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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 06-06-2024

(06-06-2024, 05:59 PM)KM600 Wrote: I know his lack of mane prolly helps but the PCMs especially are very hostile towards subadults no matter the gender.

At this point, this young male to them is no different than young females, as young females are not in estrus yet.

So if they are not hostile towards young females, theres no reason they would be towards young male.

But this will change as he ages and his male testosterones kick in.

Same happened with N.Avocas vs NK and Mhangeni males, in similar situation and age, N.Avocas initially accept them and female subs , but as they aged, they become hostile towards young males.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 06-06-2024

I'll move this discussion for BDMs here.

@Mapokser Source and video of PCMs chasing smaller BDM?

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 06-07-2024

(06-06-2024, 11:22 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I'll move this discussion for BDMs here.

@Mapokser Source and video of PCMs chasing smaller BDM?

I missed one last sighting of him in my other post, but anyway the chronology down below.

Singita guide was the source, May 26, PCM chased BDM from Singita, smaller BDM is in good condition and the video shows he was not limping at all:


*This image is copyright of its original author


2 days later, on 28th of May the last sighting of the smaller BDM, both seen together by a northern guide who states PCM, BDM, Talamati and Mohawk were in the north ( with Kambulas a bit further into Manyeleti ):


*This image is copyright of its original author


Then one day later on May 29, the bigger BDM is seen with Talamati, acting submissive towards him:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Something must have happened between 28th and 29th, which left bigger BDM alone and with so little confidence he was submissive to a younger nomad, and then after that he went back to his natal area.

Did his brother succumbed to an illness in a single day, despite being in good shape?

4 days later, on June 02, the PCM show up in the Western Sector, the guide notices the bigger PCM has new scars and the smaller one was limping, he then speculates the PCM were possibly in a territorial fight:


*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - afortich - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 01:25 AM)Mapokser Wrote:
(06-06-2024, 11:22 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I'll move this discussion for BDMs here.

@Mapokser Source and video of PCMs chasing smaller BDM?

I missed one last sighting of him in my other post, but anyway the chronology down below.

Singita guide was the source, May 26, PCM chased BDM from Singita, smaller BDM is in good condition and the video shows he was not limping at all:

Interesting theory with logical reconstruction of facts my friend!!

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 01:25 AM)Mapokser Wrote:
(06-06-2024, 11:22 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I'll move this discussion for BDMs here.

@Mapokser Source and video of PCMs chasing smaller BDM?

I missed one last sighting of him in my other post, but anyway the chronology down below.

Singita guide was the source, May 26, PCM chased BDM from Singita, smaller BDM is in good condition and the video shows he was not limping at all:


*This image is copyright of its original author


2 days later, on 28th of May the last sighting of the smaller BDM, both seen together by a northern guide who states PCM, BDM, Talamati and Mohawk were in the north ( with Kambulas a bit further into Manyeleti ):


*This image is copyright of its original author


Then one day later on May 29, the bigger BDM is seen with Talamati, acting submissive towards him:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Something must have happened between 28th and 29th, which left bigger BDM alone and with so little confidence he was submissive to a younger nomad, and then after that he went back to his natal area.

Did his brother succumbed to an illness in a single day, despite being in good shape?

4 days later, on June 02, the PCM show up in the Western Sector, the guide notices the bigger PCM has new scars and the smaller one was limping, he then speculates the PCM were possibly in a territorial fight:


*This image is copyright of its original author

Obviously none of us know what happened, but I really doubt the PCMs picked up such injuries fighting the BDMs. The bigger BDM who was submissive to Khanya looked in good condition, no visible signs of injuries apart from a cut on his face which has been there for a few weeks. Do I really think one BDM gave one of the PCMs a limp and the other additional scars across his face all while his brother was in good shape, prolly not. Don’t get me wrong, they could still be the reason for his disappearance but I just don’t think their injuries come from that possible interaction.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 01:25 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Something must have happened between 28th and 29th, which left bigger BDM alone and with so little confidence he was submissive to a younger nomad, and then after that he went back to his natal area.

Did his brother succumbed to an illness in a single day, despite being in good shape?

It doesnt have to be that he died in 1 day, if ilness, he maybe died in 4,5 days from that last sighting, similary how S8 did.

I mean we dont know what happened.

I think its still too little evidence to claim with 100% that PCMs killed him, we need to investigate deeper.

Also, if clash happened that night, what was Talamati doing there (looking very confiident) next day dominating BDM, he would prob flee out of there, aswell as bigger BDM, but they both stayed in same area, which is strange.

