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+--- Thread: Can a Lone Male Lion have a successful predation on a Adult Bull Buffalo? (/topic-can-a-lone-male-lion-have-a-successful-predation-on-a-adult-bull-buffalo)
[split] Lion Predation - Pantherinae - 01-18-2015
well aggression in regards to the three bovines is ofc an estimate and almost every aminal can be domesticated or tame, but watching and reading cape buffalos attacking hunters, defending themselves against multiplie lions etc, and gaurs don't really care much about a photagarpher is walking a couple of feet from them, I just assume that cape buffalos are more aggressive.
the Raja vs gaur clip is not the most impressive kill I've seen, that gaur is small, and looks sick (tigers can take down much bigger gaurs than that!!). these kill by lions are more impressive IMO
this is a bull buffalo taken down with ease by two males
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-18-2015
Oh BTW,
Here's a vid of a single male lion thats taken down a bull buffalo. Cant wait for the inevitable disclaimer
from my fellow compatriot. Should be entertaining.
http://youtu.be/UPOCZ4dAr8k
RE: Lion Predation - Pantherinae - 01-18-2015
(01-18-2015, 10:28 PM)'chaos' Wrote: Oh BTW,
Here's a vid of a single male lion thats taken down a bull buffalo. Cant wait for the inevitable disclaimer
from my fellow compatriot. Should be entertaining.
http://youtu.be/UPOCZ4dAr8k
they say lions attacked yesterday, not lion so probably there where more lions attacking it. but that doesnt change anything a lion can and will kill bull buffalos!
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-18-2015
(01-18-2015, 10:55 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:(01-18-2015, 10:28 PM)'chaos' Wrote: Oh BTW,
Here's a vid of a single male lion thats taken down a bull buffalo. Cant wait for the inevitable disclaimer
from my fellow compatriot. Should be entertaining.
http://youtu.be/UPOCZ4dAr8k
they say lions attacked yesterday, not lion so probably there where more lions attacking it. but that doesnt change anything a lion can and will kill bull buffalos!
I believe his pronunciation was incorrect. Any other lions present would have immediately finished off the bull
quite easily. Besides, do you think they'd leave a meal behind? Also, do you think the film crew waited around
for 22 hours? Not a chance
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-19-2015
(01-18-2015, 10:39 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:According to you, you have never seen a wild Gaur. So a captive animal is pointless to compare. The weight difference is absolutely what they say it is, since the actual weights are posted and verified.'TheLioness dateline='' Wrote: That gaur raja killed seemed rather weak, didnt fight not a bit, for a bovine thats suppose to be much stronger and bigger than cape buffalo, it doesn't show much impressiveness. Was rather small too, very thin, no herd, cow, maybe gave birth and was weak?Well I've been around cape buffalos and ones working with them, and seen wild ones. i have just seen one gaur bull, but The size difference is nowhere near as big as many people think, atleast with my own sighting's, I did not even see any preticular differrences if I looked at The whole animals gaur was taller that's it. Gaur's are tanks while cape buffalos Looks more athletic. I guess The biggest bull gaur's has a larger size advantage, but that doesn't make them a superior animal IMO, a gaur is definatly taller, a little longer and heavy'er, but like I was just some day's ago out filming eagles and a large adult female white tailed eagle, was chased away by a young male golden eagle, it doesn't always depend on weight and size, if The size is close, many factors can play a big part, lower center of gravity, agility, speed, weaponanry and aggression to mention a few.
Let's just say I've seen more impressive gaur's than that. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-19-2015
(01-18-2015, 09:42 PM)'chaos' Wrote:(01-18-2015, 09:07 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: @Pantherinae , First of all this is for information section, We have made another section for discussion. So any long debate should be there.
As @chaos said majority of us have bitter experience on AVA. The result was loss of lot of valuable data and fallback of AVA. Other sincere and senior experts don't want to join a place where things like LvT keep going.
I am sure and all other are 100% sure that you can not convince Pckts with your data and Same with others. The result will be long post with only LvT discussion and this will bring back AVA 2.
Discussion is allowed, But the way discussion should be. Not teasing, trolling and hypothetical thoughts.
The Basic Rule of discussion is RESPECT for each other while agreeing or disagreeing with whom you are discussing.
