to be the most likely culprits since S.Avoca isn't seen since Savanna shared a vid of him and Kruger male in the West a few days ago, then Kruger male was seen alone in the north and then with BDM and NK pride.

S.Avoca is retired and mostly tolerated the Mangheni cubs, maybe reason why only one cub died.

But it could have been the 2 Kambulas that are in the North, though again if it were them, would only 1 cub be alive? They are the most territorial of any of these males, and probably killed the Talamati subs months ago.

Also, would they so confidently chase Kruger and BDM off just days after being chased off by PCM?

Anyway, maybe news of who the culprits were will be eventually shared, or possibly we'll realize PCM caught the S.Avoca.

But regardless of who the culprits are, if PCM managed to save the pride from annihilation, they deserve the praise. I can't even "blame" them for losing one cub here since they apparently acted way faster than I could have expected.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 10-21-2024

(10-21-2024, 10:08 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I think if it was Talamati and NK, all cubs and maybe even Tsalala would be dead, they are very strong males and NK has a history of killing adult females and subadults.

Tumbela is the most unlikely I'd say.

IMO Kruger male and Avoca seems to be the most likely culprits since S.Avoca isn't seen since Savanna shared a vid of him and Kruger male in the West a few days ago, then Kruger male was seen alone in the north and then with BDM and NK pride.

S.Avoca is retired and mostly tolerated the Mangheni cubs, maybe reason why only one cub died.

But it could have been the 2 Kambulas that are not in the North, though again if it were them, would only 1 cub be alive? They are the most territorial of any of these males, and probably killed the Talamati subs months ago.

Also, would they so confidently chase Kruger and BDM off just days after being chased off by PCM?

Anyway, maybe news of who the culprits were will be eventually shared, or possibly we'll realize PCM caught the S.Avoca.

But regardless of who the culprits are, if PCM managed to save the pride from annihilation, they deserve the praise. I can't even "blame" them from losing one cub here since they apparently acted way faster than I could have expected.

Uggh.. you just gave me a terrible thought.  I'd been curious about the Kruger male being seen today without the S. Avoca.  And both of them were together near enough to here last week, and if this did happen on Thursday then ... sigh.  It's possible the S. Avoca could have been caught.  I guess we're going to have to wait and see what transpires.  It's a shame.  So many rogue Males, and the PCM's and the 4 Kambula's have left such a mess through this area.  It would suck if this was what got the S. Avoca, but it's possible he's been trying for a warrior's ending all along.  He just kept poking his nose in places that you were shocked he got away with it.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 10-21-2024

(10-21-2024, 10:24 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote:
(10-21-2024, 10:08 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I think if it was Talamati and NK, all cubs and maybe even Tsalala would be dead, they are very strong males and NK has a history of killing adult females and subadults.

Tumbela is the most unlikely I'd say.

IMO Kruger male and Avoca seems to be the most likely culprits since S.Avoca isn't seen since Savanna shared a vid of him and Kruger male in the West a few days ago, then Kruger male was seen alone in the north and then with BDM and NK pride.

S.Avoca is retired and mostly tolerated the Mangheni cubs, maybe reason why only one cub died.

But it could have been the 2 Kambulas that are not in the North, though again if it were them, would only 1 cub be alive? They are the most territorial of any of these males, and probably killed the Talamati subs months ago.

Also, would they so confidently chase Kruger and BDM off just days after being chased off by PCM?

Anyway, maybe news of who the culprits were will be eventually shared, or possibly we'll realize PCM caught the S.Avoca.

But regardless of who the culprits are, if PCM managed to save the pride from annihilation, they deserve the praise. I can't even "blame" them from losing one cub here since they apparently acted way faster than I could have expected.

Uggh.. you just gave me a terrible thought.  I'd been curious about the Kruger male being seen today without the S. Avoca.  And both of them were together near enough to here last week, and if this did happen on Thursday then ... sigh.  It's possible the S. Avoca could have been caught.  I guess we're going to have to wait and see what transpires.  It's a shame.  So many rogue Males, and the PCM's and the 4 Kambula's have left such a mess through this area.  It would suck if this was what got the S. Avoca, but it's possible he's been trying for a warrior's ending all along.  He just kept poking his nose in places that you were shocked he got away with it.

Same, exact, thought crossed my mind, unfortunately. His absence, and now we hear of some clash with the PCMs, and KM being on that elephant alone is very concerning, for me.

@Mapokser 

I agree, until we have seen it, and to this point we have only seen the opposite, repeatedly, I do not believe that Skorro Jr is involved in the harming of any cubs. Not at this stage in his life, or, if I am to be fully honest, ever, as we have never seen such behavior from him, and he has been in the presence of other's cubs numerous times over the years. Not saying it is impossible, but it certainly would be surprising to me, if it happened.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-21-2024

This was quite a serious fight. I would not rule out that Tsalala and her cubs would have been killed had the PCmales not intervened. So NKuhuma and Talamati cannot be ruled out on the idea that the lioness and two cubs survived in my opinion. 

Tumbella can safely be ruled out. The chance of him suddenly forming a coalition and becoming brave enough to attack prides outside his roaming area this fast is pretty much nhil.

