There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

Posted by: peter - 04-18-2014, 05:04 AM - Forum: Aquatic Animals and Amphibians - Replies (72)

This shark, an adult male, featured in a recent documentary on white sharks which was broadcasted on the National Geographic Channel (could have been Discovery). The sharks were caught with a line in a small boat (dinghy), exhausted (by using buoys), 'guided' towards a research ship and, with an elevator, lifted out of the water. Before they were released, a transmitter was put in the dorsal fin (see photograph). The transmitter transferred a signal every time the dorsal fin broke the surface. In this way, they were able to follow the shark for a considerable amount of time. 

I read an article recently. Most white sharks west of California move between California and Hawai, so it seems. It could be they meet there to mate, but they were not sure.

This is the shark on the elevator just before he was released. At 17 feet and 9 inches, he was the longest they measured:

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  Canids and Ursids Interactions
Posted by: peter - 04-17-2014, 04:46 AM - Forum: Carnivorous and Omnivores Animals, Excluding Felids - Replies (12)
Male brown bear and wolf. They had been playing. Wild animals (L. Rautiainen):

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  Cause for extinction of other species?
Posted by: Vinod - 04-16-2014, 02:04 PM - Forum: Questions - Replies (10)

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I'm not talking about extinction that occurred during the ordovician & devonian periods but reltively in recent times. I think European colonialism & expansionism is the major factor here.

Lack of Hindu (Indian) concepts like Advaita (nonduality- fundamental intrinsic oneness) & Jivadaya (care for all living creatures) in the Western thought explains why they (westerners) love trophy & canned hunting. Hunting by Indian Maharajahs is a British/Moghul influence.

you can read more about animal extinction here:

canned hunting:

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  Who is the "King" of the tigers?
Posted by: GuateGojira - 04-16-2014, 06:28 AM - Forum: Tiger - Replies (352)
This topic was made with the purpose to finally state with of these two tigers is/was the largest, using the available data and the reliable records. Also, it will clarify what characteristics make the Amur and the Bengal tiger an unique animal and what adaptations were made in order to create a completely adapted form. Enjoy the reading and help with information.
Which is the largest of the tigers? The better form to understand this question is to state the three points of view: 1-the skull size, 2-the body size and 3-the body weight.


1. Skull size:
Very few people have investigated the skull of the Amur tiger, and the only large database has been provided by Dr Vratislav Mazák. Although he is the only one that presents a large more or less representative sample, he made the mistake of including captive specimens, so his figures, although reliable, have this little problem; I don’t know if his sample of Bengal tigers suffer of this situation, however what it is sure is that the largest skulls recorded by him came from wild specimens. According with the investigation of Dr Vratislav Mazák, the Amur tiger is the largest of the tigers and his measurements on 227 skulls shows that the Amur tigers have the largest overall skulls. The average figures (greatest skull length) that he published in his book “Der Tiger” of 1983, were of 367.1 mm (n=8; range: 341-383 mm) for Amur males and 353.4 mm (n=36; range: 329-378 mm) for Bengal males. However, at least for the Bengal tigers, there are other scientists that have calculated other average figures.
I manage to collect 63 Bengal tiger skulls measurements from reliable sources, and 20 Amur tiger skulls (including those from Mazák, in the last case). The problem with the Bengal sample is that old records mostly present only greatest length and zigomatic wide, while only the pure scientific sources presents other important measurements like the condylobasal length. This seems not the case with the Amur tiger skulls. For the female side, I collected 12 Bengal females and 15 Amur ones.
With the Bengal tigers, there are three sources for the records:
1. The scientific sources: These are the measurements taken by scientists and naturalists from wild specimens, this are automatically accepted. Among this sample I can quote Pocock and Sterndale, among others.
2. The first hand sources: These measurements came from well know hunters and from first hand sources. As they were not taken by scientists, its accuracy is open to question by some people, but the reputation of the collectors make them highly reliable. At this field I included Hewett, the Maharaja of Cooch Behar and Burton, among others.
3. The second hand sources: These figures are reliable, but they are open to question as they have been not verified by scientists. The records of Rowland Ward are included here.
For comparison purposes, I will use only the scientific sources for comparison with those of the Amur tiger, because they have the three principal measurements, but check all the results:

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The range of averages change between 352 to 374 mm, but it must be taken in count that just in the three last samples, we can be sure that the specimens used were fully wild. Including the average of 351 +/- 2.5 mm (n=37) from Yamaguchi et al. (2009), the overall average will be of 359.2 mm (n=134). This figure will be smaller than that of the Amur tiger, however we don’t know where Yamaguchi get his measurements (it is possible that he used the same specimens from European museums like Mazák), so using only wild specimens we get an average of 363.9 mm (n=61), which is about the same than the average for the Amur tigers.
These are the figures for the females, only for the scientific sources. I did not found other sources. Check the figure:
* Bengal tiger:             GSL                            CBL                        ZW
Females:                    295.6 mm (10)           266.4 mm (12)           196.2 mm (10)
                                271 – 312 mm            250 – 285 mm            185 – 203 mm
For comparison purposes, I am going to use an average mix of Mazák and the scientific sources, as these are the only ones that had poses the full set of measurements for comparison. The scientific sources for the Bengal are: Sterndale (1884), McDougal (1977), Pocock (1929-1939), Feiler & Stefen (2009) and Christiansen & Harris (2012).
The raw averages presents interesting figures check this out:

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Extreme records support the Bengal for the title, as the largest skull for the Amur males was a Manchurian specimen of 406 cm (Kitchener, 1996), while the largest Bengal skull measured 412.8 cm (Hewett, 1938). However, on average, it seems that Amur tigers have the largest measurements and based on this, it is easy to see why Mazák strongly stated that the Amur tiger is the largest subspecies of tiger. However, using all the data for the Bengal tigers, the difference between these and those from Russia is of no more than 8 millimeters.
These results summarize all the data on skulls that I have found in literature. Peter will present more measurements in the future, so my results presented here must be taken as preliminary until more data could be shown.
As far I know, there is no data about bone sizes of “pure breed” Bengal tigers, only about the Amur ones. Christiansen & Harris (2005) published the measurements on two “Bengal” specimens, but judging by the body size and weight, or they were very young specimens (specially the male, 145 kg) or they were just hybrids. However, the bones of the Amur tigers presented by them, rank among the largest in record and compete in size with the largest felids in fossil records (372.5 mm and 429.5 mm for the largest humerus and femur respectively).
Finally, in the canines department, Mazák (1981) report a maximum canine length of 74.5 mm, although he quotes Dr Gewalt for a canine of 90 mm in a captive specimen. Dr Christiansen report a maximum canine length of 59.4 mm for a skull with a CBL of 337.8 mm (CN6049), which suggest a larger canine for the specimen CN5698 which have a CBL of 350.9 mm. However, he quotes a canine length of 71.4 mm for a Bengal specimen (CN4552), which is practically of the same length than the largest canine reported by Mazák.
Dr Sunquist captured a huge male known as Sauraha (T-105), which have a canine length of 65 mm from the tip to the gum line. In the skull, this canine probably measured up to 70 mm. However, I recently bought the book “Tiger: the ultimate guide” of Valmik Thapar (2004), and in an article “Filming Tigers” from Mike Birkhead, he states that the large male known as “Madla” that was estimated at 250 kg with a neck of 90 cm, had upper canines that were about 75 mm! (Page 213). This is a new record among Bengal tigers and taking in count that this was measured to the gum line, this means a length of no less than 80 mm in the skull, surpassing any wild Amur tiger canine recorded.
In conclusion, the skull size suggest that the Amur tigers are slightly larger than those from Bengal, however the differences are between 20 to 8 millimeters, which is hardly significant for animals that are known to reach over 2 meters long and weighs over 250 kg. So, in a raw manner, we can conclude that Amur tigers do have larger skulls than the Bengal ones, but the extreme records suggest parity in sizes, in both skull and canine size.
In my next post, the point No. 2 – The body size.



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  Captive Lion and Tiger weights
Posted by: Pckts - 04-16-2014, 01:49 AM - Forum: Captive Animals - Replies (256)

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  Post about questions and problems in this thread
Posted by: peter - 04-14-2014, 09:42 PM - Forum: Suggestion, Feedback and Complaint - Replies (12)
Everyone. This is a new site. Everything new has to be tested. The best way to test is to just start and see what happens. We are, in fact, still running a trial. If you have questions, ask them here. Same for problems.    

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  Some posts are joining together to form one post ?????
Posted by: Apollo - 04-13-2014, 08:00 PM - Forum: Suggestion, Feedback and Complaint - Replies (4)
Actually Im facing a problem here, whenever I do several posts some of the posts are joining together to form one single post.
I dont no how to rectify this problem and its very annoying.
Can someone help me out here ?
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  Great wildlife sites/links
Posted by: Wanderfalke - 04-13-2014, 07:07 PM - Forum: Miscellaneous - No Replies
Today I just found two nice new sites about wildlife and big cats. So I thought it could be beneficial for everyone to collect such sites, blogs etc. here in a special thread.

This site might be known to some of you since it looks like a big company is behind it.

A nice blog with pictures, videos, links and news about big cats.

@ moderators: If this doesn´t fit into this sub category feel free to move it.