2nd Important point is to NOT in race of putting your last word. You put your point convincing the opponent, 2 or 3 times, If you see he is not ready to agree with you, Its better to quit the debate (showing maturity). So a good poster know when to quit. You can not keep whole year convincing each other with same point.
We never stop you from posting your points , We only act when we see thing is going out of control. As you can see there is lot of discussion between you and pckts, But we entered here to stop when you guys made at least 6-7 posts and we find that this will not stop.
Let me know if you feel I am 100% wrong. Will try to improve myself. Our Aim is to provide clean and healthy environment but we can also make mistake as administrator, so please free to point out our bad decision
~~2nd Important point is to NOT in race of putting your last word.
This is of particular amusement. Pockets asolutely excels in this capacity. I'm no slouch myself.
Acknowledged Sanjay.
The use of the word "DATA" is what I am asking about.
Please feel free and provide any "DATA", I would love to see it. In fact, I have asked for it for some time.
There is a reason that @Pantherinae and I can discuss this with a more realistic debate while the likes of Chaos or Lioness use more of a personal attitude and resort to name calling or implications.
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-19-2015
(01-18-2015, 10:55 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:(01-18-2015, 10:28 PM)'chaos' Wrote: Oh BTW,
Here's a vid of a single male lion thats taken down a bull buffalo. Cant wait for the inevitable disclaimer
from my fellow compatriot. Should be entertaining.
http://youtu.be/UPOCZ4dAr8k
they say lions attacked yesterday, not lion so probably there where more lions attacking it. but that doesnt change anything a lion can and will kill bull buffalos!
Gotta love chaos with the biased argument again
"It was now 22 hours later and the buffalo bull the LIONS attacked yesterday was still alive. With the bull downed a lion feeds at its rump but when the pain becomes too much the buffalo rallies and gets to his feet but only barely. The lion hangs on and realising he isn't getting anywhere goes for the buffalo's achilles tendon downing the bull again. Will he survive another 22 hours?"
^^^ This is what I am talking about, this stuff is right infront of them, yet they refuse to acknowledge it and try to use it to "spite me"
If there is a valid account from a eye witness that shows a Lone bull buffalo being killed by a lone male lion, I will happily accept it. Like I have already stated, I am sure it has happened since there are vids of attempts by Lone lions on bulls, so they wouldn't attempt it if they don't think they can do it. But to this day, there is still nothing that proves it. That is a fact.
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-19-2015
(01-19-2015, 10:40 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:(01-18-2015, 10:55 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:(01-18-2015, 10:28 PM)'chaos' Wrote: Oh BTW,
Here's a vid of a single male lion thats taken down a bull buffalo. Cant wait for the inevitable disclaimer
from my fellow compatriot. Should be entertaining.
http://youtu.be/UPOCZ4dAr8k
they say lions attacked yesterday, not lion so probably there where more lions attacking it. but that doesnt change anything a lion can and will kill bull buffalos!
Gotta love chaos with the biased argument again
"It was now 22 hours later and the buffalo bull the LIONS attacked yesterday was still alive. With the bull downed a lion feeds at its rump but when the pain becomes too much the buffalo rallies and gets to his feet but only barely. The lion hangs on and realising he isn't getting anywhere goes for the buffalo's achilles tendon downing the bull again. Will he survive another 22 hours?"
^^^ This is what I am talking about, this stuff is right infront of them, yet they refuse to acknowledge it and try to use it to "spite me"
If there is a valid account from a eye witness that shows a Lone bull buffalo being killed by a lone male lion, I will happily accept it. Like I have already stated, I am sure it has happened since there are vids of attempts by Lone lions on bulls, so they wouldn't attempt it if they don't think they can do it. But to this day, there is still nothing that proves it. That is a fact.
Ahem.... Where are the other lions? They simply don't walk away from a meal. My take is the narrators mistake of pronunciation,
along with the fact, multiple lions would have completed the task much,much sooner. Your expected response is full of holes. The
fact no other lions are present seals it. Now, who's resorting to "name calling or implications" ? Feeling a little persecuted, are we?
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-19-2015
What are you talking about, it specifically states
"It was now 22 hours later and the buffalo bull the LIONS attacked yesterday was still alive."
