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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 05-21-2024

Exactly, and it is not like the PCM have a crystal ball to show them NK/Tumbela killing their cubs. If they bump onto Ximhungwe they have absolutely no reason not to kill them especially if PCM are in the north where their roars can't even be heard in the Western Sector.

Also, if the PCM would abandon Manghenis, they'd absolute abandon Ximhungwe as well since the Manghenis are way closer to the north than the Ximgungwes are.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 05-21-2024

(05-21-2024, 11:04 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Exactly, and it is not like the PCM have a crystal ball to show them NK/Tumbela killing their cubs. If they bump onto Ximhungwe they have absolutely no reason not to kill them especially if PCM are in the north where their roars can't even be heard in the Western Sector.

Same as Tumbela/NK doesnt have crystal ball either to show them that PCMs are not lying in the next bush waiting to kill them.

I am talking about current situation, 1 of PCMs was in western sector just yesterday or so, and until NK/Tumbela are not 100% sure these 2 are not near, they will not do anything.

That might changes in few weeks or months in future, if PCMs stop returning back.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 05-21-2024

They are lions, not chessmasters. Tumbella didnt stay away out of respect towards the PCmales territorial border. But becouse he was dumb enough one day not to pay attention when resting on the airstrip and the PCmales beat the fear into him for it.  

Until that point, he had no issue forcing himself on the Ximhungwes with zero intention to challenge the PCmales. Understanding when that coalition is away or not.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - GhostCatP-22 - 05-21-2024

(05-21-2024, 11:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-21-2024, 11:04 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Exactly, and it is not like the PCM have a crystal ball to show them NK/Tumbela killing their cubs. If they bump onto Ximhungwe they have absolutely no reason not to kill them especially if PCM are in the north where their roars can't even be heard in the Western Sector.

Same as Tumbela/NK doesnt have crystal ball either to show them that PCMs are not lying in the next bush waiting to kill them.

I am talking about current situation, 1 of PCMs was in western sector just yesterday or so, and until NK/Tumbela are not 100% sure these 2 are not near, they will not do anything.

That might changes in few weeks or months in future, if PCMs stop returning back.

In the past both Tumbela and Nym have mated with the ximungwe ladies so maybe the girls can use their magic flirty powers and convince Tumbela and Nym that the cubs are theirs!
What are the chances the second/older ximungwe will come into estrus? 
The 2 used to hang out with Tumbela but once they had the little cubs the ladies avoided Tumbela, I’ve wondered if they have met in the past (with the cubs) but we just didn’t see it.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 05-22-2024

(05-21-2024, 11:48 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote:
(05-21-2024, 11:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-21-2024, 11:04 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Exactly, and it is not like the PCM have a crystal ball to show them NK/Tumbela killing their cubs. If they bump onto Ximhungwe they have absolutely no reason not to kill them especially if PCM are in the north where their roars can't even be heard in the Western Sector.

Same as Tumbela/NK doesnt have crystal ball either to show them that PCMs are not lying in the next bush waiting to kill them.

I am talking about current situation, 1 of PCMs was in western sector just yesterday or so, and until NK/Tumbela are not 100% sure these 2 are not near, they will not do anything.

That might changes in few weeks or months in future, if PCMs stop returning back.

In the past both Tumbela and Nym have mated with the ximungwe ladies so maybe the girls can use their magic flirty powers and convince Tumbela and Nym that the cubs are theirs!
What are the chances the second/older ximungwe will come into estrus? 
The 2 used to hang out with Tumbela but once they had the little cubs the ladies avoided Tumbela, I’ve wondered if they have met in the past (with the cubs) but we just didn’t see it.

