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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

Netherlands peter Offline
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Many thanks, Betty! Very interesting photographs. I take it that most of the tigers you posted were shot during Mao's Great Leap Forward, somewhere between 1950-1980?

I remember a post in AVA a long time ago. The information posted was based on scans from a Chinese book on mammals in China. Would you be able to find it and do a few posts?
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China Betty Offline
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(03-11-2017, 05:00 PM)peter Wrote: Many thanks, Betty! Very interesting photographs. I take it that most of the tigers you posted were shot during Mao's Great Leap Forward, somewhere between 1950-1980?

I remember a post in AVA a long time ago. The information posted was based on scans from a Chinese book on mammals in China. Would you be able to find it and do a few posts?

Yes, most of these pictures are taken during the Mao's Great Leap Forward.
Sorry, I do Not clear AVA post, can you give me a little hint?
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China Betty Offline
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Chengdu Zoo 
South China tiger.


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*This image is copyright of its original author

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*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
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India Rishi Online
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(03-15-2017, 03:24 PM)Betty Wrote: Chengdu Zoo 
South China tiger.


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

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*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

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I have two questions:
1. Exactly how many Chinese tigers are there presently (in captivity of course) left!?

2. And what has become of that much lauded, Laohu Valley based "Reintroduction Programme"...?? Weird
Any latest news or info?!...
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-17-2017, 03:16 PM by peter )

PANTHERA TIGRIS AMOYENSIS - B

b1 - Introduction

After the first post on the South China tiger (distribution), I intended for some information of Marco Polo, Pocock and Mazak first and a number of articles on the period 1950-1980 later. After reading the questions in the previous post, however, I decided for a different strategy. Hope you don't mind.      

b2 - A must read interview (Kit Chellel, 23-02-2016, Bloomberg Businessweek) 

This interview will answer the questions you have, Rishi. It's lengthy, but very interesting:

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-...na-tigers/

As it's lengthy, I'll post a summary later. For now, it's important to remember that the the South China tiger, according to the WWF, is functionally extinct in the wild. There are about 100 South China tigers left in captivity, of which Stuart Bray has 19 in his reserve in South Africa (Laohu Valley Reserve). 

b3 - Mods

As Varty also features in the interview, you could move a copy of this post (or the interview) to the Varty thread. If that's not possible, you could write a post in the Varty thread informing readers about this post.
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China Betty Offline
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(03-15-2017, 03:50 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(03-15-2017, 03:24 PM)Betty Wrote: Chengdu Zoo 
South China tiger.


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
I have two questions:
1. Exactly how many Chinese tigers are there presently (in captivity of course) left!?

2. And what has become of that much lauded, Laohu Valley based "Reintroduction Programme"...?? Weird
Any latest news or info?!...

China Zoo currently only 51 South China tigers, these South China tigers because of the high degree of inbreeding and long-term captive in the cage, they began to appear some signs of degradation, the of the body than the previous capture of wild South China tiger was significantly smaller, Constitution decline, The higher the chance of getting sick.

http://www.envir.gov.cn/info/np/file.asp...2-19-4.txt
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United States Greatearth Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-18-2017, 06:11 AM by Greatearth )

@Betty 
So do you think South china tiger(t. amoyensis) would go extinct? I am worry about Asiatic cheetah more than South china tiger. I heard there's only 1 female Asiatic cheetah left in wild last year.

I don't know how many first generations of the South china tigers were in zoo. The Siberian tiger(t. altaica), the Asiatic lion, today's cheetah also suffered from horrible inbreeding, but they are actually doing ok (Population). Cheetah survived from the extinction long before the human civilization.
I heard that there is NO pure South china tiger anymore. All of the South china tiger has the Indochinese tiger's genes. (But I think this was already happened long before when tiger subspeices could move to other subspecies range map during early 1900s) 
I've been asked to my professor about how to increase gene pool when population suffered from horrible bottleneck. I think it's extremely difficult to increase gene pool of the mammals from our current knowledge of genetic and bio-technique these days.