Meaning they attacked the day before and the buffalo has been battling them for some time. Hence what the EYE WITNESS states and the person who filmed the event. Yet you are trying to say they made a mistake with "pronunciation" while its a written statement.
So the FACT that the witness specifically states that lions attacked it the day before, means nothing to to you. You would rather disregard one major part of the event to be "right". That is ridicolous.
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-19-2015
You have difficulty with common sense and logic. Where's the other lions? Maybe our narrator has a speech impediment
or a lisp. Who knows. One thing thats indisputable; there's one, and only one lion in that video battling the buffalo.I've never
seen or heard of any lions walking away from any attack they were in control of. That makes perfect sense.
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-19-2015
Once again, it is WRITTEN in the description. So obviously a "speech impediment or lisp" would play no role.
"You have difficulty with common sense and logic"
So obviously this statement ^^ is total hypocritical non sense written by somebody suffering from the affliction you are trying to attribute to me. Once again showing that it is you who resorts to name calling since you can't provide actual evidence to back a outrageous claim of the narrator having a "lisp or speech impediment".
Then lioness with this gem
"Can we get back on topic now guys we have all been warned, pckts will continue to deny the proof we have because it is not exactly what he wants to believe, even when we post things that are EXACTLY the same as a tiger predation. "
What did I deny? A buffalo carcass being preyed upon. With no video of a hunt, no idea of the sex, no description etc. While you claim it to be a lone male lion killing a bull buffalo.
Ok, and its me who is "denying proof"
Unreal.
I have no desire to debate with the likes of you or lioness about this anymore, I will keep it between pantherinae and other more reasonable posters.
RE: Lion Predation - faess - 01-19-2015
I posted an account of a single wolf killing a bison and the mechanical damage of the komodo dragon is enough to disembowl an animal the size of a cape buffalo within a few bites
*This image is copyright of its original author
But to stay on topic Packer mentions that a single lion taking down a male buffalo is unlikely
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-20-2015
(01-19-2015, 11:59 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: All I know is that komodo dragon nip at buffalo, the wounds never coagulate and they became weak from infection over time. Usually days, while the komodo take follow and bite them until they finally give in. While a lone wolf taking down a bison is extremely impressive, we still need to know many factors. Was the bison, old, young, wounded, sick etc.
I think we all know that a lone wolf is not taking down a full grown healthy bison. Just watch the predation of the wolf pack on the smaller bison, the entire pack is chasing the bison then all of a sudden a massive full grown bison comes and flips the smaller bison over and thats when you get a idea of what a full grown bison looks like.
"But to stay on topic Packer mentions that a single lion taking down a male buffalo is unlikely "
And I would agree with Packer and considering he knows Lion better than anyone in the world, I think his word is pretty solid.
I'd like see proof of that.
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-20-2015
(01-20-2015, 12:02 AM)'chaos' Wrote: I would appreciate your take on the single lion with the bull buffalo. Where are the other lions? Do you think they
would just leave a kill in the making? Also, if more than one lion was present on the attack, do you think it would
necessitate 22+ hours? Lions kill with a throat bite. That bull would logically have succumbed to just that fate if
multiple lions were present. Isn't it possible the narrator made a very simple mistake in pronunciation, which was
reflected in the abstract of the description you quoted? It was one "s". Based on the video shown, there's a high
probability of that scenario. Thats what I mean by common sense and logic.
Its a 22+ hour event, the park closes so visitors must leave, camera batteries run out etc. Park officials relay events occuring to other officials then they must drive to the event. So lots of things can happen in that time, etc.
I have heard of a few events taking 20 + hours, there is a tiger vs sambar predation that took 20 plus hours, predation on elephant that have taken all night and day etc, lots of predation occur over a couple of days. The odin Bull gaur vs Male tiger event took all night and they believed the tiger was going to begin the attack again. Thats why they found the tigers pug marks following the bloody hoof marks of odin after the attack happened all night. They wound a animal, wait for night fall and attack again or just regain their strength, etc.
I will never try to claim something happened or did not happen when I was not there and they were.
RE: Lion Predation - faess - 01-20-2015
I'm trying to find the site where I read the source from but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm8XIRo8b-s
He more or less says the same around 9:00 but wasn't as specific.