Someone, not known who, killed Ximungwe's last cubs. Since he had been spending quite a bit of time with her, even mating with her, it is believed that Skorro Jr may have been responsible. Though, in that instance, there was a good chance that he was indeed the father. Both he and the PCMs were in the area around that time, and if memory serves, both had mated with her. So, it is anyone's guess, actually, who killed the cub, but both groups had equal chance to be the father, regardless of who actually was responsible for the death.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - NLAL11 - 05-22-2024

Elephant Plains Lion Sightings 13-19 May

https://elephantplains.co.za/big-5-blog/2024/05/weekly-big-five-sightings-13-19-may-2024/

Tuesday, 14 May 2024
  • Two Plans Camp male lions and five Nkuhuma lioness stationary at Arathusa Safari Open Area.
Wednesday, 15 May 2024
  • One Plains Camp male lion mating with one Nkuhuma lioness on Arathusa Safari Delivery Road, the other Plains Camp male mating with another lioness on the Northern side of Arathusa Safari Airstrip.
Friday, 17 May 2024
  • Nkuhuma pride of lions consisting of five lioness feeding on a cape buffalo kill on the Island
[*]


Sunday, 19 May 2024
  • Two Talamati lions being chased off of a giraffe carcass by five Nkuhuma lioness on Mabuza Road West of Morning Side.
  • One Plains Camp male lion stole an impala kill from a leopard on Marula Bult Central West.
[*]


*This image is copyright of its original author



So it would seem that one of the sub adult Nkuhuma girls is hanging with the lionesses and PC males, and seems to have been accepted. This is good news for her and her sisters.

On a not so positive note, it's concerning that still only two Talamatis have been sighted.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 05-22-2024

(05-22-2024, 06:01 AM)NLAL11 Wrote: Elephant Plains Lion Sightings 13-19 May

https://elephantplains.co.za/big-5-blog/2024/05/weekly-big-five-sightings-13-19-may-2024/

Tuesday, 14 May 2024
  • Two Plans Camp male lions and five Nkuhuma lioness stationary at Arathusa Safari Open Area.
Wednesday, 15 May 2024
  • One Plains Camp male lion mating with one Nkuhuma lioness on Arathusa Safari Delivery Road, the other Plains Camp male mating with another lioness on the Northern side of Arathusa Safari Airstrip.
Friday, 17 May 2024
  • Nkuhuma pride of lions consisting of five lioness feeding on a cape buffalo kill on the Island
[*]


Sunday, 19 May 2024
  • Two Talamati lions being chased off of a giraffe carcass by five Nkuhuma lioness on Mabuza Road West of Morning Side.
  • One Plains Camp male lion stole an impala kill from a leopard on Marula Bult Central West.
[*]


*This image is copyright of its original author



So it would seem that one of the sub adult Nkuhuma girls is hanging with the lionesses and PC males, and seems to have been accepted. This is good news for her and her sisters.

On a not so positive note, it's concerning that still only two Talamatis have been sighted.
[*]

I am not sure how old the last Talamati adult female is, if she is young enough to see more cubs to independence. If she isn't we might be witnessing the end of that storied pride, and the Talamati name, which is precisely why it bothered me so much when they chose to rename the breakaways.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 05-22-2024

@NLAL11 don't be so sure yet regarding the sub being accepted, OM's daughter was seen with the pride and PCM at least 2 times before they killed her.

Yes NK sub is much older, but there's a reason the other subs are keeping their distance, not only that but the PCM killed even Chela who was an adult, the female subs are certainly not safe.

Also, don't forget that the Othawas are 2 or so months older than the NK subs but the PCM have chased one of them just a few days ago ( 1/2 was confirmed to have been chased by them in Singita when she was split from her sister after being chased by unknown lions, probably PCM or Ximhungwe ).

And yeah things don't look good for the Talamati female sub, the brother went missing once or twice but rejoined quickly so I was hopeful for the sister, however it has been a while now without the female sub showing up.

And without the female sub it'll be basically impossible for the already aging Talamati adult to rebuild her pride surrounded by rival lions.

The name Talamati will be on the brink of extinction if the female sub don't show up, which is heart breaking.

