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+----- Thread: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage (/topic-birmingham-coalition-male-lineage)
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RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Slayerd - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 01:17 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I think that is putting to much blame on her.
All lions start out fearing dominant males. Its what they are trained to do from birth as cubs and have to unlearn once they grow up.
That the Kambula boys are still fleeing is just because they are not mature enough to stand their ground. If they were, their sister fleeing would not matter much. Lionesses are not expected to fight in conflicts like these.
I don't think it's putting blame on her as much as it is admitting she is affecting the nature of the Kambula boys. She chases away females who attempt to get their attention and it seems like the other 3 aside from Kambula #4 often follow her when she goes in the opposite direction of the prides they could be conquering. I think she is indirectly affecting their growth.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Duco Ndona - 04-16-2024
Well. Lionesses typically dont join coalitions, so scenarios are really rare and seeing we are only studying a few lions at this level for a few decades at most. So we more likely just have never been lucky enough for it to be captured on camera. Not to mention that lionesses mature much faster than males. So most lionesses in that situation would likely leave the group long before they become territorial.
In any case, I extremely doubt the presence of the sister has any impact on any decisions the males make. If enough members in a coalition are confident enough to fight. Then they are going to fight, even if some of the group flees regardless if those fleeing members are male or female. Right now what we are seeing is that only one or two members of the kambulas are confident enough to try stuff, so the issues are wider than just the lioness. I think this is mostly a case of people having way to much expectations for a coalition based on numbers alone and are now getting impatient or frustrated that they are taking a little longer to mature.
As for what is going to happen with her.
Most likely she will reach maturity first and break off from her brothers to rejoin her maternal pride or seek mates on her own or she gets left behind once the coalition settles in another prides territory. If the situation continues, she may have a litter of her own, forcing the entire group to settle down somewhere into a quasi pride pride male situation.
It can also not be ruled out she just integrates in whichever pride her brothers take over. Though the only pride I can think of that may be open to that is the tsalala pride.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - sik94 - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 03:13 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: If enough members in a coalition are confident enough to fight. Then they are going to fight, even if some of the group flees regardless if those fleeing members are male or female.
I don't think that's a given. If they are acting as a group, seeing one run will definitely affect the others. There's usually a lot of chaos and nobody knows who are they up against and how many, so as soon one leaves, the rest think he knows something we don't and follow suit. It's like mob mentality, there have been studies done on this stuff. In those situations, whoever in the group makes the first decisive move kinda becomes the leader of the group. If one charges in, the others will follow even if they don't have all the information. Again, It's he saw something or knows something we don't so act now ask questions later.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Ttimemarti - 04-16-2024
Very strange she is still with them tho I mean the plains camp male arrived with their sisters and they got chased and regrouped but one day they left same with the matshipiri males their sister vanished She’s 4 in a half years old right so I guess she’s just not ready to mate and has no need to leave them
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Duco Ndona - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 05:59 AM)sik94 Wrote:Its more the other way around. If enough males stay, mob mentality takes over and they fight regardless of what one fleeing member does. If the mayority flees, their resolution falls apart and they all scatter.(04-16-2024, 03:13 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: If enough members in a coalition are confident enough to fight. Then they are going to fight, even if some of the group flees regardless if those fleeing members are male or female.
I don't think that's a given. If they are acting as a group, seeing one run will definitely affect the others. There's usually a lot of chaos and nobody knows who are they up against and how many, so as soon one leaves, the rest think he knows something we don't and follow suit. It's like mob mentality, there have been studies done on this stuff. In those situations, whoever in the group makes the first decisive move kinda becomes the leader of the group. If one charges in, the others will follow even if they don't have all the information. Again, It's he saw something or knows something we don't so act now ask questions later.
Seeing only two are willing to fight. Its odd to single out the lioness when also the other males are at fault.
(04-16-2024, 08:51 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Very strange she is still with them tho I mean the plains camp male arrived with their sisters and they got chased and regrouped but one day they left same with the matshipiri males their sister vanished She’s 4 in a half years old right so I guess she’s just not ready to mate and has no need to leave them
Lions are social animals and the group hasnt matured yet. So she doesnt have the confidence yet to head out on her own.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Tr1x24 - 04-16-2024
K4 still in the north with NK female :
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Tr1x24 - 04-16-2024
1 of injured male (K6) reunited with K3 and sister:
2nd injured male (K5) also seen looks like in the north.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - criollo2mil - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 03:11 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: 1 of injured male (not sure which, i think K5) reunited with K3 and sister:
2nd injured male (prob K6) also seen looks like in Singita north of river.
As i said, i am not sure which male is there, as we didnt see the face, it might be other way around.
So the summary I was given said it’s K6 , K3 and sister together
K4 and K5 were north mating w Nkuhumas.
So it seems everyone is accounted for and now with two males mating, the status of the sister will become more complicating. She can be caught out by aggression of prospective mating females
She needs to find a way to depart without incident.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - criollo2mil - 04-16-2024
https://x.com/andrecb1/status/1780119794525573171?s=12
Footage of I believe K5 up north.
If someone could confirm ID please.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - T_Ferguson - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 05:42 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: https://x.com/andrecb1/status/1780119794525573171?s=12
Footage of I believe K5 up north.
If someone could confirm ID please.
I believe you are right on the ID. The question is when.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Tr1x24 - 04-16-2024
Looks like both males where quite "lucky" that they didnt sustain further mauling, only few bite marks on K6 back legs:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Both look sore, but should recover relatively quickly from that.
Question is what exactly happened that neither of 2 males didnt get killed or more badly mauled, as both where definetly caught by 2 males based if injuries.
So either other Kambulas intervened and didnt just run away, or, minding that Kambulas prob didnt challenge neither of Gijimas or PCMs, it was just a message from them towards Kambulas to stop hanging in/near their territory.
I hope Kambulas got that message and will start moving north towards K4 and finally establish themselves there with NKs.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Ngonya - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 05:42 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: If someone could confirm ID please.100% K5
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Ttimemarti - 04-16-2024
Sooooo k12 will likely join the nstevu pride? IF she does try to go back to her pride the kambulas will push her away no even tho her mom is with them
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - Tr1x24 - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 07:05 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Sooooo k12 will likely join the nstevu pride? IF she does try to go back to her pride the kambulas will push her away no even tho her mom is with them
She will most likely not, she has no connections with them for almost 2.5 years.
She will most likely become solo female like Tsalala.
RE: Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage - GhostCatP-22 - 04-16-2024
(04-16-2024, 07:15 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:From what I remember she did try to rejoin the pride twice and aggressive K6 lioness kept attacking her. K12 had even met and was accepted by one of the Nzinga males. Very sad that she was too scared to try again to rejoin.(04-16-2024, 07:05 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Sooooo k12 will likely join the nstevu pride? IF she does try to go back to her pride the kambulas will push her away no even tho her mom is with them
She will most likely not, she has no connections with them for almost 2.5 years.
She will most likely become solo female like Tsalala.
She has safety and companionship with her brothers. Her hunting style is probably going to be the hardest thing to change…going from being Buffalo hunters to hunting leopard style.
At least she will be able to handle any males in the future.
Very cool we get to follow this kind of “rare” event of the sister sticking with her nomadic brothers.
I do worry about her being outnumbered by Nkuhuma lionesses.