I've studied advanced genetic courses.. My professor told me that today's Native Americans were came from the 70s individuals crossing Beringia several ten thousand years ago after studying their genome. They probably faced with huge inbreeding, but Native Americans already spread entire North and South Americas before 1500. I guess big cats and other endangered animals could survive too. Unless the population was under 5.

I am pretty sure South china tiger could survive if they released in wild If there is no human distraction. I feed street cats sometimes (some of them were kept in school since they were babies). They are used to me and they always beg to me for food. But they know how to catch smaller birds and squirrels by itself. They've never learned how to catch animals from their mom (since it was rasied by human when they were young). But they know how to survive (All of you guys know that house cat is a pest since they are destroying the native wildlife in island and wiping out the smaller animals). So how about the tigers? I guess their behavior might be different from past. But I am pretty sure tigers could survive. The problem is that tiger is a large predator. They need a large space and require the plenty food. They can get easily influenced by small human activities. 


What I heard from my international student friends from China and India.. India and China has a huge human population. So you can find bunch of ignorant, rude, and uneducated people (like ghettos) in those 2 countries. Because there are many poor people in India and China and many poor people can't receive standard education. Obviously, these people are usually becoming the poachers and involving in black markets. 
Difference between those 2 countries are Indian generally don't hurt animals like Chinese because of their Hindu religion. That's why tiger and other endangered animals could survive in India. Chinese traditional medicine also increased the problems along with development and war. Many of South east asian countries like Vietnam influenced on Chinese culture since several thousands years ago. So they also using the traditional medicine just like Chinese. 
I don't know this is true, but I heard something like Mao hated tigers. Because he could have been killed by tiger when he was a young. 
The same for Bhutan, Bhutan generally never hurt their animal since it is deep buddhist country. That's why I like Buddhism and Hindu religions more than barbaric Christianity and Islam religions who used to fighitng and killing other people and animals all the time since from the past. And there is human no birth contorl in Christianity and Islam. Like how many conservative Christians are against with global warming, evolution, and science. Many Christianity American and Western European Christians are going to Africa for trophy hunting and they think human is superior than animals because human was created by god's image.

Western countries like Europe (Western European) and North America were the highest consuming of ivory and fur until 1970s. They've devastated the nature first. Now, Asia and Africa are finishing it. Mostly, the China. Actually, the Vietnam is worse as the China. So does Tawian and other South east Asian countries. But media is just keep pointing on China since China is controlling the economy. Seems like China is changing. Still, I think China don't really care about other animals much as panda bear. (I am pretty sure they care about their South china tiger, but not as panda). The problem is that panda costs MORE money to preserve than any other animals. Xi Jinping gave 2 Panda bears to Korea in 2014, but it costs like 10 billion dollars to taking care those 2 Panda bear s. It's like wasting the money. I hope China cares about the other animals like rhino, elephant, and big cats just like the panda. The same for other Asian, African, Central and South American countries.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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PANTHERA TIGRIS AMOYENSIS - C

c1 - Paper about rewilding the South China tiger

I found this some time ago. Although it has no date, it was published after 2010. It's a nice summary about the situation in, say, 2010-2012. Although the remaining 100 captive South China tigers feature, the authors wrote that it is possible that some wild tigers still exist. Another Chinese biologist, about 10 years ago, wrote he was sure China still had a few wild tigers. Will get back to that one.

Here's the paper ('Rewilding the South China Tiger') from 'Save China's Tigers'. Yamaguchi was involved:      
 


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*This image is copyright of its original author
 

c2 - Photograph of a South China tiger shot in 1956

This photograph was recently posted in this thread by 'Betty'. I'm not sure, but I thought I saw 1956.