Edit: actually I think the adult is still in her prime, probably born in early 2016. Problem is that she needs to raise a litter that includes female cubs, raise a litter alone in tough spot with bigger prides and rival males everywhere.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 05-22-2024





RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - NLAL11 - 05-22-2024

(05-22-2024, 06:43 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @NLAL11 don't be so sure yet regarding the sub being accepted, OM's daughter was seen with the pride and PCM at least 2 times before they killed her.

Yes NK sub is much older, but there's a reason the other subs are keeping their distance, not only that but the PCM killed even Chela who was an adult, the female subs are certainly not safe.

Also, don't forget that the Othawas are 2 or so months older than the NK subs but the PCM have chased one of them just a few days ago ( 1/2 was confirmed to have been chased by them in Singita when she was split from her sister after being chased by unknown lions, probably PCM or Ximhungwe ).

And yeah things don't look good for the Talamati female sub, the brother went missing once or twice but rejoined quickly so I was hopeful for the sister, however it has been a while now without the female sub showing up.

And without the female sub it'll be basically impossible for the already aging Talamati adult to rebuild her pride surrounded by rival lions.

The name Talamati will be on the brink of extinction if the female sub don't show up, which is heart breaking.

Edit: actually I think the adult is still in her prime, probably born in early 2016. Problem is that she's need to raise a litter that includes female cubs, raise a litter alone in tough spot with bigger prides and rival males everywhere.

Yes I realise it's too soon to know exactly what will happen but it's a promising sign. One of the Southern subs was mating when she was younger than both the Othawa girls and the Nkuhuma subs, while her sister took a bit longer to reach that point. The Kambula breakaway lioness with her brothers is now 5 and still yet to mate and have cubs. So these things don't always follow the 'rules'.

The PC males killing Chela made zero sense from a biological perspective. She was the matriarch, the leader and most experienced lioness. Not only does it give them one less lioness to mate with, but the pride is significantly weaker without her. But it's what happened.

Hopefully you're right about the birth year of the Talamati lioness. If she's one of the Selati daughters then that would add up. She has a tough road ahead of her. But she is tough. Not every lion can say they've survived a snaring incident, and she's still here. She needs to find a good male or two like the Tsalala lioness did, that will visit her and the cubs and keep her safe. At least if the Nkuhumas do shift their territory a bit towards the west that will her a bit more breathing room.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - NLAL11 - 05-22-2024

Ndzenga/N'waswitshaka males and kambulas pictured in a Londolozi blog.

https://blog.londolozi.com/2024/05/20/kambula-pride-take-down-buffalo/


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 05-22-2024

(05-22-2024, 04:05 PM)KM600 Wrote:


How long will they go without a response before they decide to be something?

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T I N O - 05-22-2024

Seeing them roaring is really good, it means they gain the confidence again to roar in an area which is being dominated by another coalition. Let’s see if they can hold with the Plains camp males

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BA0701 - 05-22-2024

(05-22-2024, 05:34 PM)T I N O Wrote: Seeing them roaring is really good, it means they gain the confidence again to roar in an area which is being dominated by another coalition. Let’s see if they can hold with the Plains camp males

I was just going to say, it certainly seems they have found their confidence as a team to be roaring in an area they know is dominated. Not sure how they will respond if/when the PCM return, especially in response to their roars, but if only one returns, and these two have figured out how to work together through killing buffalo, etc..., it could mean trouble.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KM600 - 05-22-2024

(05-22-2024, 05:16 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote:
(05-22-2024, 04:05 PM)KM600 Wrote:


How long will they go without a response before they decide to be something?

There shouldn’t necessarily be a time frame but as of right now, they’ll still be picking up on fresh scent marks of both PCMs. They’d first have to know for sure that the area is vacated so if PCMs don’t start responding they will eventually start to explore more and their confidence will grow. 

The worst thing that could happen is that these two stumble into either Ximhungwes or Mhangenis and realise the PCMs are elsewhere. Lionesses may prevail once or twice in protecting their young but with no protection from PCMs, it’s only ending one way.