(06-19-2018, 05:43 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Some males from Okavango, seems to have some characteristics from cave lions just look at this magnificent specimens mane! 

*This image is copyright of its original author

(12-03-2017, 11:56 PM)tigerluver Wrote: Panthera atrox in South America?

A new paper was just published stating that a fossil pantherine of South America, known as P. onca mesembrina, has been misidentified at least a few times. The true identity of this cat they assert is Panthera atrox. Their assertion is based on morphological similarities of the specimen to P. atrox rather than the jaguar. The skull they reference is the best example of their point. The paper.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Take a look at the above photos. Which species does the skull in the top photo looks most similar too? Based on visibility of the incisive foramina and the nasal shape, the authors conclude that the skull is actually of P. atrox.

At first take, the logic looks good. However, Dr. Ross Barnett disagrees, mentioning on twitter that cats of these areas have been DNA tested and shown to be jaguar. He cited this paper. 

The authors in a way already had a response built into the paper to such a rebuttal, stating that the ancient jaguar and American lion would have shared the domain. So what does everyone think? Is this skull of a jaguar or an American lion?

(10-03-2018, 03:01 AM)epaiva Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

(10-03-2018, 04:47 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:

(10-03-2018, 03:01 AM)epaiva Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Notice the two Cave lion subspecies had been diverged much longer between themselves than the distance between the modern tiger/lion subspecies.

*This image is copyright of its original author

(10-03-2018, 04:47 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:

(10-03-2018, 03:01 AM)epaiva Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Notice the two Cave lion subspecies had been diverged much longer between themselves than the distance between the modern tiger/lion subspecies.

*This image is copyright of its original author

(10-03-2018, 05:52 AM)epaiva Wrote:

(10-03-2018, 04:47 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:

(10-03-2018, 03:01 AM)epaiva Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Notice the two Cave lion subspecies had been diverged much longer between themselves than the distance between the modern tiger/lion subspecies.

*This image is copyright of its original author

@GrizzlyClaws
What was the size of the Beringia Lion?

(10-08-2018, 04:30 PM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Panthera leo spelaea skull discovered in Francehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lions_in_Europe#/media/File:Panthera_leo_spelaea_MHNT.PAL.2009.0.1_Montmaurin_Pl%C3%A9istoc%C3%A8ne.jpg

(11-14-2017, 07:13 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Frozen Remains of Extinct Lion Found in Russia

(11-03-2016, 09:42 PM)Ngala Wrote: Extinct lion cubs found in Siberia are up to 55,000 years old - latest test results reveal
By The Siberian Times reporter03 November 2016
Tantalising studies now underway to establish if one of two carcases preserved by permafrost has traces of world's oldest mother's milk.

New research indicates they are at least twice as old, living between 25,000 and 55,000 years ago, with one of them 'perfectly' preserved. Picture: Vera Salnitskaya

*This image is copyright of its original author

The lion cubs found in summer 2015 were previously believed to be at least 12,000 years old. But new research indicates they are at least twice as old, living between 25,000 and 55,000 years ago, with one of them 'perfectly' preserved. 

These cave lion siblings - which became extinct around 10,000 BC - were between one and two weeks old when they were killed in a likely prehistoric ceiling collapse in their den.

Intriguingly, the tails of the ancient cubs were short compared with modern lions - 23% of their body length compared with 60%.

Scientists have now established the cubs - named Uyan and Dina- were found in Edoma permafrost deposits  formed during the Karginskii interstadial, a warmer period late in the Ice Age from 25,000 to 55,000 years ago.

The scientists want to extract all possible knowledge but at the same time cause 'minimum damage to the ancient cave lion'. Pictures: Vera Salnitskaya

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Dr Albert Protopopov, one of the main researchers, said: 'That means that the cubs were not younger than 25,000 years old. Previously the youngest date for the cubs was 12,000, the time when the cave lions become extinct.'

The 'exact data' on their age will be calculated later. 'The analysis is not finished yet,' he said. 'As for their age when they died - we think that they were 1 to 2 weeks old. 

'We made a CT scan and saw that their teeth had not appeared yet. Based on a comparison with African lions, we concluded that they were younger than one month, most likely between 1 and 2 weeks old.'

Dr Protopopov, head of the Department of Mammoth Fauna, Academy of Sciences of the Sakha Republic (Yakutia), said: 'The CT scan also helped us to check the state of the inner organs of cubs. 

Dr Albert Protopopov, one of the main researchers, said: 'That means that the cubs were not younger than 25,000 years old.' Picture: Vera Salnitskaya

*This image is copyright of its original author

'One of cubs, Uyan, is more preserved and the CT showed us that there is something in its stomach. Now we are discussing between us: what is it - mother's milk or some other substance.' 

The 'opaque white fluid' might be milk but could also be gastric fluid. The scientists want to extract all possible knowledge but at the same time cause 'minimum damage to the ancient cave lion.

'With the milk, it is very interesting, but we need to think twice before doing something,' he said. 'The finds are really unique and any reckless action by us can damage them. We think that that perhaps we can use some unobtrusive  method to research the cub's stomach.'

DNA analysis confirms the cubs are cave lions but they hope for better quality analysis when samples are taken from internal organs.

'We also plan to conduct radioisotope analysis to learn about their environment, what did they eat and what is more important - what did their mother eat and from where she came,' he said. 'We plan to make another more powerful CT scan to get more detailed information about their intestines.' 

South Korean cloning guru Hwang Woo-suk took is believed to have taken samples from one of the cubs. Pictures: Galina Mozolevskaya/YSIA

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

The cubs were dug last year from their icy grave 'complete with all their body parts: fur, ears, soft tissue and even whiskers', said Dr Protopopov.

South Korean cloning guru Hwang Woo-suk took is believed to have taken samples from one of the cubs, found close to the Uyandina River. He is also hoping to clone the extinct woolly mammoth. 

Cave lions - Panthera spelaea (Goldfuss) - lived during Middle and Late Pleistocene times on the Eurasian continent, from the British Isles to Chukotka in the extreme east of Russia, and they also roamed Alaska and northwestern Canada.

Research on the two cubs could help to explain why the species died out, since the animal had few predators, was smaller than herbivores, and was not prone to getting bogged down in swamps, as did woolly mammoths and rhinos. One theory is that they were hunted for their skins by ancient man.

The cubs were found in Abyisky district, on the bank of the Uyandina River, in 57 kilometres from Belaya Gora village. Pictures: The Siberian Times, Vera Salnitskaya

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

The latest results of research on the cubs were presented at the recent annual meeting of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology in Salt Lake City.

Research was conducted by scientists from Russia and the US, namely the Yakutian Academy of Sciences, Yakutsk; the Diamond and Precious Metals Geology Institute, Russian Academy of Sciences, Yakutsk; the Institute of Human Morphology, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow; the Borissiak Paleontological Institute, Russian Academy of the Sciences, Moscow; the Mammoth Site of Hot Springs, Hot Springs, South Dakota; and the  University of California Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz, California.