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  Lions and Tigers in India
Posted by: Jinenfordragon - 04-13-2014, 05:34 PM - Forum: Wild Cats - Replies (81)
The Times of India

Will Gir lions shifted to Kuno-Palpur sanctuary in Madhya Pradesh come into conflict with tigers that may have strayed from Ranthambore reserve in Rajasthan? For the first time, an NGO, Wildlife Conservation Trust-Rajkot, has joined as a party to the petition filed by the Rajasthan government claiming that there is a possibility of conflict between the two big cats because a natural movement corridor exists between Kuno and Ranthambore. The NGO had filed a petition earlier in the apex court against translocation of lions to Kuno-Palpur.

Citing reports that the male tiger, T-38, from Ramthambore had been found moving between the tiger reserve in Rajasthan and Kuno-Palpur, the petitioner, in an amendment to its petition moved on Monday, has claimed that "the court was never informed about the contiguity which the Ranthambore Tiger Reserve enjoys with Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary in Madhya Pradesh."

In its amended petition, the NGO says that Kuno lacks in prey base. Further, given its proximity to Ranthambore, introduction of lions in Kuno could have a severe impact on the population of tigers as lions can travel in search of food to Ramthambore.

The National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA), a statutory authority under the Centre, seems to support the NGOs' argument. In its report titled, 'State of Tigers, Co-predators and prey in India-2008', the NTCA supports the stand of Gujarat that Kuno-Palpur is a tiger-occupied area close to other tiger habitats including Ranthambhore. Further, as the proposed site for translocation of lions from Gir is close to the tiger areas, tigers keep frequenting the Kuno-Palpur sanctuary.

The NTCA report recommends that the potential habitat connectivity between Ranthambhore, Kuno-Palpur and reserve forests of MP's Sheopur district be improved "to form a viable arid zone westernmost Tiger Conservation Unit in India." The recommendations of the NTCA are legally binding under Section 38-V of the Wildlife (Protection) Act-1972, the NGO has submitted in its amended petition.

Movement of predators

In its order dated April 15, 2013, a division bench of the Supreme Court had dealt with the issue of co-existence of the tiger and lion. The bench had taken note of the fact that Dr. Asad Rehmani, director, Bombay Natural History Society and a member of the standing committee of the National Board for Wildlife (NBWL) had pointed out that presence of the tiger in Kuno was in no case detrimental to the re-introduction of lions.

Another member of the standing committee, Dr Divyabhanusinh Chavda, had also emphasized the need to create a second home for lions. However, the court had not taken into account the possibility of reverse movement of lions from Kuno to Ranthambore. Earlier, the Rajkot trust had filed a petition in the Supreme Court against the translocation of Gir lions to Kuno-Palpur sanctuary in Madhya Pradesh. But it had failed to mention the movement corridor between the two sanctuaries.
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  Bigcats News
Posted by: Apollo - 04-13-2014, 10:26 AM - Forum: Premier League - Replies (1453)
Post all Bigcats related News articles and Information.

Sansar Chand, notorious wildlife poacher, dead 

Notorious wildlife poacher Sansar Chand died of cancer at a hospital here on Tuesday, a doctor said. Sansar Chand, who was undergoing trial on charges of killing several tigers in Rajasthan's Sariska Tiger Reserve, was admitted to the Sawai Man Singh Hospital here few days ago, a doctor told IANS.  Resident of New Delhi, he is believed to be India's biggest wildlife criminal who has been responsible for more tiger and leopard deaths than anyone else. Sansar Chand was undergoing trial in connection with poaching of tigers at Sariska in Alwar district, some 150km from Jaipur. It was alleged that he was one of the smugglers responsible for disappearance of all the tigers from Sariska Tiger Resrve in 2005.  "He was lodged in the Alwar Central Jail and was brought to SMS Hospital last week. Tumours were detected in his lungs, brain and spinal cord. The cancer was in the last stage. Before being shifted to SMS, he was undergoing treatment at AIIMS in Delhi. He died while undergoing treatment today (Tuesday)," said the doctor. The district and sessions court in Alwar had rejected his bail application filed by his lawyers on the ground that he was terminally ill and suffering from cancer.  "However, the court had directed the court of additional chief judicial magistrate to hear the case on the daily basis to dispose of the case as soon as possible, since the accused is terminally ill," said his lawyer Ashok Sharma.  Diaries seized from Sansar Chand's family by the Rajasthan Police in 2004 allegedly showed transactions of 40 tiger skins and 400 leopard skins, in a period of just 11 months from October 2003 to September 2004.  During interrogation by the CBI in 2006, Sansar Chand apparently admitted to selling 470 tiger skins and 2,130 leopard skins to just four clients from Nepal and Tibet.

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