BDMs behaved quite submissive and low profile for months, not sure why would PCMs pursue them and kill one of them, after we saw that they didnt kill neither Tumbela or K5, same type of low profile nomads, when they catched them. BDMs where not challeging them.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ttimemarti - 06-07-2024

Does anyone remember when S8 was throwing up I’m almost 100% sure it was days later he died after that he was sick and skinny but anything could’ve happened to the smaller southern black dam male but whatever happened to him he was not 100% healthy if he was caught by other males sick or he died bc he was sick which I’m pretty sure he had been sick for awhile

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - afortich - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 02:07 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(06-07-2024, 01:25 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Something must have happened between 28th and 29th, which left bigger BDM alone and with so little confidence he was submissive to a younger nomad, and then after that he went back to his natal area.

Did his brother succumbed to an illness in a single day, despite being in good shape?

It doesnt have to be that he died in 1 day, if ilness, he maybe died in 4,5 days from that last sighting, similary how S8 did.

I mean we dont know what happened.

Also, if clash happened that night, what was Talamati doing there (looking very confiident) next day dominating BDM, he would prob flee out of there, aswell as bigger BDM, but they both stayed in same area, which is strange.

Your theories about the illness and the clash with no fleeing sound very interesting too my friend!!

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Vengeous - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 02:07 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(06-07-2024, 01:25 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Something must have happened between 28th and 29th, which left bigger BDM alone and with so little confidence he was submissive to a younger nomad, and then after that he went back to his natal area.

Did his brother succumbed to an illness in a single day, despite being in good shape?

It doesnt have to be that he died in 1 day, if ilness, he maybe died in 4,5 days from that last sighting, similary how S8 did.

I mean we dont know what happened.

I think its still too little evidence to claim with 100% that PCMs killed him, we need to investigate deeper.

Also, if clash happened that night, what was Talamati doing there (looking very confiident) next day dominating BDM, he would prob flee out of there, aswell as bigger BDM, but they both stayed in same area, which is strange.

BDMs behaved quite submissive and low profile for months, not sure why would PCMs pursue them and kill one of them, after we saw that they didnt kill neither Tumbela or K5, same type of low profile nomads, when they catched them. BDMs where not challeging them.
And yet the PCMs allegedly killed Lip Scar Nkuhuma. Judging by the injuries to K5, I'm not sure I'd put their altercation in the same category as Tumbela's either.

I agree with you though, I don't think there's enough evidence pointing to any particular conclusion - it's circumstantial either way, the only thing we can say is that it's highly unlikely that the smaller BDM is still alive. Also not necessarily a conclusion yet, but I doubt we are getting good news on that front.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 06-07-2024

I'm not saying PCM 100% killed him, I don't know what happened, he might even be alive ( though it's looking unlikely ).

But he was in great condition when PCM chased him, and his last sighting was 1 day before his brother was seen with Talamati, and he was again in normal condition, far from dying.

S8 died because the buffalo's horn mortally wounded him according to the autopsy.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 04:07 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm not saying PCM 100% killed him, I don't know what happened, he might even be alive ( though it's looking unlikely ).

But he was in great condition when PCM chased him, and his last sighting was 1 day before his brother was seen with Talamati, and he was again in normal condition, far from dying.

S8 died because the buffalo's horn mortally wounded him according to the autopsy.

What? This is the first time I have even heard that S8 had some trouble with a buffalo right before he died, He didn't have any visible injuries during his final couple of days. I also was unaware that they did any sort of necropsy performed. I thought that they'd come out and confirmed it was TB that killed him?

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - afortich - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 04:07 AM)Mapokser Wrote: S8 died because the buffalo's horn mortally wounded him according to the autopsy.

Correct. I think they further said he got peritonitis, which is a very bad infection of the internal organs.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ngonya - 06-07-2024

The two young N'waswitshaka/S65 males after Dark Mane Gijima chased both of them from a kill.
by @gmuzeta

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 04:13 AM)afortich Wrote:
(06-07-2024, 04:07 AM)Mapokser Wrote: S8 died because the buffalo's horn mortally wounded him according to the autopsy.

peritonitis

I remember them saying that as well. Peritonitis is when a perforation is created in the intestines, allowing the contents to leak into the body cavity. I have seen people die from it, it is horrible, and excruciatingly painful. I could surely see that caused by a buffalo, even if the horn does not break the skin.

Also, @Mapokser , thinking back on it, I do recall something being said about his having a hard time with a buffalo, as many here began to speculate that the fight between the two of them may have caused a lot of strain on S8's body, allowing the TB to go crazy. So, my apologies to you, for not remembering that.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 06-07-2024

(06-07-2024, 04:25 AM)Ngonya Wrote: The two young N'waswitshaka/S65 males after Dark Mane Gijima chased both of them from a kill.
by @gmuzeta

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

Don't worry young ones, once you hit your prime, nobody will be stealing any more kills from you.