(08-26-2024, 08:53 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I agree with KM600, I think they were just enjoying a meal and chasing Tumbela off to defend their territory and food, it's not like they seek the Manghenis to pay a visit like they do with Ximhungwe, regardless of food involved.

Still this was undoubtedly a good thing, perhaps if Othawas come into estrus to get PCM to stick to the West and Manghenis stay closer to PCM western territory, they can get some more protection than lately.

@Potato I agree that there will probably be no serious clash between Ndhzengas and PCM, I'd even be surprised if they have another meeting in the near future, both have huge territories already.

But I disagree that Ndhzengas are just decent and PCM much more formidable to a point they could oust them with ease or mid diff. I share the same opinion of Londolozi, PCM looked to be more formidable, being bigger, more aggressive and what not, but Ndhzengas matched them and won their clash, they chased them off, this is something the PCM have never done, beating a prime territorial duo. Ndhzengas have done that against PCM and BDM, and recently their roars made 3 Nkhulu retreat.

If serious competition between them happens 2 years from now like you speculate then things may indeed change as Ndhzengas will be old, but if this happens the Ndhzenga legacy will be secure already so a takeover by PCM or any other won't be a bad thing, luckily.

(08-27-2024, 02:28 AM)Potato Wrote:

(08-26-2024, 08:53 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I agree with KM600, I think they were just enjoying a meal and chasing Tumbela off to defend their territory and food, it's not like they seek the Manghenis to pay a visit like they do with Ximhungwe, regardless of food involved.

Still this was undoubtedly a good thing, perhaps if Othawas come into estrus to get PCM to stick to the West and Manghenis stay closer to PCM western territory, they can get some more protection than lately.

@Potato I agree that there will probably be no serious clash between Ndhzengas and PCM, I'd even be surprised if they have another meeting in the near future, both have huge territories already.

But I disagree that Ndhzengas are just decent and PCM much more formidable to a point they could oust them with ease or mid diff. I share the same opinion of Londolozi, PCM looked to be more formidable, being bigger, more aggressive and what not, but Ndhzengas matched them and won their clash, they chased them off, this is something the PCM have never done, beating a prime territorial duo. Ndhzengas have done that against PCM and BDM, and recently their roars made 3 Nkhulu retreat.

If serious competition between them happens 2 years from now like you speculate then things may indeed change as Ndhzengas will be old, but if this happens the Ndhzenga legacy will be secure already so a takeover by PCM or any other won't be a bad thing, luckily.

I dissagree with interpretation that Ndzengas defeated Plain Camp males. In fact I wouldn't even call that confrontation. That was just a border dispute. Both parties roared a bit and after a while each side went their separate ways. At this point it doesn't seem like PC males intend to challange Ndzengas for anythink and symmetrically doesn't seem like Ndzengas intend to challange PC males over anythink. We could say Ndzengas defeated PC males if for example Ndzengas would beat PC males and stole their kill or some females. In thios case however it was just meaningless  encounter with no winner and no prize.

Also you say Ndzengas defeated Black Dams. Ndzengas cought one of the Black Dams and mauled him, but in another encounter also BD males cought one of the Ndzengas. In those encounters Black Dam male took worst injures and therefore we could say Ndzengas seemd to be stronger duo, but it wasn't like Ndzengas totally dominated Black Dams.

(08-27-2024, 03:08 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote:

(08-27-2024, 02:28 AM)Potato Wrote:

(08-26-2024, 08:53 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I agree with KM600, I think they were just enjoying a meal and chasing Tumbela off to defend their territory and food, it's not like they seek the Manghenis to pay a visit like they do with Ximhungwe, regardless of food involved.

Still this was undoubtedly a good thing, perhaps if Othawas come into estrus to get PCM to stick to the West and Manghenis stay closer to PCM western territory, they can get some more protection than lately.

@Potato I agree that there will probably be no serious clash between Ndhzengas and PCM, I'd even be surprised if they have another meeting in the near future, both have huge territories already.

