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+--- Thread: Skulls, Skeletons, Canines & Claws (/topic-skulls-skeletons-canines-claws)
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RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - Betty - 05-01-2018
Pioneer identification of fake tiger claws using morphometric and DNA-based analysis in wildlife forensics in India.
Fig. 4. X-rays showing varying keratin density in tiger (A) and leopard (B) claws and homogeneous density in the seized claws.
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27322503
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 05-01-2018
(05-01-2018, 07:33 AM)Betty Wrote: Kruger Lion
Contains the data for the thickest part of the canine tooth root. Surprisingly, the data for the thickest part of the root is only 3.1 cm. According to my experience, the canine teeth of the captive lion can exceed 3.3 cm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The thickest part of the canine at the root part can probably exceed 3.5 cm, even close to 4 cm.
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - Betty - 05-01-2018
(05-01-2018, 09:49 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:(05-01-2018, 07:33 AM)Betty Wrote: Kruger Lion
Contains the data for the thickest part of the canine tooth root. Surprisingly, the data for the thickest part of the root is only 3.1 cm. According to my experience, the canine teeth of the captive lion can exceed 3.3 cm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The canine teeth with a canine tooth root width of 3.5cm are very rare.
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 05-01-2018
@Betty
There are some Indochinese tiger canines with 3.6 cm width at the root, and the canine itself it is only a little bit over 12 cm.
The broadest Amur tiger canine is around 5 cm at the root.
BTW, the longest African lion canine is around 13.7 cm, and if it is a robust one, then it will probably be over 3.5 cm, perhaps close to 4 cm.
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - Betty - 05-15-2018
Tiger
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 06-09-2018
Giant jaguar
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - epaiva - 06-09-2018
(06-09-2018, 03:43 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Giant jaguar
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge Jaguar fangs it would be great to know their measurements
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 06-09-2018
(06-09-2018, 04:10 AM)epaiva Wrote:(06-09-2018, 03:43 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Giant jaguar
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge Jaguar fangs it would be great to know their measurements
With my intuition, probably close to 12 cm, indeed some freak of the nature.
RE: Huge tiger skulls - tigerluver - 06-20-2018
*This image is copyright of its original author
@peter , @GrizzlyClaws , are there any more detailed measurements on this skull? Also which book/article is this from? The citation seems to be "Loukashkin, A. S. (1938). The manchurian tiger. China J., Shanghai, 28, 127-133." but the trails runs dry beyond that.
RE: Huge tiger skulls - GrizzlyClaws - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 06:39 AM)tigerluver Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
@peter , @GrizzlyClaws , are there any more detailed measurements on this skull? Also which book/article is this from? The citation seems to be "Loukashkin, A. S. (1938). The manchurian tiger. China J., Shanghai, 28, 127-133." but the trails runs dry beyond that.
Except the GSL was given to be 406 mm, and the zygomatic width was alleged to be around 280 mm, but I am not quite sure.
RE: Huge tiger skulls - peter - 06-21-2018
(06-20-2018, 06:39 AM)tigerluver Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
@peter , @GrizzlyClaws , are there any more detailed measurements on this skull? Also which book/article is this from? The citation seems to be "Loukashkin, A. S. (1938). The manchurian tiger. China J., Shanghai, 28, 127-133." but the trails runs dry beyond that.
The photograph is from V. Mazak's 'Der Tiger' (1983). Here's the story.
According to V. Mazak, the photograph (65 x 90 mm.), most probably, was made by a European living in the northern part of China in the thirties of the last century. Mazak got it from J. Bartusek from the former Czechoslovakian Orient Institute. When he visited China in the sixties of the last century, he received it from an official source.
The measurements of the skull from Chanwangshai (northeastern China) were written on the back of the photograph.
In order to prevent misinterpretations and confusion, I decided to scan the pages 193-195 from Mazak's book (in German). The story on the photograph starts halfway page 193:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Mazak thought that the measurements were genuine, " ... da man Schadel dieser Abmessungen bei außergewohnlich großen Tieren erwarten kann ... " (pp. 194).
Wild Amur tigers of exceptional size have been discussed before. One of these was the tiger shot in 1943 by Sin-En-Tschzin. The debate about this tiger was about its weight, not the skull. The skull, however, was exceptional:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Although wild Amur tigers of exceptional size have not been seen by biologists in the period 1992-2018, some large captive male Amur tigers have been measured. One of these, the famous Duisburg zoo tiger, was 320 cm. in total length in a straight line. Almost as long as the large male of the Prague Zoo measured by V. Mazak, but more robust. In this department, he compared to the giant shot in 1943. The length of his head was 50 cm.:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This tiger no doubt had a very large skull, but my guess is the skull was never measured. This means that those interested had to continue swimming in circles.
Than this photograph was published in a paper:
*This image is copyright of its original author
It is about the 125 mm. scale just below the skull, as it enables a quite accurate estimate. My attempts resulted in at greatest total length of at least 420 mm. and a rostrum width of about 122 mm. Unheard of, but possible when the owner is exceptional in size. And there's no question he was:
*This image is copyright of its original author
If we add the skull of an old Amur tiger from a Japanese zoo described in a paper discussed in the thread 'On the Edge of Extinction - A - The tiger (Panthera tigris)', the conclusion is that the table of V. Mazak often used in books has to be updated. I'm not too sure about the average length of captive and wild male Amur tigers, but it's clear that the greatest total skull length of large individuals ranges between 360-406 mm., apparently even up to 420-430 mm.
The head and body length of the Koln Zoo tiger (see the last photograph), by the way, was 240 cm. (...). The tigress, still alive as far as I know, also is a large animal.
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - Betty - 06-27-2018
Indochinese tiger
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 06-29-2018
A set of atypical lion canine teeth with broad root. @Spalea
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - Spalea - 06-29-2018
@GrizzlyClaws :
About #1387: Thank you for showing me that ! I really appreciate.
Thus, candid question: how do you recognize these lion's fangs with tiger's fangs ? By the slot(s) at the top of the fang ?
Length ? In average, the tigers' fang are 2 or 3 millimeters longer, so it isn't a determining factor.
Weight ? I don't think either.
RE: Big Cat's Canines and Claws - GrizzlyClaws - 06-29-2018
(06-29-2018, 03:41 PM)Spalea Wrote: @GrizzlyClaws :
About #1387: Thank you for showing me that ! I really appreciate.
Thus, candid question: how do you recognize these lion's fangs with tiger's fangs ? By the slot(s) at the top of the fang ?
Length ? In average, the tigers' fang are 2 or 3 millimeters longer, so it isn't a determining factor.
Weight ? I don't think either.
Most lion fangs have narrower but also more elongated root, the aforementioned post showed you an atypical set of lion fangs with shorter and broader root like that of the tigers.
However, the remarkable difference is that the tiger fangs have smoother texture.
And there are also many factors to define the weight; you can see the post #1366 how the canine teeth of a subadult tiger looks lighter in comparison.