Although V. Mazak's ('Der Tiger', 1983) information on the size of the South China tiger seems quite accurate, I found reports I consider reliable about male tigers exceeding the upper limit of Mazak's evaluation (386 pounds or 175 kg.). The tiger in the photograph below could have been quite close:
   


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India Rishi Online
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Tongue  ( This post was last modified: 03-27-2017, 06:43 PM by Rishi )


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You could always google the questio!!!..
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: Yesterday, 07:26 AM by peter )

PANTHERA TIGRIS AMOYENSIS - D

d1 - The government-sponsored war on wild animals in China

I'm preparing a number of longish posts on the period 1945-1970 in central and southeastern China. In order to be able to get the picture straight, I need to translate the articles I read in a number of Chinese newspapers and magazins. I don't mean I need to translate them myself. The problem is in the translations in that they are not, ehh, perfect. There's no other option but to translate the translations, if you know what I mean.

There's one story that stands out. It's based on documents from the period 1950-1970. Some of the people, or their (grand)children that featured were interviewed. It's quite a story that happened in the 1950-ties. If I hadn't read the articles, I would have dismissed it out of hand. But it really happened and I will do a series of posts on it. 

Before I'm ready, I will do a few posts on the South China tiger. They can be considered as a preparation. In this post, you'll find a bit more on Hunan province. I added a link to a book I never heard of as well. I read a part and think it's very interesting. I'll start with the book. 

d2 - 'Tiger Chase'

This book was written by Andrew McDermott and published in 2002. It's well-written, very informative and also has a lot of suspense. A must-read for anyone interested in tigers in China:

https://books.google.nl/books?id=auMigds...an&f=false

d3 - Hunan

The story mentioned above (see d1) happened in Hunan Province. Before I'll post the story, I'll post a few maps. I know you're not that interested, but the maps are vital to understand the story.

d3.1 - Hunan Province

Here's a map of China posted before. The Province in red is not Hunan, but Shanxi. Hunan Province is east of Guizhou and Sichuan, south of Hubei, west of Jiangxi and north of Guangxi and Guangdong. It's right in the heart of southeast China and it had many tigers half a century ago:  


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d3.2 - Vegetation zones 

Hunan is situated in the zone that has subtropical evergreen broadleaf forest:


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d3.3 - Climate

Hunan is situated in the Cfa-zone (humid subtropical):


*This image is copyright of its original author

        
d3.4 - Topography

Hunan is situated east of the Tibetan Plateau. Most parts are very elevated and not suited for agriculture. The capital is Changsha. This city now has over 6 million inhabitants:    


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United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
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The most western population of the South China tiger back in the 17-18th century was found in the northeastern part of the Tibetan plateau.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...8214006867
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: Yesterday, 07:25 AM by peter )

PANTHERA TIGRIS AMOYENSIS - E

e1 - The last tiger of the Yuelu Mountains

If you go to the last map in the previous post on Panthera tigris amoyensis (D), you'll find the Yuelu Mountains just west of the capital Changsha. In 1955, two tigers created panic when they crossed the Xiangjiang (a river just west of Shangsha, I think) and were seen near the busy West Lake Bridge. 

One of the two was shot by soldiers. This was the last tiger from the Yuelu Mountains. Its remains are preserved in the Hunan Normal University.

More information about the hunt, the soldiers and the two tigers can be found in one of the links provided by poster 'Betty' in a long post about the South China tiger on the previous page (post 1,140):

http://www.changsha.cn/picnews/200711/t2...767894.htm

Most of my posts are based on (the links in) post 1,140. Thanks again, Betty! 

Here's the last tiger from the Yuelu Mountains:


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If you want to know more, visit the link in post 1,140. The story in 'The Star Online' (from 23-11-2007) also has a photograph of the soldiers who shot the tiger.
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United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
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( This post was last modified: Yesterday, 07:32 AM by GrizzlyClaws )

This means that the Caspian tigers prior their extinction didn't get genetically isolated from other tiger subspecies for very long.

Sometimes all Mainland tiger subspecies were lumped into one single category could be an interpretation that they always had some degree of genetic exchange before the human interference and artificial isolation.
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