The Kambullas are also a possibility. However as the Kruger and Avoca male havent been seen together since this fight, of the three groups. They are most likely the culprit as they are the only group currently showing any signs that anything happened with them. 

I am not that worried about the Avoca. It seems the fight was witnessed so if he was killed or seriously injured it would probably have been reported. Nor does the PCmales seem to have serious wounds on them in their recent sighting with the Ximhungwes. Though while a Nhenha scenario cannot be ruled out, its far more likely he was only separated and keeping his head low to avoid another beating.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 10-21-2024

(10-21-2024, 09:18 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Who are these, Kambulas? (Cheetah Plains shared)
seems like them. I remember one of the young members of the pride lost an eye. Perhaps a young male like in these pictures but i dont really recall, was a cub. 

Perhaps the pride the Mantimahles control?

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-21-2024

(10-21-2024, 11:08 PM)Ngonya Wrote: seems like them. I remember one of the young members of the pride lost an eye. Perhaps a young male like in these pictures but i dont really recall, was a cub. 

Perhaps the pride the Mantimahles control?

Idk, yes either Torchwoods or Kambulas, subs should be around the same age of these 2 prides.

I think someone might recognize those lionesses if they are Kambulas.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - MrLoesoe - 10-21-2024

(10-20-2024, 11:36 PM)sunless Wrote: Nharu Pride (told by the guide) is in southern part of Djuma near Treehouse Dam and killed a buffalo.
It consist of 6 female and 1 young male.
But some are suggesting Imbali Pride or Torchwood Pride.





I doubt these are the Nharus. It's way out of their territory, which is in central - southern Manyeleti. The only thing pointing to Nharus is the fact that there's one solo Red Road son left in the pride, and he is right around the age and appearance of the young male in this video. I have to say, this male looks like the Red Road son, but it's not their usual territory.

Torchwood pride seems most likely to me, as I do not recall Imbalis to have a young male in/around the group, and we do know there are some young Torchwood males.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 10-22-2024

(10-21-2024, 10:59 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: becoming brave enough to attack prides outside his roaming area this fast is pretty much nhil.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, but, this is a little anthropomorphic, no? For starters, I do not believe any wild creature lacks for bravery or courage, however those are human traits, for wild creatures there is only survival, period, and surviving in the wild is not for the feint of heart. Secondly, we have been following the Tumbelas, for years, and the only time we have witnessed them being fearful was before their taking over the Othawa Pride, and at that point they had lost a brother during their nomadic travels, and everything in the bush wanted to kill the rest of them. 99% of all male lions are fearful and skittish during this stage of their lives, only one that wasn't, that I recall was, strangely enough, Othawa Male, and that is only because he didn't really have a nomadic stage, he walked away from the Othawa Pride, and ran straight into the Manghenis.

All three of the remaining Tumbelas never demonstrated any aggression towards other lions, even towards a 15 year old male, from who they intended on taking his pride. We have only seen defensive postures when attacked, or the typical showing of dominance towards one another that comes with being in a coalition. Skorro Jr has been on his own, for a few years now, living with lasting injuries that obviously hamper his ability to hunt, at times, an old lion, like he is, does not accomplish that if he lacks what we might view as courage, or lives in fear. If that fact alone, is not enough to show anyone that he doesn't lack for "bravery", then I don't know what else to say to those people.

Using terms such as "brave enough" can only be viewed as meant to imply the opposite, as in lacking in "bravery" or "courage", or perhaps having "cowardice". None of these terms have a place in any discussion about any wild creature. People have said the same sort of things about Nkuhuma Male, and in those instances those words were equally misplaced.

A perfect example might be what literally just happened involving Kruger Male. He stood his ground, in the face of an obviously stronger force, until it became clear that to remain would have ended very badly for him. Was the fact that he ran away, while literally being surrounded, a sign that he wasn't brave enough? Absolutely not, in fact I believe it was a perfect example of the intelligence that he possesses, an intelligence that has allowed him to survive for all of these years as a lone male, and that allows him, at this advanced age, to still have the drive to become territorial and dominant yet again. Will it happen? I don't know, but for as smart as he clearly is, I would not bet against him, that much is for sure.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 10-22-2024

(10-21-2024, 11:59 PM)MrLoesoe Wrote:
(10-20-2024, 11:36 PM)sunless Wrote: Nharu Pride (told by the guide) is in southern part of Djuma near Treehouse Dam and killed a buffalo.
It consist of 6 female and 1 young male.
But some are suggesting Imbali Pride or Torchwood Pride.





I doubt these are the Nharus. It's way out of their territory, which is in central - southern Manyeleti. The only thing pointing to Nharus is the fact that there's one solo Red Road son left in the pride, and he is right around the age and appearance of the young male in this video. I have to say, this male looks like the Red Road son, but it's not their usual territory.

Torchwood pride seems most likely to me, as I do not recall Imbalis to have a young male in/around the group, and we do know there are some young Torchwood males.

I am not very good at identifying many lions on sight, but if this is them, it would not be their first foray into northern SS, I believe they were there just a few months back, if I'm not mistaken.