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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Vengeous - 07-04-2024

I think a lot of people are deeping this interaction - it's exciting to play this up as a major showdown between two of the most formidable duos in Sabi Sands, when I do agree with some users that this was just a reiteration of boundaries. The PCMs were realistically never going to come out on top in the Ndhzengas' territory, they pushed their luck and got repelled because there was far more to lose for them - the potential injuries suffered from a clash was never going to be worth an expansion of their territory. I think it's worth pointing out that part of what makes the PCMs so formidable is that unless they are scrapping over mating rights, the two of them rarely allow themselves to get hurt in conflicts with other lions. They sustained minor injuries when taking down Nhenha, and had maybe a couple of scratches after injuring one of the Kambulas and possibly killing Lip Scarr Nkuhuma. They usually only fight when they possess the element of surprise.

The Ndhzengas, on the other hand, absolutely needed to make a statement against the PCMs' incursion. They had far more to lose if they retreated in their own territory. If the Ndhzengas' and PCMs' roles were reversed, the outcome would likely be reversed too. At the end of the day, there is so much to lose for both these males and while people criticise the PCMs for leaving the west, I have always seen it as a calculated risk, far different from the risk that the PCMs would take clashing with the Ndhzengas in Londolozi. The Ndhzengas have often been very prudent in their patrols and their movement has always been very defense-oriented.

Ultimately, both have reinforced their borders and unless the PCMs are lured by the Kambula or Ntsevu prides, I find it highly unlikely that they will move deep into Ndhzenga territory because there's just no reason to. In my humble opinion this barely constitutes a "battle" between these coalitions.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 07-04-2024

(07-04-2024, 01:29 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(07-04-2024, 12:57 AM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote: Saw that too but what confused that it might have been S8 son or the young Nkuhuma boy…has the video been posted yet? I want to reference, show others to try and get IDs.

Looks like Talamati :





Not surprising, since this is NYM, but it is concerning due to one inexplicable absence.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 07-04-2024

@Tr1x24 what happened it's far from being out of the realm of imagination but it is indeed a bit surprising.

If you asked most people, they'd say PCM are the strongest, even guides would say that.

This first started with Londolozi guide speculating that PCM were chasing Ndhzenhas just because. And before that their article said only 1 of the 4 was an impressive lion and the other one currently alove "was smaller than the lionesses".

MalaMala then wrote an article saying their future is uncertain because they weren't big and "size matters".

Northern guide more recently said Kambulas had no chance against PCM because "PCM are way too huge and powerful", and added that people were talking nonsense while speculating Kambulas could beat them. Ndhzengas are even smaller and only 2.

Also more recently a western lodge made a post of the PCM with the saying "strongest coalition in SS?"

So it's not like this was some overall fan opinion bases on nothing, guides also shared a similar opinion.

So yeah you were right that the Ndhzengas were a proper match but this is not a laughing matter that was obvious to everybody... To give another example, of the opposite happening, back in early 2022 you said that if Nhenha and NK were to establish themselves they could do very well and when addressing PCM, you said they wouldn't be an issue because "they are only 4,5yo", and then what happened was that PCM easily walked over territorial Nhenha/NK.

So my point is that these things are sometimes hard to predict, it was far from obvious that the Ndhzenhas would beat the PCM if they met in a clash.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 07-04-2024

(07-04-2024, 05:50 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 what happened it's far from being out of the realm of imagination but it is indeed a bit surprising.

If you asked most people, they'd say PCM are the strongest, even guides would say that.

This first started with Londolozi guide speculating that PCM were chasing Ndhzenhas just because. And before that their article said only 1 of the 4 was an impressive lion and the other one currently alove "was smaller than the lionesses".

MalaMala then wrote an article saying their future is uncertain because they weren't big and "size matters".

Northern guide more recently said Kambulas had no chance against PCM because "PCM are way too huge and powerful", and added that people were talking nonsense while speculating Kambulas could beat them. Ndhzengas are even smaller and only 2.

Also more recently a western lodge made a post of the PCM with the saying "strongest coalition in SS?"

So it's not like this was some overall fan opinion bases on nothing, guides also shared a similar opinion.

So yeah you were right that the Ndhzengas were a proper match but this is not a laughing matter that was obvious to everybody... To give another example, of the opposite happening, back in early 2022 you said that if Nhenha and NK were to establish themselves they could do very well and when addressing PCM, you said they wouldn't be an issue because "they are only 4,5yo", and then what happened was that PCM easily walked over territorial Nhenha/NK.

So my point is that these things are sometimes hard to predict, it was far from obvious that the Ndhzenhas would beat the PCM if they met in a clash.

I, myself, said it in here, several times, starting a few months back. I said I would not put money on the PCMs, the Nwas, or the Gijimas, if any two of them clashed, as I believe they are quite equally matched. The only thing this incident proves is that the Nwas were able to produce a strong enough united front, to make the PCMs decide whatever was behind them wasn't enough to continue into their territory. Would things have gone this way if the Nwas were found by the PCMs in the western sector? I don't believe it would have, in fact I think we'd likely have seen the exact opposite conclusion. Same goes for the Gijimas.

Lions are not at all, stupid creatures, in fact I know of at least one video that exists that shows them capable of forethought, that is to say taking a specific action in order to elicit a desired response. Thus I believe they are capable of making calculated decisions, as was made here, a risk vs reward if you will. They don't know how many lionesses the Kambula/Nstevu prides have, but they are capable of understanding that there is a serious risk involved in finding out.