But I disagree that Ndhzengas are just decent and PCM much more formidable to a point they could oust them with ease or mid diff. I share the same opinion of Londolozi, PCM looked to be more formidable, being bigger, more aggressive and what not, but Ndhzengas matched them and won their clash, they chased them off, this is something the PCM have never done, beating a prime territorial duo. Ndhzengas have done that against PCM and BDM, and recently their roars made 3 Nkhulu retreat.

If serious competition between them happens 2 years from now like you speculate then things may indeed change as Ndhzengas will be old, but if this happens the Ndhzenga legacy will be secure already so a takeover by PCM or any other won't be a bad thing, luckily.

I dissagree with interpretation that Ndzengas defeated Plain Camp males. In fact I wouldn't even call that confrontation. That was just a border dispute. Both parties roared a bit and after a while each side went their separate ways. At this point it doesn't seem like PC males intend to challange Ndzengas for anythink and symmetrically doesn't seem like Ndzengas intend to challange PC males over anythink. We could say Ndzengas defeated PC males if for example Ndzengas would beat PC males and stole their kill or some females. In thios case however it was just meaningless  encounter with no winner and no prize.

Also you say Ndzengas defeated Black Dams. Ndzengas cought one of the Black Dams and mauled him, but in another encounter also BD males cought one of the Ndzengas. In those encounters Black Dam male took worst injures and therefore we could say Ndzengas seemd to be stronger duo, but it wasn't like Ndzengas totally dominated Black Dams.

So what about the gijimas and nhkulus chasing eachother all the time?

(08-27-2024, 12:12 PM)Potato Wrote: It is rather safe to say that Gijimas are not challanging for anythink, but is it the case other way around? Nkhulus are venturing quite deep into Gijimas territory.

(08-27-2024, 05:17 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: So, the smaller BDM is still not in great shape.  

(08-27-2024, 05:46 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote:

(08-27-2024, 05:17 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: So, the smaller BDM is still not in great shape.  

What happened to him?? That injury is different from his old leg injury. Very ironic that he kinda looked like Dark Mane Avoca there..same type of injury and limp. BD is in good condition so hopefully he can walk on it comfortably in a few weeks. 
Are Mohawk and BD still hanging out with a couple of the nkuhuma lionesses and Mohawks son? There’s been consistently 3 lionesses hanging with Plains Camp males. It looks like the prime might split.

(08-27-2024, 07:30 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(08-27-2024, 05:46 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote:

(08-27-2024, 05:17 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: So, the smaller BDM is still not in great shape.  

What happened to him?? That injury is different from his old leg injury. Very ironic that he kinda looked like Dark Mane Avoca there..same type of injury and limp. BD is in good condition so hopefully he can walk on it comfortably in a few weeks. 
Are Mohawk and BD still hanging out with a couple of the nkuhuma lionesses and Mohawks son? There’s been consistently 3 lionesses hanging with Plains Camp males. It looks like the prime might split.

They are still hanging out together, think it was yesterday I seen an update of the BDM with the Nkuhuma YM. Mohawk and the BDM seem to split up every now and then which is a lil weird considering they’re not dominant males, but always rejoin one another. 

Ironically, I think the BDM may have also reinjured his paw while hunting like DM. They’ve had no physical altercations with any male lions as far as I’m aware and aren’t fighting each other for mating rights. Makes the most sense it happened during hunting, seems too severe for it to just be from him lying down for too long.

(08-27-2024, 10:09 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Potato It wasn't just roaring tho, Ndhzengas and PCM were actively chasing each other around after PCM invaded Ndhzenga territory.

It ended with Ndhzengas chasing PCM deep into their own territory.

Yes it wasn't a serious all out challenge for a pride/territory or even food, but both tried hard for hours until Ndhzengas prevailed, if PCM were much stronger they'd have done to Ndhzengas what they do to Kambulas, easy chase.

As for Ndhzenga and BDM, Ndhzengas dominated with ease, MalaMala says that every time the BDM heard the Ndhzenga roars they'd retreat.

(08-27-2024, 10:09 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Yes it wasn't a serious all out challenge for a pride/territory or even food, but both tried hard for hours until Ndhzengas prevailed

(08-27-2024, 10:09 PM)Mapokser Wrote: if PCM were much stronger they'd have done to Ndhzengas what they do to Kambulas, easy chase.

(08-27-2024, 10:09 PM)Mapokser Wrote: MalaMala says that every time the BDM heard the Ndhzenga roars they'd retreat.

(08-27-2024, 04:38 PM)Ngonya Wrote: Tr1x has already talked about it and i agree, it seems much more like the Gijimas are invading and challenging Nkhulus than the other way around

(08-28-2024, 02:05 AM)Potato Wrote:

(08-27-2024, 10:09 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Yes it wasn't a serious all out challenge for a pride/territory or even food, but both tried hard for hours until Ndhzengas prevailed

Well then... we differently interpretate what happened there.

(08-27-2024, 10:09 PM)Mapokser Wrote: if PCM were much stronger they'd have done to Ndhzengas what they do to Kambulas, easy chase.

The think is that at this point there is no reason for them to fight, maybe aside Plains Camp males willing to push Ndzengas a bit further away from Nkuchuma pride. That is for now at least, assuming it is only border dispute and PC males won't try to push for take over of Kambula and Ntsevu pride which I assume they won't at least in the following year or two.

(08-27-2024, 10:09 PM)Mapokser Wrote: MalaMala says that every time the BDM heard the Ndhzenga roars they'd retreat.

BDM were venturing deep into Ndzengas lands and even beat one of them 2vs1. How is that retreating any time they heard Ndzengas. When venturing into their territory they must have be perfectly avare what they are up against (hearing Ndzengas and smelling their scent). After all they at that point were settled down coalition bortering Ndzengas for months, not a transpassing nomads, just happened to apear on Ndzengas lands without knowing who rules those lands.

(08-27-2024, 04:38 PM)Ngonya Wrote: Tr1x has already talked about it and i agree, it seems much more like the Gijimas are invading and challenging Nkhulus than the other way around

1. Gijimas already chassed Nkhulu at least on 3 different occasion from their own territory. 
2. It is almost insane to assume that dominant duo would even consider expanding their territory on near by lands own by coalition of 6.
3. Even if we would take this assumpion as true, there is no real prize for Gijimas to takeover. Sand River females already have cubs and won't be willing to mate even if by some miracle Gijimas would oust Nkhulus. If/when those 2 coalitions will clash it will be over Styx pride females which are very much in Gijimas terriory.

(08-28-2024, 02:05 AM)Potato Wrote: 1. Gijimas already chassed Nkhulu at least on 3 different occasion from their own territory. 
2. It is almost insane to assume that dominant duo would even consider expanding their territory on near by lands own by coalition of 6.



3. Even if we would take this assumpion as true, there is no real prize for Gijimas to takeover. Sand River females already have cubs and won't be willing to mate even if by some miracle Gijimas would oust Nkhulus. If/when those 2 coalitions will clash it will be over Styx pride females which are very much in Gijimas terriory.

(08-28-2024, 02:46 AM)Ngonya Wrote: In other situation this year, there are videos of the Gijimas chasing what is said to be 3 Nkhulus, and guides in the video clearly from Kirkman's/Tengile (andbeyond). Also Gijima mated with a Sand River lioness shortly after.

(08-28-2024, 02:46 AM)Ngonya Wrote: When four Nkhulus were seen being chased by one Gijima in that impressive video more recently, as me and Tr1x already discussed in Nkhulu topic, it seems more likely that Gijimas crossed Sabi Sabi border and got into Nkhulu territory, got chased as the reports say, and then all the chasing back and forth, until in MalaMala, Nkhulus gave the final word. 

(08-28-2024, 02:46 AM)Ngonya Wrote: Its not impossible for Nkhulus to try and expand in the future, but for now, theres barely any sign of cubs in Sand River pride since May, so it seems unlikely.