Just like the possibility that lions do not attack safari vehicles, do so because they see the truck as one giant creature. I don't buy that, there are too many videos of lions literally making eye contact with the people in the truck. If that was the case, then the lion who was driven to fall off the waterfall would not have been trying to create space between himself and his pursuers, he would simply have attacked. I believe there is a developed fear of man, but since the lions have never been attacked from one of the trucks, they feel they are safe. It is no different with any wild animal. I have seen it personally, go into areas where hunting has not been permitted in almost a century, and you can practically walk right up to them, as their fear is not a natural one, but a learned behavior. You see the same type of animal in a different setting, and you will not see them for long. Same principle applies here, regarding safari trucks, I believe.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 07-04-2024

I don't know if I trust this video.  That does look like snip tail Nkhulu, but I don't think that's the smaller Gijima...





RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 07-04-2024

(07-04-2024, 05:02 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: I don't know if I trust this video.  That does look like snip tail Nkhulu, but I don't think that's the smaller Gijima...

Thats not neither of  Gijima.

Looks like 1 of their brothers, male 4 i think, as Snip Tail is harassing him, Smudge roaring and male 5 lying down.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ttimemarti - 07-04-2024

Yeah lmao not gijima im 100% sure the other two wouldn’t be that relaxed if it was the gijima that their brother was bothering they’re both laying down calm in the beginning

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 07-04-2024

(07-04-2024, 05:02 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: I don't know if I trust this video.  That does look like snip tail Nkhulu, but I don't think that's the smaller Gijima...
(07-04-2024, 05:06 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Looks like 1 of their brothers, male 4 i think
Not Gijima, neither male 4. Thats male 3, Snip Tail is just bullying his brother. 
Btw thanks for sharing @T_Ferguson

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mdz123 - 07-05-2024

(07-04-2024, 01:45 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(07-04-2024, 12:36 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I think the PCM's aggressiveness, impressive size/mane, their performance against nomads as well as their expansive behavior blinded me a bit regarding their strength to a point I thought anyone in their path at central and northern SS would be walked over.

But I always kept in mind that they never dealt with proper well-established dominant males. Ndhzengas are totally different in personality but were in a similar situation, doing well against nomads and pushovers.

But since Ndhzengas started their "career" in SS running from the 2 old Bboys, aren't very aggressive, killing many subs and females, are small in body and never encountered the 4 Kambulas like the othera duo did, they didn't had the same reputation in strength, still they are dominant over the worst territory to defend in SS for a reason, the Gijimas who by far have the best feats in territorial clashes also seems to respect them for a season, so here they seemingly gave the PCM their first L.

Not suprising, I was saying this since those PCMs vs Ndhzengas talks started, and people saying how PCMs would simply walk over Ndhzengas because of their agressivnes, confidence and most important, size (lol).

Ndhzengas showed in the past 4 yrs more then enough, but people are still going to downplay them because of their size..

I think all 3 duos in Sabi Sands (Ndhzengas, Gijimas and PCMs), are really strong with strong bonds betweem them, its impossible to tell who would win in a real territorial clash.

But with this, 2 Ndhzengas now beat and chased both Gijimas (as nomads) and PCMs in a clash/dispute.

Ppl underestimate the N'was duo, Amahle and Eorenji always had a close bond and functioned great as a duo. PCMs might be bigger and more aggressive, but N'was have way more experience and know the territory better then PCMs or Gijimas. And lets not forget that N'was are still in their prime years, i know it feels like they've been here for so long but they are still 8-9 years old. So I dont see PCMs or Gijimas winning in a real territorial clash yet.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 07-06-2024

Nkuhuma Male and Khanya still together



RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 07-06-2024

(07-06-2024, 06:21 AM)KM600 Wrote: Nkuhuma Male and Khanya still together


Still, nothing on Skorro Jr, which is concerning. It has been awhile, now.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 07-06-2024

(07-06-2024, 07:21 AM)BA0701 Wrote:
(07-06-2024, 06:21 AM)KM600 Wrote: Nkuhuma Male and Khanya still together


Still, nothing on Skorro Jr, which is concerning. It has been awhile, now.

I wouldn’t necessarily start worrying yet, Skorro is great at disappearing and then popping back up when ppl start to worry. Obviously ppl are concerned more after the injuries sustained via the Gijimas, but there’s such a lack of news right now, I’m not worried for him atleast at this very second. 

Just to put it into perspective, Skorro hasn’t been seen in 2 weeks, Khanya also wasn’t seen within the same time frame. Despite him travelling around areas such as Northern Sabi Sands, Londolozi, MalaMala - areas u would expect him to be spotted. Infact he was only initially spotted as he was seen following a massive buffalo herd into MalaMala, before that he disappeared in Northern Sabi Sands for a while too. When these lions don’t want to be found, it’s pretty much impossible to spot them.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 07-06-2024

He spend most of the past years alone, avoiding the bigger coalitions despite his health. Only occasionally seen.

I am sure he just went back to doing that.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapogo Son - 07-06-2024

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. 

I have a question.: 

In 2015, Hairy Belly met with Nsuku Birmingham, there is even a video, but why did Hairy Belly lose to him?????

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - lionuk - 07-06-2024

(07-06-2024, 03:50 PM)Mapogo Son Wrote: Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. 

I have a question.: 

In 2015, Hairy Belly met with Nsuku Birmingham, there is even a video, but why did Hairy Belly lose to him?????


Hello, first of all, welcome to this forum,
In my opinion, judging Hairy Belly's body language, Hairy Belly did show a lot of respect to Nsuku, He was the submissive one (low posture, head down, avoiding eye contact) while Nsuku was dominant one in this encounter (standing tall, head up, roaring on him). It's as both males didn't want to fight. Also Nsuku and Styx pride already ate much of the kill before Hairy Belly came.